In this Real Vision exclusive, Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman sits down with Vincent Catalano of Stuyvesant Capital Management to discuss how coronavirus has shattered the global economy, and the different tools available to policymakers in this unprecedented crisis. Krugman and Catalano struggle to find historical analogues, and debate whether the recovery will be “V-shaped” (i.e quick) or “U-shaped” (slow) or even “L-shaped” (indefinite). Krugman analyzes these issues from the framework of his book, Arguing with Zombies: Economics, Politics, and the Fight for a Better Future, in which he identifies an enduring theme of political economy: why “bad” ideas continue to gain political influence despite evidence that they don’t work.