Everything Changes Around Gold

Published on
July 17th, 2017
68 minutes

Everything Changes Around Gold

Gold ·
Featuring Dan Oliver Jr.

Published on: July 17th, 2017 • Duration: 68 minutes

Dan Oliver of Myrmikan Capital runs a highly successful small cap gold fund and his deep, historical understanding of money and gold’s inherent stability at the center of the capitalist financial system is fascinating in the context of today’s credit bubble. In this highly requested interview with Grant Williams, Dan also provides tremendous insight into the psychology of speculating in the junior gold mining space. Filmed on June 29, 2017, in New York.


  • ER
    Edward R.
    17 July 2017 @ 20:46
    Great Historical Perspective,,, I'll need to listen again!! Their was no mention of crypto currencies which I find curious
    • js
      jacob s.
      18 July 2017 @ 00:08
    • TH
      Thomas H.
      18 July 2017 @ 11:35
      Crypto currencies are just another form of paper money. What are they backed by?
    • O_
      Oscar _.
      18 July 2017 @ 14:00
      digital scarcity
    • O_
      Oscar _.
      18 July 2017 @ 14:02
      *Bitcoin is backed by digital scarcity. it is impossible to forge
    • ns
      niall s.
      19 July 2017 @ 09:04
      Its backed my an ample supply of greater fools at present .
    • EF
      Eric F.
      24 December 2017 @ 20:32
      Digital scarcity - what like the ability to fork and double the amount of available assets at the flick of a switch? Digital scarcity is an oxymoron.
    • RR
      Roberto R.
      27 July 2020 @ 01:54
      Dog poop is scarce in that there is a limited supply. Doesnt mean it has value... Scarcity does not impute value, this is a common fallacy in economics.
  • BB
    Bart B.
    19 August 2019 @ 17:45
    Great stalk! Love the Anecdote about Tacitus. Do not fully understand the lower commodity prices in gold trend yet. Does anyone want to explain?😄
  • ra
    ryan a.
    3 January 2019 @ 01:57
    In 2011 he was down -21%, -16%, -63%, -11%, -19%, then up 289% in 2016... Yikes
  • my
    markettaker y.
    17 August 2018 @ 03:56
    So impressed. Real vision has done it again. This should be in the top ten rv picks.
  • PG
    Paul G.
    7 June 2018 @ 06:03
    would be great for RV to leave a link to expert being interviewed webpage/ blog/ twitter etc in the info outlining interivew/vid
  • DR
    Daniel R.
    27 February 2018 @ 23:52
  • DL
    Dan L.
    18 January 2018 @ 14:54
    This interview was released on my birthday! The part at 15:00 where he talks about Tacitus writing 33AD "Emperor Tiberius...100 million sesterces were to be taken from the imperial treasury and distributed among reliable bankers, to be loaned to the neediest debtors" .... goosebumps. Stuff is fascinating. People act like what happens in the present has never happened before - but its happened since the beginning of time and it happens over and over again!
  • KL
    Kathlyn L.
    15 January 2018 @ 05:59
    Lacy Hunt please
  • AM
    Amit M.
    17 July 2017 @ 18:04
    This guy is a theoretical story teller. Waste of time to anyone with few years of experience in market. He's classic reason why GDXJ exists.
    • WS
      William S.
      17 July 2017 @ 22:33
      What does this even mean? "A theoretical story teller"? One of the reasons I am instinctively drawn to gold is the arrogant incoherence of those who despise and disparage it.
    • MS
      Matt S.
      18 July 2017 @ 13:20
      You think he doesn't have a "few years in the market" Amit? ;)
    • EF
      Eric F.
      24 December 2017 @ 20:34
      Bet you can't back that statement up with facts Amit.
  • DW
    Daniel W.
    18 July 2017 @ 13:55
    I admit I am a far less sophisticated investor than all the interview guests here. However, all the "gold experts" I have seen so far basically say that at one point in time it will be useful to own gold, however they do not know WHEN that is, for HOW LONG that will be, at what PRICE to get IN and at what price to get OUT. What does that tell us about "gold experts"?
    • AH
      A H.
      18 July 2017 @ 15:11
      You may want to consult a fortune teller with a crystal ball if you want a road map of the future. If you're looking for answers of when to trade your fiat dollars for gold then you have missed the point of the entire interview.
    • EK
      Emil K.
      18 July 2017 @ 20:38
      I agree with Daniel W. here that the experts speaking about gold are offering very poor trade advice, which is what I believe Daniel W. is after. If I were to generalize what they are saying it is that gold is not a trade, therefore their trade advice is poor by definition. It seems what they're saying is that you should have a min and max allocation to gold. The minimum is definitely not zero and, generally speaking, it appears we all should be moving our allocation upwards towards whatever that maximum is.
    • JH
      Janet H.
      18 July 2017 @ 22:24
      Gold has never gone to zero and 1 oz still buys a mans suit!
    • LC
      Liliana C.
      19 July 2017 @ 06:12
      If this is Daniel Want, could you address/answer the excellent questions you pose via a new interview or video? That would be hugely insightful!
    • EF
      Eric F.
      24 December 2017 @ 20:30
      Daniel, there's a big difference between an expert and someone who can tell the future (hint: the latter does not exist). Stop looking for fishes, start looking for fishing poles.
  • DY
    Dmytro Y.
    25 July 2017 @ 05:01
    this interview stops short of any practical advise or tradable ideas. Have to put negative review this time unfortunately. "partners' of RVTV expect something better, more actionable, more hard data. The interview wtih Rhona O'Connel and their report is much much better quality and info!
    • EF
      Eric F.
      24 December 2017 @ 20:23
      If you didn't get advice out of this I don't know what to say. It educated me on both the place of and timing to hold gold. Not everything has to be a boiled down call to action.
  • bs
    bob s.
    23 November 2017 @ 13:52
    The most impressive back and forth about this global mess in relation to gold's role and history and the range of outcomes to conclude this can kicking that I have ever heard. Well done!
  • NS
    Niek S.
    23 September 2017 @ 14:46
    What is the name of the Duke that wrote in his memoir about the Mississippi bubble? Hope someone got that
  • BB
    Bojo B.
    12 August 2017 @ 17:24
    that was brilliant!
  • Sv
    Sid v.
    11 August 2017 @ 14:45
    every once in a while one of these interviews is beyond value, this is one of them. Thanks
  • RJ
    Russ J.
    30 July 2017 @ 22:30
    How fantastically in-depth was that? Thank you. Precisely why i subscribe to RV.
  • tW
    tgwtom W.
    30 July 2017 @ 19:20
    Second lisren.Beautiful conversation.
  • JN
    Jill N.
    29 July 2017 @ 23:43
    Absolutely Brilliant Grant !! one of your best ever , look forward to Daniel's return...
  • JC
    Justin C.
    24 July 2017 @ 18:42
    Maybe the best "gold" interview I've heard on RV. I cannot believe I have not heard about Dan until now, but I will closely follow him going forward. Well done Grant!
  • WM
    Will M.
    23 July 2017 @ 13:17
    Great discussion. For me it is simply history, and the human condition. Your paper money is proven to depreciate and occasionally that rate of depreciation is very high, Once in a couple of generations it is catastrophic. Gold goes up and down and doesn't give you any interest, costs you to hold unless you do it at home, so why hold it? I read in a great little book called "SWAG" the following quote.......“Gold is a zero coupon , perpetual, irredeemable bond. With no credit risk. With no counterparty risk. Issued by God. That why I own it. In todays world everything else seems uncertain and there is so much debt, demographics in the West + Russia and Japan, is on the wrong path. So many promises have been made on pensions and social security. New nationalist threats are arising all the time. Whats wrong with having some gold as an alternative of real money? I have my price floor and we are not a million miles from it, but if i have to take a 10% loss I will gladly take it. The next bust will not be like the last one. At what point will investors and savers say "The FED tried and failed last time...I will not trust them again!" and look to hold some gold (and silver).
  • HJ
    Harry J.
    22 July 2017 @ 20:50
    Grant, I know you'll resist this but with all you do to speak of Gold. How about predicting a new top in gold price and likely time???
  • BG
    Brad G.
    22 July 2017 @ 14:57
    One of the most valuable aspects of real vision to me is the effort taken to speak with people that have their opinions on the big picture and where they operate within the scope. We're all so busy that it is easy to stray from the big direction shifts sometimes. Great interview.
  • HK
    H K.
    22 July 2017 @ 03:34
    Grant great job! My only complaint is that this interview did not last longer.
  • RT
    Randall T.
    21 July 2017 @ 06:26
    Definitely have Dan Oliver again. I heard him at a conference in New York over a year ago, and have read his monthly newsletter ever since. A good man, well spoken, with amazing knowledge and wisdom.
  • RC
    Ryan C.
    21 July 2017 @ 04:56
    What a fantastic interview. Another example that some of the smartest thinkers have a deep appreciation for history and are voracious readers. Good lessons for everyone.
  • AE
    Alex E.
    21 July 2017 @ 02:59
    I've noticed in the last 6 interviews that one of the cameras being used to make the video has a very poor quality in regards to the picture. Can you RVTV guys fix this? I also notice that the over-the-shoulder shots capture too much of the adjacent person's head which somewhat obscures the frame and when someone scratches their head or adjusts their position by shifting into the camera's arc of view, the action completely obscures the viewer's view. Highly annoying... As for the interview, as usual, great stuff!! More, please.
  • CD
    Colin D.
    20 July 2017 @ 07:23
    Great interview.
  • TF
    Terry F.
    20 July 2017 @ 06:39
    Excellent interview. Really enjoyed it. Dan Oliver addressed many of the concepts of the gold as money/commodity from beginning to end. This is one of the interviews where I want to read the transcript and apply some careful thought to many of the things said in this program. Thank you Grant for another home run.
  • SJ
    Stephen J.
    19 July 2017 @ 22:37
    One of the best interviews yet, really enjoyed the interaction.
  • PM
    Patrick M.
    18 July 2017 @ 16:45
    you had me at "Pyramids"......
    • EK
      Emil K.
      18 July 2017 @ 20:42
      Dan is only the second person I've heard compare China's build out to Pharaonic Egypt. The first was Anne Stevenson-Yang. Hopefully she'll grace these airwaves soon.
    • DB
      David B.
      19 July 2017 @ 21:31
      Can you wait a week ? ;)
  • MH
    Mark H.
    19 July 2017 @ 21:25
    How do you understand politics, government, or anything if you don’t understand this conversation? Excellent.
  • SS
    Steven S.
    19 July 2017 @ 17:10
    I've worked in Gold mines, open pit & underground. I was waiting to hear a little about some win/loss stories of investing in gold mines. But I thought there is only about 20 years of global gold mining reserves to be mined out. But it was great to remember about the gold mine safety teams going around handing out safety slips to some employees.
  • MB
    Mike B.
    19 July 2017 @ 13:07
    I was expecting more!
  • ZH
    Zack H.
    19 July 2017 @ 09:24
    Negative Beta aspect of Gold for portfolio rebalancing is a big take away with this interview. really outside of gold as insurance against fiat currencies that is what gold does as investment.
  • BH
    Ben H.
    19 July 2017 @ 06:11
    Very solid on the history and plumbing of what makes the gold mkt flow within the monetary system... just would like to have heard more on portfolio construction and which companies he might have passion for otherwise his best in class views on the gold price could just be traded in GDXJ?
  • LC
    Liliana C.
    19 July 2017 @ 06:06
    If this is Daniel Want, could you address all your excellent questions in a new interview /video? That would be hugely insightful!
    • LC
      Liliana C.
      19 July 2017 @ 06:10
      I meant this to be reply to Daniel Web below.
  • SG
    Sherman G.
    18 July 2017 @ 22:38
    Invaluable! Thanks for this interview. Dan kept it simple. My only suggestion for improvement would be that he maintain his voice volume at the end of his sentences - sometimes he trails off and I had to rewind to get his point. But I would value this presentation even if he stuttered :)
  • KA
    Kelly A.
    18 July 2017 @ 22:15
    He mentions Langone's question to Druckenmueller about a $1BB loss: What did you learn? D's reply: "Nothing." Well, sure i like the pyramids/China example --and all that history was entertaining, but i didn't learn anything new about buying/hold gold that i didn't already learn from other RV experts. I guess that's okay because the message to have some gold insurance is still a good one. Seemed like a long way to get there, though.
  • KS
    Kathleen S.
    18 July 2017 @ 18:14
  • TS
    Thomas S.
    18 July 2017 @ 15:21
    Finally! Someone who understands our economic condition with the overlay of historical perspective. His most profound statement - "what we have today is not capitalism." Hear, hear. What we have today would be more appropriately called creditism, a term possibly coined by Richard Duncan, a man who understands the problem (but who, unfortunately, believes more debt is the solution). This system running on credit, or debt, rather than capital, or savings, is a marauding beast, a beast system that devours all but those who already posses leverageable assets. By continuing to support it we in the financial profession sow the seeds of our own demise, poison the well, cook the goose, tie the noose; whatever the metaphor, it's suicide.
  • TS
    Tim S.
    18 July 2017 @ 14:55
    Very enjoyable. Love me my gold porn. :-)
  • us
    ujjwal s.
    18 July 2017 @ 13:57
    if anyone has created list of books he mentions on interview, it will be great.
  • GF
    George F.
    17 July 2017 @ 19:34
    Can gold be 'disrupted'?
    • AT
      Andrew T.
      17 July 2017 @ 22:52
      I think in a sense that you can start by looking to yourself to answer that question. Does physical gold mean anything special to you?
    • MS
      Matt S.
      18 July 2017 @ 13:22
      disruption is just one of these current buzzwords - it'll be forgotten in a year or two as a passing fad...
    • GF
      George F.
      18 July 2017 @ 13:45
      "just one of these current buzzwords" I think Amazon, Shale, Uber, AirBnB are real. The question is gold susceptible like say salt was.
  • PU
    Peter U.
    17 July 2017 @ 16:36
    is it me, or has the video quality gone down? Filming issue? Or deliberate?
    • MS
      Matt S.
      18 July 2017 @ 13:18
      i've seen it on another video - they must have shot a few at the same time and had some setting wrong on the camera which needed to be fixed in post-production - I'm sure it's been resolved now for future videos
  • SW
    Scott W.
    18 July 2017 @ 11:36
    I love this guy! Great interview. And he's gone a heck of a job quarterbacining the NY Giants as well.
  • RA
    Ricardo A.
    18 July 2017 @ 05:00
  • JT
    Jonathan T.
    18 July 2017 @ 04:30
    I enjoyed this thoroughly. It would be very nice to see an interview with Mike Maloney, who has excellent grasp of what money truly is, and the understanding of money throughout history.
  • AF
    Alex F.
    18 July 2017 @ 04:03
    Excellent insights on gold. I now have a totally different perspective.
  • PR
    Paolo R.
    18 July 2017 @ 02:38
  • JV
    Jason V.
    18 July 2017 @ 02:22
    Wow. What an intellect. Encyclopedic knowledge, and a memory to match. And all distilled with great clarity and reason. Fascinating discussion. Look forward to hearing much more from Dan.
  • GG
    Gerald G.
    18 July 2017 @ 01:55
    VERY GOOD! For once I don't have a single critisicm ;^) I will say that I was a little bit put off by the the fact that Mr. Oliver actually spent part of his life making stuffed animals but... I was quickly won over by the amazingly coherent historical perspective he gave to his thesis.
  • js
    jacob s.
    18 July 2017 @ 00:22
    great stuff
  • db
    don b.
    17 July 2017 @ 21:42
    I opened an account with Myrmikan Gold several months ago and consider Dan the best writer that I follow. Ironically I heard about Dan on Real Vision TV from Paul Mylchreest & have really enjoyed reading Dan's articles. Thank you for a great interview guys and thank you Grant for making this happen.
  • SC
    Shane C.
    17 July 2017 @ 21:37
    Grant great interview- "The barbarous relic" history won't judge Keynes well on that call.
  • DS
    David S.
    17 July 2017 @ 21:23
    Solid interview. A 5% allocation to gold will not protect any portfolio. It is interesting, however, that gold and gold miners may fall initially with the market. That is the time to have plenty of cash to purchase gold and gold miners before they accelerate upward. Cash may be a key to investing in gold. DLS
  • RS
    Roger S.
    17 July 2017 @ 20:59
    Great interview and great history lesson
  • M.
    Milton .. | Founder
    17 July 2017 @ 17:24
    Milton here - apologies on the grain on the camera. At the time Grant was experimenting with inter-dimensional travel to get between shoots, and the resulting electrical disturbance left our cameras a bit scrambled. You wouldn't believe how many static dryer sheets we had to use to get him back to normal, but he's back from being ionic to simply being ironic. Shouldn't be a problem in the future. -- your pal Milty
    • DS
      David S.
      17 July 2017 @ 20:56
      I was listening and did not notice. Thanks for working so hard. Love the transcripts also. DLS
  • JH
    Jesse H.
    17 July 2017 @ 20:06
    Fantastic interview - and this guy is brilliant. Super sharp and deep knowledge of history. Grant's engaging interviewing style on display beautifully here. Thoroughly enjoyed this one!
  • FB
    Fred B.
    17 July 2017 @ 19:18
    Great interview ! Please bring Dan Oliver back on again!
  • CC
    Charnes C.
    17 July 2017 @ 19:02
    Good to hear...humility and admitting not always right. Living thru the tough holding period myself waiting for when gold and miners would take off.
  • VS
    Victor S. | Contributor
    17 July 2017 @ 18:55
    A rare man who understands gold from all dimensions. Thank you .
  • VS
    Victor S. | Contributor
    17 July 2017 @ 18:55
    A rare man who understands gold from all dimensions. Thank you .
  • PU
    Peter U.
    17 July 2017 @ 17:48
  • HJ
    Harry J.
    17 July 2017 @ 17:46
    The fact that I'm old and have gold leads me to the question "the future price of gold and therefore do I have enough it insure a life style I want to insure?"
  • PU
    Peter U.
    17 July 2017 @ 16:38
    Video quality when the camera is on Grant is poor; while when on the interviewee is good. Why?
    • DM
      Daniel M.
      17 July 2017 @ 16:48
      I think the camera on Grant is on ISO 64000000000000000000000000000000
  • EL
    Elizabeth L.
    17 July 2017 @ 16:24
    I also found this conversation invaluable. Thanks Grant and Dan.