Cybersecurity and the AI Arms Race

Published on
October 11th, 2017
30 minutes

Cybersecurity and the AI Arms Race

The Interview ·
Featuring Arthur Keleti

Published on: October 11th, 2017 • Duration: 30 minutes

Arthur Keleti is a cybersecurity futurist, who understands the threats to humanity that hacking and cyber criminals pose. Gain a new perspective on where the trillions of dollars are expected to flow into the cybersecurity industry and how the artificial intelligence arms race is intensifying. Filmed on September 27, 2017, in the Cayman Islands.


  • SF
    Stephen F.
    28 June 2020 @ 07:27
    Governments manufacture nightmares so that they may sell you security.
  • RO
    Robert O.
    25 November 2017 @ 07:40
    Transhumanism really got started with the smart phone and the growing number of apps and internet capacity. Kids are now introduced to iPhones, iPads and their Chrome cousins at such a young age that they become indoctrinated into the "Borg" collective. When we periodically have an internet outage it's like part of their brains and lives are put on hold until they can become reconnected. At a time when there feels to be a dumbing down of Western society and machines have been able to beat the best Chess and Go players in the world, the risk for a Borg / Terminator / Matrix future does not appear to be science fiction so much as just a bad outcome. In this future world of complete internet connection and artificial intelligence what currency or cryptocurrency is safe. India transition to a cashless society may have come at just the worst time, but at least they still have a lot of gold.
  • DG
    Darren G.
    15 November 2017 @ 13:10
    WOW mind just been blown!
  • rc
    robinson c.
    11 November 2017 @ 21:37
    Superb. Thank you Arthur
  • AK
    Arthur K.
    17 October 2017 @ 20:34
    Hi Everyone! I've been following the comments here - thank you for taking the time and writing them. I've been working in cybersecurity for more than twenty years now, and I've seen the industry become really significant. This topic is controversial especially if you add AI and financial motivation in the mix. It is still not discussed frequently enough in boardrooms and the efficiency of cybersecurity awareness trainings is debatable. On top of that, classifying information is something people silently struggle with all the time. Unfortunately, there are a lot of things we could not touch in the interview, such as our missing "digital immune system" or the phenomena of "cyber-secrets" that shows our inability to properly identify sensitive information because the systems we build are still not able to understand the human context that gives information its real value. I hope that by talking more frequently and in more depth about these issues, a lot more questions will be brought to the surface. You are all welcome to connect with me on LinkedIn and continue this discussion or read my latest book about these topics. Thank You! - Arthur Keleti
  • RM
    Russell M.
    17 October 2017 @ 15:24
    The state of the AI world is brilliantly and entertainingly described in much better detail by Max Tegmark in his recent book "Life 3:0:Being Human in the Age of Artificial Intelligence". Well worth reading.
  • DY
    Damian Y.
    17 October 2017 @ 12:28
    If you're interested in AI then go and see the new Blade Runner movie 2049. The movie is all about AI and it's a brilliant sequel to the original.
  • S
    Sean .
    17 October 2017 @ 05:20
    Renato - good point. The annual hacking conference in Las Vegas is basically machine vs machine. Fascinating to watch
  • S
    Sean .
    17 October 2017 @ 05:19
    Having done a bit of cybesecurity it is shocking to see how underprepared companies are. CEOs think it is must an IT issue & wonder why Chinese competitors can copy their products...
  • MG
    Mandeep G.
    15 October 2017 @ 04:16
    Raoul, if you really want to explore the subject of AI and how it may shape the future of humanity, please try to interview Nick Bostrom at Oxford University. He is one of the leading thinkers in this space.
  • MD
    M D.
    13 October 2017 @ 21:53
    The interviewee could not express himself clearly. He did not demonstrate his expertise. Sharper questionning would have helped him.
  • LY
    Leo Y.
    11 October 2017 @ 23:03
    As a software developer with 20+ years experiences, I can see the guy who called "cybersecurity futurist" have no clue about how a hacker hacks a computer, he don't know the basic network concept, don't know coding and don't know hacking. There are many ways to hack a computer without exposure hacker themselves(read "routing tcp/ip vol 1 & 2", you will have basic knowledge about network and security). The ones which can be traced to their location are the really amateur. So how the "expert" knows the number of government sponsored hackers in the country and don't know their method. The "expert" is so rubbish, I couldn't finish the video.
    • sm
      stephen m.
      13 October 2017 @ 15:36
      you should send a message to realvision and come on television. i mean this literally - realvision should be mining the user base for expertise this is the value of this network or it diminishes in value to people just trying to sell books or research. i hope realvision see's the value in this and thinks about it.
  • DD
    Derek D.
    12 October 2017 @ 05:57
    This is quite naive and didn't learn anything from this. I would be interested to understanding the investments, key players, and opportunities in AI/ML. Overall, didn't find this video useful.
    • sm
      stephen m.
      13 October 2017 @ 15:18
      agree industry opportunities to buy and whi is positioned doing what in the public space or risk to public companies
  • DJ
    D J.
    12 October 2017 @ 09:47
    Raoul, you are great as allways, but let me tell you one thing. That guy not usefull, not one thing usefull he mentioned (meaning new).
    • RE
      Renato E.
      13 October 2017 @ 14:41
      second that
  • IP
    IDA P.
    11 October 2017 @ 11:31
    I'm wondering who put thumbs down!!! this piece makes you reflect, in the world where all the media tries to prevent us from thinking.... really excellent thank you so much
    • SA
      Scott A.
      11 October 2017 @ 22:56
      Well, I did for one. Both security and AI are very worthy topics, I just felt the interviewee could have been better in terms of both content and structure. His hedge fund example made it sound as if the software became "alive". My guess is in reality someone realized the software was executing rule combinations that were never tested, and made a proper risk call. And a lot of his other responses were really basic. And before I'd worry about Trump's targeted messaging I'd be terrified of Facebook's tests of influencing public behavior via fake postings.
    • RE
      Renato E.
      13 October 2017 @ 14:39
      Because he is not an expert at all, that's why.
  • RE
    Renato E.
    13 October 2017 @ 14:37
    Working in the cyber security area for more than 16 years. He is not an expert in cyber security, that's for sure. "In the future, they will use machines against machines". Already happening. Google "DARPA's Cyber Grand Challenge" for more information. If you are looking for a real expert on cyber security, interview Mikko Hypponen or check out some of his TED talks.
  • SB
    Sergei B.
    13 October 2017 @ 13:23
    Early in the interview, Arthur mentioned that humans are able to create systems that are too complex for the humans to understand. Even though Arthur meant computer systems/networks, the same could be said about the human society, politics, economics, markets etc. that no single human likely understands (Aristotle arguably was the last person who knew everything there was to know). Yet, the humans have developed strategies to copy with the complexity. Presumably the complexity posed by the rise of the AI is qualitatively different and fundamentally incomprehensible to humans. I might have missed it in the interview but I would love to know what exactly is it that makes it so .. I guess Arthur might say that if we could describe it, then we could understand it .. circular and scary like the Japanese horror movies :)
  • AF
    Andrew F.
    13 October 2017 @ 10:38
    We rushing a head for $$$'s and our own destruction. Can you see AI's challenging each other in a nuclear war and no humans to control this... It maybe an open book but it may remove us of it.
  • BR
    Ben R.
    13 October 2017 @ 01:44
    What all these AI people assume is that machines can gain sentience. It may be unfashionable to be spiritual nowadays but it's possible they will never be more than 1's and 0's. Very smart ones though
  • IP
    IDA P.
    11 October 2017 @ 10:59
    I just canceled myself from Facebook really
    • BM
      Bethan M.
      11 October 2017 @ 12:04
      Sadly, Facebook keep your data, even once you've deleted your profile - but you're not wrong to be concerned. It is more effective to control who you allow to track/profile you and your online activity via 3rd party cookies etc. Download something like Little Snitch and see how many connections your browser makes, across the globe, to advertising and media collection/resellers/networks. We've unwittingly sold ourselves for the illusion of a free internet.
    • JC
      Ja C.
      13 October 2017 @ 00:52
      Bethan, thanks for this post. Is there something like Little Snitch for Windows or Linux? You may like Steve Gibson's Security Now podcast.
  • DC
    Dave C.
    12 October 2017 @ 23:36
    Great subject to cover further - but not with this guy. My bullshit detector was twitching early on in the interview, but on the 3 strikes and out theory tripped out with the following exchange AK In 2020, there will be 44 zettabytes of information circling around the internet. Right? It's an immense number. And the next one-- RP: How many zeroes is a zettabyte. AK: It's like-- I don't know. Keep up the good work.
  • RL
    Rui L.
    12 October 2017 @ 20:43
    not even a mention on GDPR ?
  • TM
    The-First-James M.
    12 October 2017 @ 14:49
    To paraphrase Raoul, I found this both interesting and scary. One thing is for certain. It will take a crisis to make us respect the power and danger of this technology.
  • LV
    Luís V.
    12 October 2017 @ 13:57
    Regarding transhumanism and human enhancing there is already a bunch of work done in the field of Philosophy (even moral enhancement!). So bring those issues here. To critically think about them. And then try to make trades on it. Kudos Raoul.
  • CL
    Cameron L.
    11 October 2017 @ 13:09
    Refreshing Interview, I'd love to see more fourth industrial revolution topics picked to pieces. I think so many people are completely and utterly underestimating what is just around the corner. Most people I speak to imagine comparing classic computers to quantum computers as going from a Toyota Prius to a F1 car. The truth is closer to a step change from the horse and cart to the Millennium Falcon! If that's hard to comprehend, watch the two links below. Moores law will be thrown out the window very soon. The average human brain calculates at around +/- 50 petaflops a second (500,000 trillion). Ray Kurzweil was predicting in 1999 that computers would outperform humans around 2040. Well is actually happened this yr. Futurists are saying man will have to merge with machine just to be able to keep up with the rate of technological change, otherwise AI could see non augmented humans as inferior fodder. I'm in the Elon Musk Camp. But before we get to that point as other Realvision Guests have brought up, there will be a lot of positives on the way, China testing basic Quantum computers to synchronize all the traffic lights in real time in some of its new mega cities. As soon as the medical industry can start buying Quantum computers cancer will be gone, in a few yrs time secret clinics will open up in japan letting the rich to spend 6 weeks in intensive anti aging programs, reversing telemere shorting, coming back 20-30 yrs younger as Patrick cox mentioned. In the meantime we all sit and watch to see if the United States and China can avoid the Thucydidean Trap, with Beijing saying we'll back NK if the US strikes first, that 5th case to resolve itself peacefully as Graham Alison mentions that we're all hoping for is not looking promising
    • CS
      Colton S.
      11 October 2017 @ 14:15
      Advances in medicine are more a factor of regulation than tech. When you have dirty self-interested parties on the FDA's advisory panels blocking competition, nothing will ever change, technology be damned.
    • RA
      Robert A.
      12 October 2017 @ 00:32
      Yup, I’m in the middle of Destined for War right now—if good enough for Kyle Bass to take to Mars as is only read....figured I should give it a quick read myself.
    • CL
      Cameron L.
      12 October 2017 @ 02:10
      @Colton S. another reason why Asia is the place to be over the coming decades. Speaking as an Australian, the United States is one country of many. There's a lot of countries out there that don't have restrictive regulations and lobbyist groups hindering tech advancement.
  • RA
    Robert A.
    11 October 2017 @ 23:37
    Kudos to Curator Milton. I’ll open a new file—Science Fiction/Non Fiction. I think Sun Tzu’s Art of War interated “information is power” many years ago and it seems as true today as it was then. I’ve watched almost every RV segement and am continually impressed with the breadth of information we are being given. I’m sure there is a lot of thought by Milton as to what curation is apropos for the RV audience. Many of the RV segments, IMO are esoteric and may not appeal to everyone, but I for one feel that most have been worth my time to watch even if they don’t hold my attention or resonate with me as much as some of the others that are more in my interest wheelhouse.
  • GB
    11 October 2017 @ 22:39
    Great interview, would like to know who are the big players for this trillion dollar industry
  • TJ
    Terry J.
    11 October 2017 @ 18:31
    Totally fascinating and terrifying! I sincerely hope machines do not inherit the Earth, but then I remember what a horrible bloody mess man in his greed has made of it in the last century with all our wars, and realise it could not get any worse if AI were the masters! I suppose the problem is that the greedy elite who sponsored the bloodshed of two world wars as well as the modern fight against terrorism will also try and control the new transhuman machine era should it evolve, so probaly little will realy change for the ordinary Earth inhabitant! Still hopefully in the meantime, we can as Raoul suggests exploit the investment opportunities!
  • IH
    Iain H.
    11 October 2017 @ 18:25
    If millions of people lose their jobs to robotics, who will be the customers? If governments tax robots to pay for those who loose their jobs that has to slow the rate of change?Is it possible that AI robots could decide that humans are the hindrance to further progress and liquid us all? If that is possible, why or rather should we going down this path? If robots are making everything do we need borders? Who cares who comes to live in my country, the robots are doing everything?
  • BB
    Bill B.
    11 October 2017 @ 18:21
    Nice beginning. We need more on this topic. I have been telling you this since the beginning of RV. How about getting Arthur to pick an AI expert to be interviewed.
  • IO
    Igor O.
    11 October 2017 @ 16:24
    Voting for seeing more on this subject. It's so easy to fall behind on latest developments if you not paying attention.
  • Sv
    Sid v.
    11 October 2017 @ 15:10
    I don't know how to use this interview to make money? Interesting, but not precise enough for me.
  • TB
    Tim B.
    11 October 2017 @ 15:03
    Important topic, underwhelming interviewee.
  • FW
    Francis W.
    11 October 2017 @ 14:24
    My reaction is that this was a wasted opportunity to discuss several aspects in any depth. Cyberwar and the rise of the robots will be key factors in defining our future. It would be worthwhile to explore each in greater depth.
    • RP
      Raoul P. | Founder
      11 October 2017 @ 14:49
      Dont worry, we'll cover much more on all of this over time. As you say, these are important issues.
  • GB
    Gerrit B.
    11 October 2017 @ 13:02
    Interesting topic. It raises the question about who we are as human beings. I'd object to a merely physicalist-informational conception of life. It's helpful to distinguish between intelligence and consciousness. I don't see machines developing consciousness (having a will and purpose of their own). Still for a lot of jobs only intelligence is required, so the impact of AI + big data is not to be underestimated. I guess morality will need to be programmed to deal with ethical dilemmas that until now where only theoretical. E.g. what is a self-driving car going to do when an accident is unavoidable and someone is going to be hurt?
  • JV
    Jason V.
    11 October 2017 @ 11:30
    Absolutely fascinating. Completely terrifying. Potentially massive investment opportunity. That was quite an interview, Raoul!
  • jS
    jurgen S.
    11 October 2017 @ 11:07
    Mankind evolving to a world of machines and robots. Thats hard to get your head around!! An excellent thought piece.