Comments
Transcript
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DMThoughtful... Cohodes asks some good questions here - this was information rich material in an interesting section of the crypto ambit.
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EOMarc is truly a great interviewer! Thanks
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aDMaybe I'm missing something but the hoteling tokenization sounds like my parent's timeshare...just with a digital token?
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HTGonna call spade for what it is... Putting the "bites" or "hotel time-share" utility token on a distributed ledger is the most inefficient way of creating a rewards program. You don't need to decentralise stuff like that. This is the shitcoine-ry pitch playing out again all over again and it's only been 3 years since the ICO Scambrian explosion. I could be wrong and they find an actual product market fit. I wish Stephane all the best.
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WGMarc is such a genuine and humble guy, I really enjoy every chance I get to hear him. Great interview. Lots to think about. Thank you.
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RDSecurity Tokens make sense and I hope they turn modern Wall St on their head but the Utility Token aspect sounds like "Groupon" on the Blockchain.
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BVI really like the content and ideas of Stephane. Though I appreciate the conviction of Marc, it would be great to have the interview be a little more critical. It's wonderful to fully be on the same page but it becomes hard to ask the tough questions that deliver the extra mile. Example: Great to know that there is nothing preventing athletes to tokenize themselves. But it'd be great to try and dig deeper into why then it doesn't really happen en masse as of yet.
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MPI'm not sure if I were the owner of, say a restaurant, how I would feel about a perpetual discount. How much money would I need to charge for a forever 20% discount that is transferrable? A loan would be eventually paid off but forever discount seems similar to a property tax.
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TSMarc and Stephane .... thank you for the discussion. wants me to do more research on securitization and tokenization. Marc ,,, to one of your questions (assuming it was not rhetorical) .... I believe that Spencer Dinwiddie of the Brooklyn Nets NBA team has tokenzed (or is trying to) his contract. Initially, the NBA had issues and "denied" it or made him make some sort of changes.
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LBThose utility tokens sound like they could be a better way to measure specific types of price inflation and hedge against it. 50% discount on the total cost of the product: if the price of the product goes up then the value of the utility token goes up as well and vice versa. Bam, inflation tracking index which can be traded 24h/day anywhere in the world! Now imagine if you sprinkle a bit of leverage on top of it.
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PIMarc is an engaging and enthusiastic advocate and Stephane is a really good salesman; but the interview missed the major point. Investments require governance mechanisms which often are important influences on secondary market value e.g. spreads between voting and non-voting shares . Passive outside investors need representation and oversight mechanisms such as boards or general partners with fiduciary obligations . The evolution of laws , tax systems and businesses often require modification of governance mechanisms , business forms , capital structures and/or corporate by-laws over time . How will this be done in tokenized systems? What is the equivalent of shareholding voting, shareholder books and records requests and proxy access in this tokenized world? Liquid markets require financial transparency and governance mechanisms with respect to manager compensation , conflict of interest relationships , financial reporting and accounting oversight. How will these be managed and what rights to receive them will token holders have ? Marc had an outstanding career researching and shorting stocks of companies which were abusive in many of just these areas . His work was facilitated by legal , market ,governance and accounting norms and rules which eventually recognized abuses as they became more apparent . Tokens seem to be in a remarkably primitive stage in addressing such issues. Usually that means early promoters and principals are able to sell investments and structures in the first blush of enthusiasms that subsequently prove unfair and/or costly to the outside investors and they are often remarkably difficult investments to re-sell at anything close to their theoretical net asset values. Until we see a lot more about how tokenized investments will deal with fundamental issues of their operations and corporate governance their theoretical relative cost advantages in being re-traded in blockchain markets ( in this case controlled by the promoter of the underlying investments ) is likely to prove scant consolation.
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dfMarc that so much for this, something new, fresh air in RV!
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JKI love how at the 21 minute mark, baetz is joking that marc has access to his harddrive and marc just deadpans a no lol. I love this guy
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RMI don't see how there is transparency as to solvency of the restaurants/hotels the tokens gives you a claim on. I don't see how assure that the discount offered to token holders is a real discount from everyone else. The hotel or restaurant could could give discount coupons to any repeat customers that are the equivalent of the tokens. And what happens if the quality of the food/hotel goes down? Seem like there is just too much uncertainty for what you are getting.
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VSIt is a great interview! Love Marc! I do not see why consumers should or would want to prepay for their consumption when the whole point is to postpone payment. It seems like an idea for places with high rates of inflation which takes out all of the developed world. All in all sounds like Crowdsourcing 2.0. Also can anyone explain all the excitement about the ease of trading private companies' shares? If retail investing in them proliferates further and there is indeed no reason to go public, then what you are going to end up with in the US is just regulation and disclosure standards on par with EM. Which - I can say as an EM person - would be very-very unfortunate.
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MDGreat interview, thanks Marc and Stephane. Well explained. It seems to be putting the risk onto the consumer? I understand the utility tokens have a wider use than a single business (multiple restaurants for eg), yet there is still risk if one of them goes bankrupt (value of the token would fall?) Why would I chose to do that I wonder (buy a token to fund a business)? A discount v the risk I just mentioned? I am assuming there would be an incentive for an investor/user/token buyer. What about localisation - I wouldn't invest in a token (utility) for the US (assuming I won't be travelling there) - yet an Australian investment bank might chose to fund an investment in the US if they see a return. So it might limit the capital allocation? There might be better examples than hotels/restaurants as the concept in general sounds positive. I know however - frequent flyers say - are ok but normally end up being a dud and the company ultimately benefits. Security tokens sound a bit more interesting. Still, early days and great to be hearing about it at the ground level. Thanks.
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MBSo the st Regis token is locked up on tzero for a year prior to be traded ?
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TZMaybe I'm misunderstanding something, but the tokenized utility token idea for restaurants/hotels seems kind of pointless. So you basically get a voucher/discount if you buy the token for that service, but what is the difference with vouchers you get now? Additionally, I quite often get vouchers when I buy something, it makes you feel special, until you realize that there are free 20% off vouchers/other things you can find online, for free, and I can imagine restaurants/hotels having other vouchers that are given to repeat customers or to those that look hard enough (or sometimes discounts are applied to attract customers to low occupancy hotels). How is this product any different from a club/loyalty customer card that exist for most chain venues today? If this product is advertised as a "voucher" or with some other wall street window dressing, it just seems like an absolute nothing burger to me. What I really want, is the ability to buy an actual fractional share in the restaurant/hotel/business and its profits. You could envision a world where you can speculate on businesses in individual cities that are experiencing high growth, or you think will experience an influx of tourists/growth/people flocking to the city to spend their money based on different trends/data acquired from other sources (e.g. traffic, train occupancy, satnav data). This would allow the construction of flexible portfolios that could truly never be constructed before, with innovative risk management approaches and fractional ownership, that would ideally encompass a dividend or some right to the profits generated, or more fractional shares of assets that the money is invested into, based on my own fractional ownership and right to profits. It would also allow businesses that are struggling or need to raise cash (particularly chains), to do so while maintaining majority, or some stake in their business. I imagine that there is some regulatory issue or some other problem why it has not been done this way, or is it just pure greed? I'm really sorry, I would be happy to be proven completely wrong by someone, but if someone tried to sell me a voucher for discounted food in a restaurant or a hotel night in Southeast Asia, I would pass them for a Nigerian salesman that mistook me for my grandmother. On a more positive note, what Elevated Returns has done with tokenization with the Tezos platform is quite interesting and is probably the industry leader in that STO category, but this I would not invest in.
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shI thought Marc did a great interview.
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mwAnyone know why OSTK got killed today?
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PBExtremely interesting conversation! Thank you for this! Learnt much more about DLT, ICO crypto and tokens... But I have still so many questions, because it seems to me that a token can pierce the veil of Howey test unintentionally by its use. For example; if an athlete or an artist tokenize him/herself and puts on the platform X tokens based on his/her net worth contract etc and some of those are acquired for example by Y at $1000. If the professional value of that individual each then sold again at $1100 isn't that practically a security? Or more tokens have to be released? And what about if the value goes down? Or am I getting it wrong? BTW love the idea to use it in the hospitality and restaurant industry! Actually all small businesses. Thank you again.
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JFGreat interview. Have been hearing more about STOs migrating from Eth to Tezos. Will look into Tezos.
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LKVery clear explanation of the difference between security and utility tokens. Although Marc doesn't explicitly say it, he makes it seem like many of the most popular crypto assets are unregistered securities.
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LBAwesome interview - thank you. I didn’t have any knowledge of this topic and it was very well explained. It is clear to me that tokenization will change the world for the better and eliminate a great deal of systemic risk through consumer owned businesses. I also really appreciate Marc bring his wealth of knowledge and his perspective as an interviewer on RV.
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MRUnbelievable how early we are, to get information about that stuff. Great 45min, well spent. Thank you so much
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ddthnx
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TMTranscript please?
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DOsuperb interview! awesome! cheers!!
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SSWell done. interesting and informative interview!
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SGMarc is a heavy investor in Overstock having spoke of it on other media that I follow, apart from his interview with Raoul. I have not listened to this as yet, but a disclosure of this in the description, even in passing, would be good to see.
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SCMarc is so biased when it comes to his trades. He really owns them. Its not something I normally see when speaking to other investors. Great interview and happy to see these investment opportunities reveal themselves here at Real Vision
Chapters
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Early Career in Capital Markets
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Differentiating Crypto, ICOs and Security Tokens
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Emerging as a Pioneer
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Why Reg A Offerings Don't Work
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Expanding to Asia
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How to Tokenize Real Estate
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Utility Tokens v. Security Tokens
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Tokenizing Restaurants
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What Airline Tokenization Could Look Like
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Monetization and Innovation
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The Next Wave: Consumer Funded Businesses
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The Future of Securitizing Assets