The Body-Decision Feedback Loop

Published on
May 22nd, 2018
6 minutes

The Body-Decision Feedback Loop

Mental Game of Trading ·
Featuring Denise Shull

Published on: May 22nd, 2018 • Duration: 6 minutes

Master decision coach Denise Shull of the ReThink Group explains what really goes into making stressful decisions.


  • DS
    David S.
    23 May 2018 @ 07:48
    If you really want to know how to balance your cognitive and emotional mind to trade or live a better life, I suggest you understand Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics. The Nicomachean Ethics were written by Aristotle 2500 years ago to teach an Athenian youth how to understand temperance, courage, practical knowledge, and justice. It is apparent that justice is no longer in vogue, but to trade successfully you need temperance, courage and practical wisdom. I would suggest you listen to the Teaching Company's lecture 408 on the Nicomachean Ethics. It organized and presents a coherent message and is easier to understand than Aristotle's notes. This will give you the structure to think about the disjointed tidbits of knowledge that are presented here. If you do not wish to understand the Ethics, then ignorance is bliss. If you are offended, I am old and tired of the latest information presented as coherent. The prime example is the American Heart Association when they told everyone to eat hydrogenated margarine full of trans fatty acids instead of less butter – the latest scientific information at the time. Get a grip and get a perspective and understanding so that you can use these disjointed pieces of modern information coherently. I would suggest Ms. Shull read and understand Aristotle also. If she has read it, please read it again and listen to the lecture. It will make a major difference to you and your firm. If you do not give a client perspective some new firm will. I am not talking cursory, I am talking in depth understanding since your are advising paying clients. Sorry I am so blunt, but when you are old there is no time to be nice/nice. DLS
    • DS
      David S.
      2 June 2018 @ 21:44
      I should have made my comments more positive. Ms. Shull is intelligent and well educated. I still feel that the contents are not presented coherently. Cutting edge information needs a context, a home to be useful. DLS
  • SP
    Steve P.
    27 May 2018 @ 20:55
    Well, it comes with self awareness. Many don't recognize nausea as that 'gut-feeling'. Often, for some, anxiety or fear for survival is conscious and that gut-feeling kicks in.
  • RM
    Russell M.
    23 May 2018 @ 22:22
    She is on to something real. The mind and gut must come to agreement to put a position on. The gut senses first danger. I like Paul Totor Jones comment that everyday he tries to ‘get comfortable and feel happy’. I feel viscerally the positions at risk.
  • HO
    H2 O.
    22 May 2018 @ 15:15
    Read "Elastic: Flexible Thinking in a Time of Change" by L Mlowdinow and The Hour Between Dog and Wolf by J Coates. Please get either of these guys for RV!
    • AA
      Aymman A.
      23 May 2018 @ 20:34
      Yes, great books! Also Thinking Fast and Thinking Slow
  • FR
    Frank R.
    23 May 2018 @ 01:25
    I was a client of Denise's a couple of years ago. The change in my perceptions about trading were in areas that I hadn't even considered before. Total mindset overhaul. Worth every penny. Thanks Denise.
    • DS
      David S.
      23 May 2018 @ 20:02
      Thanks for your personal experience. It is important. DLS
  • AA
    Aymman A.
    22 May 2018 @ 14:57
    Good presentation but limited in usefulness. If Denise reads this blog then here is my question. I am a physician and I focus on human decision systems. The fact that thought, emotion and body are all connected is blindingly obvious to me. My question is if I get a “feeling” sometimes this contains great wisdom. My pattern recognition system has recognized somethin that is not right and is communicatin this to me as a bad feeling. George Soros would famously get back aches when he should get out of a loosing position. These feelings NEED TO BE LISTENED TO. Sometimes however a “feelin” is typical Freudian acting out of childish impulses. You want to be big and rich and successful. Your desire overcomes rational calculations. You get a “feeling” that you must do this (increase position size, remove hedges or whatever stupidity my mind thinks of). These feelings NEED TO BE IGNORED. 64000 dollar question: how do you differentiate between the two “feelings”. They are quite different. They mean different things. The English language does not have separate words for each. The distinction is VITAL.
    • CB
      Carl B.
      22 May 2018 @ 16:28
      Good point. What you describe sounds like the difference between intuition and bias.
    • DS
      Denise S. | Contributor
      22 May 2018 @ 17:27
      Well that's the whole point - anyone can learn the difference between the two. If one takes on the task of tending to, categorizing, articulating their different subjective experiences, they get better at recognizing the difference between integral and irrelevant feelings. It's a data set everyone can get better at understanding. I also talk extensively about this is my book (Market Mind Games) - the difference between intuition and a fractal feeling (like Freudian). Thanks for asking!
    • AA
      Aymman A.
      22 May 2018 @ 17:49
      Denise, Thank you for replying Denise. I personally would just love it if you just do a Real Vision talk on how to separate between the two “feelings”. If you have a structured way of separating “intuitive insight” from emotional garbage, I would love to listen to that talk. I am certain that all your listeners will appreciate it.
    • TQ
      Tom Q.
      23 May 2018 @ 16:22
      Agreed! Any further reading on distinguishing between "feelings" and "feelins"? (Don't know if you intended the spelling discrepancy but I like it nonetheless.)
  • TQ
    Tom Q.
    23 May 2018 @ 16:19
    It's important to listen to your feelings / emotions / gut-feel / physical sensations, but there's also a real danger of making the assumption that "the subconscious is always right." Yes, you should absolutely take care of your body with reasonable sleep, caffeine, nutrition, physical health, etc - but just because you have a gut feel doesn't mean you are wrong (or right) about something. Nerves - fear of consequences - fear itself - even simply *not wanting to do something* - are all gut feels, and that doesn't mean they're the correct path. It's semantic, but I think "hearing" your body and your gut feel is better than "listening" (implying you prioritize its advice higher than your logical faculties). You should train to hear your 'gut', to identify & weed out anything skewing the signal (have I eaten lately, drank enough water, slept enough, did I just come out of a heated argument), to reconcile against your 'head', and then decide.
  • EK
    Elad K.
    23 May 2018 @ 06:24
    Going to sleep right now.
  • Sv
    Sid v.
    23 May 2018 @ 02:58
    she is on the mark here
  • JM
    Jeff M.
    23 May 2018 @ 01:39
    Really like these. The impact of my own psychology / body - mind - emotion interaction on investment returns is undeniable.
  • FB
    Floyd B.
    22 May 2018 @ 22:16
    The link of poor health habits to poor performance I knew and understood. However the link between poor health habits and perception of! Highly recommend the book The Power of Full Engagement by Dr. Jim Loehr to learn more about the links she mentioned.
  • MH
    Marco H.
    22 May 2018 @ 19:36
    One of my favorite contributors. But why so short RV? She deserves a stage!
  • AH
    Andreas H.
    22 May 2018 @ 18:24
    more of it, much tooo short
  • SS
    Sophocles S.
    22 May 2018 @ 14:18
  • TB
    Tim B.
    22 May 2018 @ 13:46
    Denise hits it out of the park every time. Thanks Denise
  • VP
    Vincent P.
    22 May 2018 @ 13:28
    100% on point. Trust me.
  • Nv
    Nick v.
    22 May 2018 @ 09:21
    Thanks Denise. Very helpful