Comments
Transcript
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MKI have no problem with the economic and historical arguments presented for Bitcoin. I think the technology is fascinating and the idea revolutionary. Where I struggle is with the interface. The flip side of the recognition of currency is the acceptance of it. How does Bitcoin become user friendly enough that my grandmother would be able to use it to buy milk? And perhaps more importantly, given the unavoidability of human error, how do we protect her from catastrophic errors without an intermediary? Or , maybe the better question is how to we ever get her comfortable enough transacting in crypto. I admit, every time I submit a transaction to the network I have that “what if I screwed that up” thought. Every time. Thankfully, I only screwed up once.
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LFAnd this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2020/08/26/fidelity-president-files-for-new-bitcoin-fund/
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SRSuch a complete waste: https://www.neowin.net/news/global-power-consumption-by-bitcoin-mining-tops-7-gw-hashrates-at-120-ehs
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JBExcellent presenter!
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JSSpendid one ☝️
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SDHaving a hedge fund and no money to buy a quality headset? The audio makes it quite hard to follow.
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DSMy main worry with Bitcoin is that a super computer will break the encryption. People say this is impossible, but the impossible can happen. I sized a position hoping for the best. If Bitcoin is busted, it will not affect my lifestyle. If Bitcoin shoots the moon I will be happy. DLS
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EHScrolled through a few comments and I think a lot of people came to the conclusion that while bitcoin is scarce (although debatable due to its infinite divisibility), cryptocurrency is not only not scarce but actually infinite. As you say there are some early adopters, so if there were a more powerful late adopter why would they adopt the early adopted cryptocurrency which would transfer more wealth to the early adopters? What are the chances bitcoin is the last coin standing? Gold will not be replaced by a new faux gold or replacement metal so I still see it as much more scarce than bitcoin, until Elon is hyper-mining asteroids of course. Interesting discussion though does make you think, if bitcoin is the chosen one the upside is huge.
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MCI get the scarcity element narrative. I think we all get it. But as the French say "Je suis au bout de rouleau" with it (I'm being beaten with a rolling pin). Money supply has to be elastic for an economy to function. It's the flip side of scarcity and its economics 101. BTC doesn't solve for elasticity. Inelastic money supply is by its nature deflationary. We have got to stop conflating the definitions and functions of reserve assets, commodities and currencies. Not saying BTC price doesn't go to the moon because it can still function as a commodity. Its just frustrating listening to mixed messages and conflated ideas and belief systems.
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mBMore crypto
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VSNobody knows more about Bitcoin than Breedlove22. Prepare to have your mind blown...
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PWHe's definitely the best bitcoin philosopher out there!
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arFantastic presentation. It wasn't just about the superiority of BTC, but about how unsound money has so many far-reaching effects (a good redux of The Bitcoin Standard, which is one of the best 21st-century reads so far).
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MDInteresting discussion - in my opinion he's pushing the scarcity argument too far. It is a technological, arbitrary limit, which "can" be changed - it is accepted to be the limit. And there can be many "bitcoin" - ie coins. Divisibility is the same for any digital or fiat currency these days - a function of the calculation tools. Just keeping it real - not trying to bring down Bitcoin or detract from it.
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TKI liked the philosophical take, but agree with others below: the absolute scarcity of bitcoin is ensured for now, but not sure it can be guaranteed way into the future
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MCHow much do you bench Robert?
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NAif Bitcoin is infinitely divisible then it is not finite
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BKI really think Fiat Currency is a deeply rooted almost moral, spiritual cancer on the world. More Obesity, Addiction, Suicide, and divorce since fiat got off the gold standard. WTF? Maybe we are a little bit all over the map?
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NROn this topic, RV is becoming a bit tiresome of late. FEDUPBIZOWNER on Twitter says it best: ‘better get out before the government show drops. And save me your game theory. My partner has nukes authority and taxing power. Ride that horse as far as you can but u better know when to get off. Very simple.’ ‘When the music stops and the governments roll out their own crypto. Ur dead.’ ‘These people (cryptophiles) live in delusion world. I mean I get it. They hate the system and wanna f*&$ it over. So do I. But it ain’t gonna be as easy as “own bitcoin” pretty sure the powers that be already have a plan to eliminate it.’ Strong statements I grant you. My simile would be that crypto, to governments, is like all those 20th century left-wing rabble rousers the Soviets used to “encourage” to begin insurgencies. They were useful idiots. Once the Soviets had control all those revolutionary elements were liquidated. Crypto seems much the same. Governments are watching and taking copious notes but cryptophiles would do well to remember that when it come to seigniorage, government is especially ruthless.
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RDHow is bitcoin an absolute scarce asset when other currency blockchains can be invented to replace bitcoin. Can someone explain what happens to the price of bitcoin when every country (China, etc...) or Company (Facebook) invents their own currency blockchain. I don't understand why no one talks more about this risk???
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MDAt the 10min to go mark - No Way - the digital age is not going to bring money back to its roots. You think fiat is a cancer. We will have hyper-monetisation in the future (tokens). Well that's my view.
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LSSocialism is when the resources of a nation are owned by its people. Autocratic central management of an economy is called State Capitalism, which is what they had in the USSR, what they have in China, and what you have now in the USA. Or you could keep holding cold war propaganda as truth.
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TWAnother great crypto related video! I'm a firm believer in the future role of Bitcoin that Robert presents. It would be great to see a debate between experts that have opposite views on Bitcoin's potential and its use case.
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FHwould bitcoin still exist if the price of energy was 0?
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ALI'm curious of Robert thoughts about the inelasticity of Bitcoin
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DXRobonomics Web Services (RWS) token has a max supply of 100. Absolute scarcity that! More importantly there needs to be more thought into scarcity as a disadvantage for money. Scarcity for bitcoin is important but overrated for money. Money supply must be able to grow/shrink in relation to the economy it supports.
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TPLook, it's pretty clear bitcoin is going to be higher than it is today as the dollar (and fiat in general) gets smushed into oblivion to make the debt mountain smaller. However, the aggression with which bitcoin is going to get sold once we've passed the "debt singularity" (for wont of a better expression) will be something to behold. "Hodlers" are going to miss out, because they're going to miss the moment when bitcoin has served its purpose and is no longer valuable. You're never going to pay for your mortgage in bitcoin. But you'll be able to store value for long enough until you can transact back to fiat to pay the bank.
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mfBut.. isnt everything in absolute scarcity?
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LBwhat prevents a group of participants to create a certain number of per se scarce crypto-systems? just like we have Bitcoin, couldn't market participants agree to recongnize value in Bitcoin2, Bitcoin3...BitcoinN? Gold after all has value for all the reasons mentioned, but also because market participants agree on giving gold value. Same is for Bitcoin. If as a collectivity (through governments) we make it extremly difficult to transact in Bitcoin-1 (by regulations) while we make it very simple to transact in Bitcoin-2 (basically because government mandates its taxes to be paid in Bitcoin-2)...what happens then to the value of Bitcoin-1? I agree on the likelihood of a blockchain system to susbstitute gold as the tool for a hard currency ledger, but I also can't be sure that Bitcoin will be that one
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DvWhat about art? Last time I checked Rembrandt did not come back. His paintings are therefore an absolute scarcity, like a lot of other stuff. I have a big percentage of my portfolio in BTC but these guys talking about BTC like its some sort of God, it's tiresome.
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PTGood pro-Bitcoin discussion. It is not clear why a verifiable gold-backed cryptocurrency doesn't meet his concerns with gold. The two biggest risks to Bitcoin are governments restricting its use and a hacker (or the massive Chinese military group of hackers) breaking into Bitcoin (as has happened before).
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RD2 important things I’m note sure I understand. BTC is inherently deflationary, how is this good with globally growing population? Isn’t the BTC predominantly controlled by some whales? Governments want to have some type of fiat, G7 collectively could sanction IR exclude business that use BTC could they not? Isn’t the US restrictions access to capital markets already with that those who trade with Iran? I love the concept and goals- just not sure how it meshes with the goals of governments who will fight it with any means necessary to maintain their carte Blanche of spending....
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SSI listened to this guys’s “An Open Letter to Ray Dalio”, wasn’t too convinced. Generally positive on Bitcoin, but thought it could be better articulated.
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RKScarce...!?? what about the forks?
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CGI love this guy.
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MHOverall a good discussion. He downplays the value of gold as money or a medium of exchange because it underpins all central banks. That is not a fault of gold but a fault of central banks. Wait until central banks control crypto currency and Bitcoin. Also he states that we can't make more time but isn't that what productivity improvements do?
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VGGreat visualization from Robert. Just checked the Gold/Bitcoin price (XAUBTC). No need to go much deeper into discussion which of the two assets is better, market knows it best.
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NvIn my opinion it is; Transferring the value of energy instead of value of time.
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RWExcellent perspective - thank you
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MBWish I had my time back. There was nothing new in this thesis.