Carson Block’s Approach to Spotting Fraud, Cockroaches and Bullshit

Published on
December 7th, 2018
58 minutes

Dysfunction and Dependence: A Close Look at the U.S.-China Relationship

Carson Block’s Approach to Spotting Fraud, Cockroaches and Bullshit

The Interview ·
Featuring Carson Block

Published on: December 7th, 2018 • Duration: 58 minutes

Famed activist short seller Carson Block pulls no punches as he takes aim at Canada, Jack Ma and the U.S. pharmaceutical industry in this interview with Brian Price. Block, who serves as CIO of Muddy Waters Research, discusses the red flags he looks for when hunting for fraud, and reveals which companies are currently on his radar. Carson also touches on how his line of work has led to both tremendous success and death threats. Filmed December 4, 2018 in New York.


  • LA
    Linda A.
    21 January 2019 @ 18:46
    U are a champion Carson. Keep up the great work!
  • ET
    Eduard T.
    23 December 2018 @ 21:57
    One of the best interviews I have seen. Says it like he sees it.
  • dm
    dude m.
    23 December 2018 @ 19:41
    Loved the interview, particularly the swearing. :) I recall Max Keiser discussing the idea of ethical short selling a few years ago. And he founded a hedge fund for that exact purpose, the Karmabanque hedge fund project. Thank you Real Vision! I think it's time you create RealVision24, a 24 hour financial news program. It would be a smash hit.
  • SF
    Stuart F.
    19 December 2018 @ 01:34
    What a cool guy.
  • RE
    Richard E. | Contributor
    10 December 2018 @ 19:08
    He makes very good points. I believe that his idea of finding a moral compass and calling out investors and activists is interesting; however, it really needs to be done carefully. I don't think we can presume that everyone has the same morals - what is perfectly acceptable in some cultures and minds is not in others. Also, there can be just as much corruption in exposing presumed bad actors as there hiding presumed bad actors. The idea of bringing out facts and having a discussion is interesting. The idea that he is going to call people out if they have a position in something, without a discussion of both sides of the argument, is fraught with potential unintended consequences imho.
    • AJ
      Aaron J.
      15 December 2018 @ 21:06
      Was thinking the same as I listened to the conversation. It's similar to censorship in the media - who sets the compass on where to draw the line and how to ensure that the censor is truly objective and impartial? I found Carsen's points on the capital markets ultimately driving and supporting a lot of the questionable behaviour which company executives engage in to be thought provoking. Really enjoyed this interview.
  • JM
    Jason M.
    14 December 2018 @ 08:21
    I did something similar to Carson's job for nearly 20 years in Asia but on the corporate distressed debt and private equity side. I cannot tell you hard it is to take people on in a lawless region and I salute him. I've followed Carson's work since his first few reports. Carson is actually becoming a national treasure in my opinion. I hope he has a long long career and I'm glad he is tackling serious US malfeasance now. The Chinese are in another league but you are not going to change them. They almost all come from chaos and poverty. We will never be able to relate. However, in the civilized world, the stuff that's going on in this past decade in the US market is simply disgusting and I want as many of those responsible as possible to pay. I think it was Raoul who recently said on Macro Insiders that once Americans wake up to how much money was "engineered" into the hands of top management instead of investing in productive assets/ideas...we are going to have a rolling wave of scandals leading to something big socially. In my opinion its even worse than the banks last decade - maybe not as much in dollars but in its insidious intent.
  • SF
    Susan F.
    13 December 2018 @ 05:31
    Comments about Manulife and Saskatchewan are somewhat disingenuous coming from a financial guy in a country where a good percentage of the industries have regulators in their pockets and lobbying is a national pastime.
  • RP
    Raoul P. | Founder
    10 December 2018 @ 08:54
    Stunningly good interview and a great job interviewing by Brian.
    • BP
      Brian P. | Real Vision
      12 December 2018 @ 04:00
      Thanks, Boss!
  • DY
    Damian Y.
    12 December 2018 @ 02:59
    The first time you had Carson on in 2015 it was a great interview. This is another great interview. Carson is a big man who stands up for what is right. Look forward to seeing Carson back in the future.
  • KE
    Kathryn E.
    11 December 2018 @ 22:41
    Great interview and I hope he succeeds on taking the bad actors down.
  • RK
    Robert K.
    11 December 2018 @ 15:15
    Amazing stuff. And very important. As the institutional world is wanking off on ESG the same institutions invest in very shady companies in China and indirectly (or directly) support a totalitarian regime. Keep up the fight!
  • BL
    Brian L.
    11 December 2018 @ 06:09
    Peeling back the onion. Fascinating. Here is a VBLOG on youtube that is very insightful as well about life in China for foreigners. Once one gets past the veneer, it gets dicey.
  • AC
    Andrew C.
    11 December 2018 @ 04:45
    Discussion Point: how can China ever 'take over' the (financial) world when rule of law is absent and the frauds go unpunished/unchecked? Will GS or Boeing or Google ever domicile in the PRC? Do such American companies matter? What about the financial leverage the US has?
  • AC
    Andrew C.
    11 December 2018 @ 04:33
    Brian, sensational. Congrats on bringing it all out with a fantastic interview. Please up your workload; I am not sure why RVTV persists with those videos with 'written questions' when you (and Grant and Justine and all) are able to entice so much more out of the guests!
  • JV
    John V.
    11 December 2018 @ 02:25
    the truth can set us free! thank you Carson! JV
  • PG
    Philippe G.
    9 December 2018 @ 18:05 services and insurance are very, very "clubby" in Canada. Same for telecommunications.......
    • WS
      William S.
      11 December 2018 @ 00:03
      As a Canadian I can say, Canada is a government run corporation with communist leanings. You're part of the Oligarchy, or you're not. Banks, telecomm,'s all oligarchy.
  • PF
    Patrick F.
    10 December 2018 @ 17:32
    One of the best guests on RV. It would be great if you could get him to do a reoccurring series or a course type series on short selling and how to spot a fraud.
  • GL
    Geoffrey L.
    10 December 2018 @ 13:56
    I love this guy and I love Muddy Waters. One of the best things about RV is that it peels back the veneer in the finance industry. For those of us who have finance backgrounds or are retail investors but are not investment professionals embedded in the belly of the beast, it's hard to see past the opacity. These guys, RV, short sellers, Muddy Waters in particular, they do that for us. It's invaluable.
  • GL
    Geoffrey L.
    10 December 2018 @ 12:31
    31:10 - LM friggin AO Love this guy
  • ah
    ahmed h.
    10 December 2018 @ 09:05
    great interview. wud've loved to hear his thots on tesla!
  • EF
    Eric F.
    9 December 2018 @ 09:05
    Excellent video. RV are hitting it out of the park every week, often multiple times a week. There’s been some exceptional content recently. To the 19 downvotes (as I write), I can only say you’re in the wrong place (or Chinese?).
    • JC
      Justin C.
      9 December 2018 @ 18:23
      All CCP members.
  • MM
    Mike M.
    9 December 2018 @ 17:24
    Very good, Carson has job security. There are a lot of gamer's out in the financial cess pool.
  • AH
    Andreas H.
    9 December 2018 @ 13:52
    love it, that is a shortseller I like
  • SM
    S M.
    9 December 2018 @ 03:41
    Great Interview. He truly has the insight of how so called Chinese private companies operate. In china, there is nothing called private. Everything is owned by the CCP mafia, period. The whole economy is fraud, even worth, the CCP full of shit and total fraud since day one.
  • GG
    Glenn G.
    9 December 2018 @ 02:05
    Love the unfiltered version of Carson Block.......REAL on REAL vision... reminds me of a certain chicken farmer
  • TS
    Thomas S.
    9 December 2018 @ 01:59
    LOL. "We tend to think of our friends to the north as a first world country, but." Trudeau and his fellow idiots have taken Canada back to the 3rd world
  • RM
    R M.
    8 December 2018 @ 22:44
    This guy is awesome. More please!
  • JO
    James O.
    8 December 2018 @ 20:20
    Great interview. It may come to the point where influential missionaries tell the American people that doing business with the PRC is immoral. Currently, the missionaries with the loudest bullhorns are saying we should fear raising the cost of doing business with China (tariffs), despite the IP theft, dumping, and financial crimes outlined in this interview. At some point morality has to have a voice. The moral position is the communist dictatorship of China is evil and supporting China’s communist government in their unethical business dealings is like the sell side analysts supporting immoral companies mentioned in this interview. Thank you Real Vision.
  • PC
    Philip C.
    8 December 2018 @ 13:06
    Very interesting stuff. It reminds me that its time we had John Hempton back as well.
  • BB
    Benjamin B.
    8 December 2018 @ 01:52
    Very insightful interview. If one is going to invest on a moral compass shouldn't McDonald's, Coke and Hershey's also be excluded from long investment? Obesity kills a lot more people than opioids, firearms or alcohol. They also target children with their advertising.
    • AJ
      Aaron J.
      8 December 2018 @ 11:45
      You’re right. It’s so difficult to find the balance between sensible regulation and nanny state meddling.
  • CL
    Chuck L.
    8 December 2018 @ 06:31
    Excellent interview; thanks for the short time between interview and publication
  • JD
    John D.
    8 December 2018 @ 05:59
    Great Interview... One of Your Best !!!
  • JS
    John S.
    8 December 2018 @ 03:30
    Brilliant interview well done RV and CB
  • IV
    Ian V.
    8 December 2018 @ 02:33
    “Guanxinated” - speechless.
  • HM
    Holland M.
    8 December 2018 @ 01:01
    Extraordinary interview!
  • JH
    Jesse H.
    7 December 2018 @ 22:45
    Please have Carson on again - fantastic stuff.
  • JH
    Jesse H.
    7 December 2018 @ 22:44
    I know that I am not an exception in this regard. Make no mistake, if one has a moral compass, that compass also impacts investment decisions.
  • JH
    Jesse H.
    7 December 2018 @ 22:42
    I for one have had an opportunity to invest in a bank tied to investment in coal fired power stations, and chose not to despite the higher returns.
  • JH
    Jesse H.
    7 December 2018 @ 22:41
    ...have morals (or are capable of having morals). If we CHOOSE to ignore the moral implications of our investments, then that is our choice. But it is a choice, whether conscious or subconscious.
  • JH
    Jesse H.
    7 December 2018 @ 22:39
    This is fascinating - need to watch the last part again. I respectfully disagree that “investing is inherently an amoral activity.” No way - it is done by humans and humans (last time I checked) gave
  • JH
    Jesse H.
    7 December 2018 @ 22:31
    Excellent - thanks RV.
  • BY
    Brit Y.
    7 December 2018 @ 21:01
    Incredible content. I'm curious what other brave short sellers are out there that I should be listening to.
    • AK
      Arthur K.
      7 December 2018 @ 22:00
      John Hempton interview was fascinating.
  • SS
    Steve S.
    7 December 2018 @ 21:39
    Very interesting interview.
  • SH
    Steve H.
    7 December 2018 @ 19:40
    Mr. Block should run for public office. Seriously.
  • AP
    A P.
    7 December 2018 @ 18:04
    Is RV accessible out of China? Adding together the Bass interviews, this one and others exposing China, this must come as a shock if one is not aware of what's going on.
  • TB
    Thomas B.
    7 December 2018 @ 17:25
    Another great one. Thank you!
  • sT
    sid T.
    7 December 2018 @ 11:03
    I honestly don't know how you guys manage to surpass yourself everytime. As an aspiring entrepreneur, it's really inspiring. I have been a subscriber for a year now, and I really can't remember how i got my news before. And I have stopped watching the news. THE NEWS
    • RP
      Raoul P. | Founder
      7 December 2018 @ 17:14
      That is so kind of you and makes all our sleepless nights and 7 day weeks worthwhile. Thank you!
  • TT
    Travis T.
    7 December 2018 @ 15:56
    I think it's healthy right now to beat up China a little bit. They need to be slapped. They have no respect for America. I can't imagine the US government giving American companies the green light to cheat and scam Chinese companies. The Bretton Woods system is what allows China to be a unified country. They had it easy but not for long.
  • SP
    Sat P.
    7 December 2018 @ 12:03
    I have been wanting to see a follow up on frauds since watching the one and only interview on this topic with Harry Markopolos. I have never heard of Carson Block and loved the content and learnt a lot. I loved the decision to warn Fund managers about companies pushing opioids, that was disgraceful and had no idea this is going on. Great work by Real Vision
    • ML
      Michele L.
      7 December 2018 @ 15:33
      Grant's December 2017 interview with Marc Cohodes was also fantastic on this topic.
  • BT
    Brian T.
    7 December 2018 @ 11:59 for good!
  • Nv
    Nick v.
    7 December 2018 @ 10:56
    Fantastic. Thank you
  • YB
    Yuriy B.
    7 December 2018 @ 10:50
    Bravo Real Vision! A breath of fresh air.