Grant Williams in Conversation with Anthony Deden: Part I

Published on
February 16th, 2018
71 minutes

Grant Williams in Conversation with Anthony Deden: Part I

Grant Williams ·
Featuring Grant Williams

Published on: February 16th, 2018 • Duration: 71 minutes

The first part of this first-ever interview with Tony Deden, chairman of Edelweiss Holdings. Tony's focus on scarcity and endurance in his investment portfolio and the stewardship of what he thinks of as irreplaceable capital has led him to reinvent the discipline of value investing. Tony’s thoughtful, patient approach to the allocation of his investors' capital has yielded exceptional returns – and his disciplined investment philosophy offers an eye-opening insight into many of the problems inherent in the modern-day asset management business. Filmed January 18th-20th, 2018 in Grindelwald, Switzerland.


  • AW
    Aaron W.
    8 March 2020 @ 14:29
    Extraordinary. Possibly the best finance video of all time.
  • EH
    Erik H.
    14 February 2020 @ 21:20
    So does anyone know if he listed his fund on the stock market?
  • SP
    Sat P.
    25 September 2019 @ 21:26
    52:53 - "The Great Broom Theory" - this was a brilliantly simple way to find the very highest quality publicly listed stocks in the Anglosphere
  • DR
    Dick R.
    12 March 2019 @ 06:00
    I'm sure I'd be more impressed with his morality if he weren't into tobacco stocks. That's making money off of murder, and there's nothing high-minded about that.
  • RK
    Robert K.
    20 February 2019 @ 23:26
    amazing stuff
  • MS
    Matt S.
    23 December 2018 @ 23:02
    Wise words.... will watch Pt 2 tomorrow! All these guys live in such awesome locations!
  • LG
    Leonard G.
    30 October 2018 @ 08:18
    Fascinating conversation. Grant, can you interview Nasim Taleb next, to follow up on Tony's reference to anti-fragility?
  • ME
    Marc E.
    28 October 2018 @ 02:26
    Grant, thank you for bringing us this pair of interviews with Anthony. I have watched them repeatedly and they have been the most profound discussions I’ve ever heard. Thank you again, so much. Anthony’s philosophy has turned my mind upside-down.
  • PV
    Paul V.
    7 October 2018 @ 19:00
    My favorite RV interview. Totally altered my thinking. Made me question the assumptions in my process.
  • DC
    D C.
    26 September 2018 @ 19:29
    But what about the results? Similar to SP or MSCI Global Consumer Staple Index Tony is a great communicator and has that rare mix of sophisticated but folksy charm about him. However, when I dug into his performance, unfortunately it's rather pedestrian. As his focus is primarily on consumer staple stocks, using global consumer staple indices such as S&P or MSCI, render his results within the range since 2001 inception. In the presentation above, he uses MSCI World Index as benchmark, but consumer staple is clearly more relevant, and interestingly enough the good ole tried and true consumer staple stocks have outpeformed the total world index by a fair margin. So Tony's alpha comes predominantly in being invested in global consumer staples. And if you want to mimic those returns just buy the ETF!
    • AN
      Ashley N.
      4 October 2018 @ 12:17
      What you're missing completely in this analysis is he did this while being invested only 50-70% in equities at any given time. Consumer Staples indices are by definition fully invested and have survivorship bias.
  • JS
    John S.
    23 August 2018 @ 00:56
    So much wisdom
  • DS
    Darryl S.
    28 June 2018 @ 12:24
    Probably an odd comment when talking about finance. But what a lovely man he is.
  • DC
    Darren C.
    25 June 2018 @ 02:48
    This old world wisdom is scarce, unfortunately. It is like getting a life lesson from your grand-father. Oh, and the Swiss scenery is gorgeous.
  • BH
    Brian H.
    1 May 2018 @ 23:55
    This was by far the best interview I have watched on Real Vision. I have been a subscriber since near the beginning as well.
  • YB
    Yuriy B.
    23 March 2018 @ 04:27
    This interview alone is probably worth half-a-year's worth of a Real Vision subscription. Deden just blows my mind to pieces.
  • LK
    Lisa K.
    22 February 2018 @ 21:45
    Tony's speech in 2009 ""
    • JV
      Jason V.
      25 February 2018 @ 08:48
      Thank you, Lisa. Much appreciated.
    • JT
      Jake T.
      18 March 2018 @ 21:01
      Yes, thank you. I really enjoy reading and/or listening to anything he has to say.
  • VP
    Vincent P.
    3 March 2018 @ 20:00
    Honored to be the 1,000th Thumbs Up! Going to Part II.
  • IP
    IDA P.
    28 February 2018 @ 12:22
    this interview is a paradox
    • IP
      IDA P.
      28 February 2018 @ 12:25
      in the sense that we are watching an independent channel to get independent opinions, and he states that to remain mentally clear and independent you must not speak with financial channels, etc.
  • CS
    Christian S.
    27 February 2018 @ 21:00
  • JM
    Justin M.
    25 February 2018 @ 17:05
    Brilliant. One of my favorite interviews so far. Mr. Deden has a remarkable talent for communicating and creating a framework upon the important principles that endure.
  • JA
    John A.
    23 February 2018 @ 11:52
    What a breath of fresh mountain air.
  • IL
    Ian L.
    16 February 2018 @ 14:44
    Extraordinary interview. So much money in the world is being invested so badly it is just refreshing to find someone trying to do the right thing. I am so envious that he has found clients who support his vision and are not just after making a fast buck. Look forward to part 2.
    • SA
      Scott A.
      21 February 2018 @ 01:12
      First of all, I loved the interview and DH was spot on. But to be honest, a momentum based adviser that really believes in FANG stocks (and the Fed) would have generated his clients with a far higher return (my guess) over the past 3-4 years. I guess my point is "So much money in the world is being invested so badly" is a pretty broad statement. Is our momentum adviser, who desires to maximize his clients returns somehow "less worthy"?
    • JH
      J H.
      22 February 2018 @ 09:32
      Making gains for 999 years to lose it all on the 1000th makes you famous and popular but it doesn't grant you survival. The dinosaurs were big and impressive but only the versatile birds and mice survived the extinction event (big simplification). You don't need to hide at the bottom of the ocean and avoid evolving like people the way people consider nautiluses, but you can have things in moderation.
  • GO
    Gary O.
    22 February 2018 @ 05:03
    So can we find the other two wise men?
  • AB
    AJ B.
    21 February 2018 @ 19:41
    Setting a reminder to listen to this each year for the rest of my life.
  • RD
    RP D.
    20 February 2018 @ 21:49
    Fantastic content. Well done Grant!
  • DC
    Douglas C.
    20 February 2018 @ 20:36
    Great interview. This is why I subscribe.
  • TJ
    Terry J.
    20 February 2018 @ 13:39
    That was a priceless interview! I learnt so much, and can't wait to watch Part II. Incredible how you guys at RVTV just keep pushing the envelope! Thank you.
  • BN
    Brandon N.
    20 February 2018 @ 13:34
    Is there 12 or so viewers who dislike every piece? Not sure how someone could genuinely dislike this piece...unless of course they already know everything.
  • AE
    Alex E.
    20 February 2018 @ 04:51
    Mr. Deden reiterates what men such as Warren Buffett and Charles Munger have always said: Buy great companies at great prices then sit on your ass. How do you argue with such logic?
  • CS
    C S.
    17 February 2018 @ 12:08
    Why would business people sell a minority share of the business to a third party? (or are these publically listed shares?). Grant and Raoul decided to build their own business/capital, rather than invest in another business.
    • RT
      Rune T.
      17 February 2018 @ 13:30
      Pretty much what I was contemplating, at least healthy 100+ yrs old businesses should rarely need to raise such significant capital and as a business owner myself, with no desire nor need for credit/capital I'd hesitate to sell a 10% stake to a passive 3rd party. However I would like to be a passive 10% owner of healthy durable businesses - but don't see how unless they were raising significant capital or of course, traded publicly (as some of course do). Think of HSY etc.
    • TB
      Teresa B.
      19 February 2018 @ 11:51
      I was also contemplating the same question. It's ashame the question wasn't asked.
    • DS
      David S.
      19 February 2018 @ 20:29
      In a family business each new generation needs some cash. A regular business may be fully invested but need additional cash or additional expertise.. With Mr. Deden's reputation, long-term investment perspective, and track record they may just want him on the team. I would. DLS
    • PC
      Peter C.
      20 February 2018 @ 04:42
      he's kinda like a Buffet
  • SS
    Sam S.
    19 February 2018 @ 20:59
    In the words of Christopher Walken---WOW!
  • DG
    David G.
    17 February 2018 @ 19:50
    I made a journey down the rabbit hole many years ago, only to emerge later a changed man, but never heard the trip put quite so brilliantly (I'm paraphrasing from memory) as Tony put it: "Retrace your steps and stress test every assumption you've ever had and you'll come to the conclusion that everything the authorities have ever told you is wrong. I mean everything. It's all a lie."
    • DS
      David S.
      19 February 2018 @ 20:19
      Socrates, Descartes and Kant used the rabbit hole trick also. Mr. Deden came out of the rabbit hole with a whole new perspective. I hope you were successful also. DLS
  • PV
    Peter V.
    18 February 2018 @ 20:30
    Great work, Grant!!!
  • FG
    Fred G.
    18 February 2018 @ 18:35
    I am unable to say this better than DH. This was a brilliant interview of a brilliant man. Well done, Grant! And thank you, Anthony Deden for agreeing to share your wisdom and insights!
  • TH
    Timo H.
    18 February 2018 @ 07:02
    Wisdom just got a face.
  • MN
    Maverick N.
    18 February 2018 @ 04:12
    Phenomenal interview!! Unadulterated wisdom. Hats off to Grant to be able to ask the question and just let Anthony craft his answer using carefully measured and chosen words.
  • DT
    Douglas T.
    18 February 2018 @ 02:27
    I don't know how Grant does this, but he gets the most amazing people to just open up and give up the wisdom of their kingdom. Awesome. As an indivdual investor who has some 'savings', this idea of "don't f'ing loose it!" is central to my thinking. But it's far too easy to become seduced by that "easy" money to be made speculating. Siren songs eminating from every corner of the financial world. I think Anthony will keep me on the stright and narrow for some time.
  • CM
    C M.
    18 February 2018 @ 01:09
    First interview that I actually took notes. Don't know how anyone gave this a thumbs down. One of the best I have seen on RV. Congrats.
  • TR
    Thomas R.
    18 February 2018 @ 00:00
    One of the real distinguishing points on this interview was Grant’s patience, letting this man simply talk and share
  • RA
    Robert A.
    17 February 2018 @ 18:29
    I’m pretty sure that without Grant we would not have had this peek into this investment framework. But....there is just something about Grant....I spent one hour with him for breakfast and told him something that I’ve never told any other person....without him asking me....just thought it was something he might want to know. Grant, it’s a gift that you have. I do have two consuming questions though: Indeed, why would a company that fits into Tony’s framework want to sell him 1-10% of their business? Second, why indeed did Tony succumb to Grant’s repeated requests give the RV interview? Perhaps there is just something about getting to be a certain age that makes one want to pass along Wisdom even at the risk of giving up some hard won privacy. Or....maybe it’s just Grant’s gift. A personal big thank you to Raoul for the vision behind RV and for partnering with Grant Williams. I think we are all better off for their, and their team’s, efforts.
  • HS
    HANA S.
    17 February 2018 @ 16:44
    Absolutely brilliant interview
  • SL
    Stephen L.
    17 February 2018 @ 12:32
    "The idea of having X% in Industrials and Y% in [whatever else] ... doesn't make any sense. Any more than a car manufacturer thinks that he has to have X% of an automobile in glass and Y% in steel" Forced to invest during QE is "like going to a restaurant where everything on the menu is poisoned, but you're still hungry" Loads of gems in this interview. I've never had to mash the "rewind 15 seconds" button so often. Thanks RV!
  • S
    Sean .
    17 February 2018 @ 10:04
    Simply a brilliant interview. RV has outdone itself yet again
  • AM
    Alexander M.
    17 February 2018 @ 03:34
    Gave me the chills. This is art. Thank you and can’t wait for part 2
  • JH
    Jesse H.
    16 February 2018 @ 22:12
    Probably the best interview I have seen on RV. Fantastic - looking forward to Part II.
  • NS
    Nathaniel S.
    16 February 2018 @ 18:56
    This is why I joined RV in the beginning. Bravo! Absolutely phenomenal work. I love the production, the pacing, the editing and outside shots, as it all enhances the experience and brings the viewer in to more appreciate the depth of content. Anthony is remarkable and Grant's interview style gets us the gold. Thank you.
  • AS
    Alex S.
    16 February 2018 @ 17:46
    I've never heard of this man before but I am quickly growing fond of his views
  • SD
    S D.
    16 February 2018 @ 15:54 Has the FBI been suborned by a company that Cohodes has targeted? Great job by Bloomberg, but Grant Williams paved the way.....
    • GR
      Gregory R.
      16 February 2018 @ 17:06
      "different point of view"
  • GR
    Gregory R.
    16 February 2018 @ 16:52
    Thank you RV! This interview dragged me 'out of the box' and and as the song goes "I came away with a different point."
  • JL
    Johnny L.
    16 February 2018 @ 15:07
    This guy should be the keynote speaker at DAVOS and hired by all investment firms for a speech