Expand Your Capital for the Next Crisis

Published on
April 20th, 2017
66 minutes

Expand Your Capital for the Next Crisis

The Interview ·
Featuring Chris Martenson

Published on: April 20th, 2017 • Duration: 66 minutes

Chris Martenson, author, independent thinker and co-founder of PeakProsperity,com has some firm ideas on how to prepare for the next crisis, based on the inexorable rise in debt and the future challenges for the planet with energy and ecology. Change begins within, according to Chris, with a focus on social, living and emotional capital, as well as financial, to be in position to take advantage of the opportunities in alternative energy and food for the future. Filmed on April 11, 2017, in New York.


  • BT
    Bryan T.
    14 July 2017 @ 19:58
    Brilliant. Originally subscribed for investment-based content, but you guys continue to provide a rich environment for thought-provoking ideas beyond that. Well done.
  • YB
    Yogesh B.
    9 June 2017 @ 19:19
    One of the best interviews I've ever listened to. Amazing how Chris covers the multitude of layers in humanity's complex system and beautifully integrates them such that it is comprehensible and not overwhelming. Remarkably done!
  • PB
    Pieter B.
    6 May 2017 @ 06:24
    Simply really really impressive! Thanks a lot that there are people that can both critically analyze the world and take proactive action and articulate change!
  • ag
    anthony g.
    2 May 2017 @ 18:55
    Bring him back in Sept. 2018 or so to talk about oil ?
  • TS
    Tim S.
    30 April 2017 @ 02:09
    Awesome. I was headed in this direction already on instinct but his comments on social capital reminded me that money alone will not be enough to make it through tough times. Great interview and I would like more, please. :-)
  • KE
    Kenan E.
    22 April 2017 @ 13:41
    One thing which comes to my mind when thinking about the endgame... Wouldn't some form of socialism be a "solution" for the elites to defer the endgame some more years -- or even some decades? We have already travelled quite a bit away from free markets. And the elites seem to be willing to do EVERYTHING to keep the system 'running'. And I think some might even argue that we already have a socialist type of system in many countries. Why not just get completely rid of democracy and have some state controlled system. Wouldn't that be a 'solution' for our beloved elites? If they would push the right buttons it wouldn't be too complicated to get the people on their side... I wonder why no one discusses this scenario as a possible route for the 'endgame'?!?!
    • IZ
      Ileana Z.
      29 April 2017 @ 23:46
      I agree! The writing is on the wall when you look at the voting of millennials...Sanders. They want everything for free. I am from a little island south of Florida and let me tell you socialism also fits the quote "slowly then all at once". Or as I constantly tell my American friends that they are like the frog in the pot with the heat turned up very little...nice til it's not!
  • CD
    Chris D.
    26 April 2017 @ 10:04
    Chris is my hero as well. Through his research I recognized the seriousness of our predicaments, quit my job at a major bank and started hedging my life in new ways.
  • ER
    Edward R.
    25 April 2017 @ 20:29
    Good Stuff Grant: What I would find really interesting is a panel type thing with an old Guest in the energy field: Diego Parrilla & Chris doing a discussion type thing. Don't recall seeing this type of thing done here, but in this case, it might be an interesting chat with these two, just a passing thought.
  • SS
    Steven S.
    25 April 2017 @ 19:20
    So glad you guys have finally had the great Chris Martenson on RealVision - this guy is my personal hero. Keep sending & promoting this important message.
  • SS
    Sam S.
    24 April 2017 @ 23:14
    No matter what happens in the future, being aware of potential changes and outcomes gives a person the edge, per the comment by Chris-------"how we react to the major change is what matters". Grant a long time ago in an interview stated "Doesn't matter to anyone until it matters to everyone". Best RV line ever------I'm just saying. Hope I got the quote words right?
  • SS
    Sam S.
    24 April 2017 @ 23:06
    Natural Gas, CNG, LNG are all in huge supply--why isn't the powers to be screaming for all the great technology and infastructure for NG? What about the recent HUGE, or they reported huge, oil discovery in Texas Permean Basin? Grant nailed it----current narrative is we are a wash in oil----but weren't not really. Thanks Chris---great interview.
  • RC
    Richard C.
    24 April 2017 @ 21:20
    Interesting discussion on reddit regarding 'perception' at https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/678la4/science_ama_series_im_beau_lotto_a_neuroscientist/ This ties into Chris' discussion about how to get people engaged in discussions that they instinctively tune out.
  • HJ
    Harry J.
    24 April 2017 @ 03:53
    Excellent job Grant. Thinking about my children and grandchildren. Scary! Fuel efficient cars and trucks sound good But the battery issue is key. If we can crack that challenge energy will not be thr
  • LH
    Lloyd H.
    21 April 2017 @ 14:22
    I love this video , with respect to energy production what about nuclear fusion? Necessity is the mother of invention so maybe it could be here by 2030?
    • TS
      Thomas S.
      23 April 2017 @ 21:39
      Key word is "could". Artificial Intelligence "could" also solve a lot of energy related issues in the future if we are lucky.
  • RA
    Robert A.
    21 April 2017 @ 01:57
    One of YOUR best efforts Grant! This one went immediately to the "watch again" bin. Based on "what I know" I would dispute him on the Oil assumption, but clearly he has worked the problem more than I have--so I'll need to do a lot more homework. I have only gotten a couple of thumbs down since viewing/commenting from inception and sure hope this next bit is not poorly received----I know everyone hates Trial Lawyers (until you need a REALLY good one of course). This guy would have made a Trial Lawyer extraordinaire! 3 key bits here; People learn and are persuaded either visually or verbally I have found---you need to read the person correctly and have the correct presentation for THAT person at your fingertips, second, and he is spot on---you need to figure out what or who is the "authoratative" vehilcle that the person can and will learn from and accept conclusions from, and third and most importantly-----the key to ANY "persuasion" or "idea presentation" is simply that the idea must be theirs! You cannot "tell" them they must think a certain thing or accept a certain thought---they must come on it themselves if it is to truly be important to them. This guy is truly scary as to how he has grasped the "art of persuasion"---without seemingly trying to persuade!
    • JP
      J P.
      23 April 2017 @ 15:09
      You must be kidding!!! Not challenged once, platitudes. How about a real discussion of energy technology ranging from "fracking" to Solar and wind, with some hard core Facts. Declining cost of production in these areas have enormous impact on growth and development. REally thin Gruel!
  • JP
    J P.
    23 April 2017 @ 15:05
    Further, how about a little more discussion on his views of what changes the rate of Credit Creation in the US and global economy. Rather than expounding endless platitudes on looking at 40 year curves. (Which should be logarithmic, not Arithmetic.) The interview was thin lacking any intellectual weight. This interview could have been done in about 5 minutes. What a colossal Bore. This man has spent years on this. What audience is he speaking to, it certainly is not a Realvision audience. REALLY DISAPPOINTED!
  • JP
    J P.
    23 April 2017 @ 14:59
    Really Disappointing Interview. Grant did not challenge Chris on a Major concept of his regarding Energy. Chris wants to expound endlessly about running out of energy, and maybe he is right. However, Chris needs to explain the impact of energy discovery and production technology and why it wont be used around the world to continue to produce relatively inexpensive fossil fuels. The cost of production is a declining cost curve. Further Chris seems to be making a global warming argument without going into the details. I have no problem with that, linking CO2 to destruction of ecology using insects as an example. Perfectly reasonable, However he did not talk about alternative energy production technology and its rate of change. Simply stating that changing energy infrastructure is really hard is incredibly weak as an argument. come on Grant you ARE ALOT SMARTER THATN THAT. Why dont you challenge your guests a little more. I found Chris pedantic a lacking Rigor. What a waste of an hour!!!!
  • WM
    Will M.
    23 April 2017 @ 14:44
    Read the Crash Course and the video slide pack at Chris's site Peak Prosperity. com many years ago. Great stuff but of course it is a longer term view and most of us are a bit weak at thinking out 7 years plus. I see some folks disagree on his oil thesis here and I myself am in the business. I do believe that higher oil prices may be capped in the short - medium term by frackers oil from large resources in the US and elsewhere BUT Ghawar in Saudi Arabia can not last much longer and the kingdom will need to extract more from smaller fields to maintain its production capabilities. When will the oil crunch come? I THINK it will be well into the 2020s, probably after the crash that feels closer and closer when the next upswing occurs. So I am less pessimistic than Chris on oil for the next 10 years and much more worried about the financial stresses and entitlement crunch that feel certain to burst within 5 let alone 10 years. The Force had better be with us or TEOTWAWKI will catch so many many people out, that chaos feels certain to accompany the event.
  • RR
    Raj R.
    22 April 2017 @ 23:56
    Also, elon musk and Bezos are probably in competition to find energy on another planet that can be brought back to earth. Hope that happens before 2025.
  • TR
    Thomas R.
    22 April 2017 @ 22:41
    Really enjoyed the interview and perspective. A couple of possible editing points - At 43:20 the chart of US Total Credit and US GDP – I’m questioning the lines as being mislabeled - I’m thinking the green line s/b GDP, approaching $20T - and the red line is actually US Total Credit, reflecting in the chart at over $40T. My second possible edit is at 36:24 he states that we are at $60T of Total Credit Market Debt – which is greater than the either number in the chart at 43:20. I'm perhaps to anal in my comments here - I just have a strong concentration of factoring debt levels in my own investment philosophy. If I'm incorrect in my assertions, please advise. Again, really enjoyed the interview and look forward into inquiring more into Chris's company offerings.
  • JM
    James M.
    22 April 2017 @ 17:10
    Excellent interview and a refreshing reminder which is heard practically never in the Financial world that Perpetual Growth is a moronic, naive , immoral, unjust and delusional pursuit. Chris is a man with some real integrity and a valuable asset to the human race.
  • FD
    Francois-Guy D.
    22 April 2017 @ 03:38
    Martinson's way of thinking is an expression of a truly holistic mind. One of the best interview on RV to my taste. Thank you Grant
  • JM
    Jason M.
    22 April 2017 @ 03:29
    My one question about this interview is Chris's advice for being on the right side when the financial reshuffling occurs. He mentioned deflation and I would imagine he eschews debt but among some of those that profited the most from prior great periods of inflation were those that had purchased assets with debt that was wiped out by inflation, leaving them with full control of the underlying asset and the ability to raise prices as needed.
  • SW
    Scott W.
    22 April 2017 @ 01:25
    A. Would it be too crazy to bring abiogenic theory(s) into this discussion? Maybe there's way more petroleum than some might think. B. I always believed the malthusian style argument "we need to do something about a predicted shortage" fell flat against the market based argument that when the shortage arrived, market forces via pricing would spur the necessary substitutions/shifts/innovations. And that we'll never run out of oil because as it became more scare, the price would rise accordingly such that it eventually would be used for only the richest of endeavors. Fresh water on the other hand is seemingly a tragedy of the commons, and largely not yet subjected to market forces. That will need to change. Spot on about debt however and the brick-wall we're going to hit financially. Great, thought-provoking interview.
  • LJ
    Lucille J.
    21 April 2017 @ 23:59
  • js
    jacob s.
    21 April 2017 @ 03:43
    real vision needs to understand that the people that need these lesson cannot pay 15 dollars a month. i am studying for the CFA and I can barely pay my fucking rent.
    • BS
      Buy100oz S.
      21 April 2017 @ 12:13
      Sounds like an excuse 1) There is a lot of free information available on the internet so firstly real vision isn't an absolute requirement 2) $15 student rate isn't excessive. Consider the amount people spend on "special days" including alcohol, taxis, going out, their other half etc....just make some sort of sacrifice. Money isn't usually an issue, how its spent usually is.
    • MM
      Michael M.
      21 April 2017 @ 21:46
      This is nonsense. Even if realvision was free most people wouldn't bother using it. The direction of history is determined by <10% of people who actually show up, embrace that and be one of those people.
    • GS
      Gordon S.
      21 April 2017 @ 22:04
      Maybe studying for a CFA isn't a good investment either? :)
  • TT
    Timothy T.
    21 April 2017 @ 00:00
    Great interview except energy. Cannot disagree more about his assumptions on energy. No energy discoveries?: Permian, Bakken, Eagleford, etc. We've had more energy discoveries the past 5-7 years than we have had the previous 20. I won't even go into progress in solar (cost/watt) and battery tech (cost/kwh) advances which are tremendous and continue trending in that direction. IMO, oil will be a less important commodity over the coming decade or two. Also, energy transitions are accelerating. Wood to coal was slow. Coal to oil was faster. Oil to NG, nuke, alternative is even faster. Tech is progressing at an accelerating rate.
    • KA
      Kevin A.
      21 April 2017 @ 01:29
      + East African Rift and Leviathan of the coast of Isreal.
    • C
      Christian .
      21 April 2017 @ 16:52
      I completly agree that his oil thougts are incorrect...solar/wind/batteries/elec cars/natural gas are real and here to stay and grow
    • GS
      Gordon S.
      21 April 2017 @ 21:58
      Yes, Diego Parrilla's Interview (https://www.realvision.com/channel/realvision/videos/54fdcdf871783d1048138bf5) also shows a far different energy landscape. Again pleading for the opening of the "RV debate" section to open! Having discussion and listening are great ways to engage, and again tremendous thanks to RV for enabling that, but I could see having a debate between two people having opposing views on a subject such as this one, to also possible add tremendous value.
  • BB
    Bojo B.
    21 April 2017 @ 21:25
    Brilliant! Chris provided the entrance for my going down the rabbit hole in 2010, and I still think he is one of THE deepest thinkers, plus he has very solid integrity and great presentation. I loved the part about ''to the extent you bring your emotional signature into it, is the extent you are going to lose people''.
  • RM
    Ron M.
    21 April 2017 @ 20:56
    The most recent cleantech cycle has only recently bottomed, nearly 10 years after the GFC. And, it's still a bad word for most investors. Awesome to have Chris on RV to remind us of the physical limits of our planet and how we should consider this in all of our actions and investments. Best interview this year for sure.
  • tW
    tgwtom W.
    21 April 2017 @ 16:24
    Very good. The vibe of the conversation made me think, seriously, that Tim Ferriss should take this interview,whole, and rebroadcast(re-podcast) it. With your permission, of course :)
  • PM
    Patrick M.
    21 April 2017 @ 16:09
    Consider my paradigm shifted
  • VM
    Vincent M.
    21 April 2017 @ 15:24
    The greatest impact on standard of living is energy... how many horses would be needed to service Amazon deliveries for one day. The key to energy for us (the world) is efficiency not just substitution. Take electric cars, they will still need a power source but are efficient in that they can be charged during non-peak hours ( night) making peak electric demand less of an issue. His comments on living lighter ( less of an ecological impact) will be the most important step in the next 50 years as agriculture is a huge user of energy. Farm to Table and small family gardens are a huge trend and better for all.
  • SS
    S S.
    21 April 2017 @ 14:52
    best interview on real vision in 2017
  • RE
    Rob E.
    21 April 2017 @ 13:22
    Great interview which certainly resonates with my situation.. Aussie Gen Y somewhat down the rabbit hole attempting to 'educate' my spouse on where we are at in a finite world
  • DP
    David P.
    21 April 2017 @ 09:45
    Finally someone to talk about the relationship between primary energy and GDP. Some good data from an energy consultant based on the BP statistical review down there: (for the US) https://jancovici.com/en/energy-transition/long-series/usa-2/
  • RF
    Richard F.
    21 April 2017 @ 05:02
    Just FYI. The first chart you put up on Debt growth to GDP growth is mislabeled. The Debt curve should be the one on top (growing the fastest) and the GDP is the lower curve. (i.e. not growing as fast as the debt).
  • SN
    Sean N.
    21 April 2017 @ 04:37
    Some good thoughts and perspectives here. I especially appreciate the concept around social capital.... so important. I'm all for challenging people's belief systems and hopefully helping them to become more resilient, but it feels to me like he's maybe a little too confident in his predictions of how the future will unfold.
  • EL
    Elizabeth L.
    20 April 2017 @ 21:21
    Deeply grateful for this conversation. This is an acknowledgement of the world most humans live in, the real world of human exchange for the purpose of assisting one another. Some humans in Federal Reserve, Wall Street, etc type organizations have built a thought world that is so far extended from the world we live in that it will under it's own unreality collapse. Then there are some who think what we need is population growth to serve as an economic engine of growth. That puts the cart before the horse. Economic relationships among people exist to serve people. People do not exist to serve economic growth and financial markets. We need sustainable economies, sustainable environments and sustainable societies.
    • MV
      Michael V.
      21 April 2017 @ 01:18
      This is a great comment, and it's something I think about a lot. One thing I wonder is, if/when another (or worse) GFC comes, who believes in our system enough now to save it?
  • SC
    Shane C.
    21 April 2017 @ 00:14
    I havent even finished this vide, but I love it. Im assuming he mentions education standards...pretty cool (depressing link below) http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Others/Others-Doc-BetterLiving/+Doc-BetterLiving-General&Msc/8thGradeFinalExam-SalinaKS1895.htm
  • EK
    Emil K.
    20 April 2017 @ 21:59
    It's really quite something that the scariest videos I watch are not on Netflix in the horror section but Real Vision interviews. Reasoned, educated people speaking about the state of the world are more disturbing than a hoard of zombies. Interview of the Year nominee.
  • CG
    Christine G.
    20 April 2017 @ 21:43
    One of your best presentations. Many of the components of his model have been presented elsewhere, including at RV. RV presenters as a whole have maintained a blind eye to environmental issues so I was glad to hear some discussion of that. He pulls these components together well in a larger model. I kept listening for other connections which he may have made in his books. One is to make explicit the relationship between energy as an extraction-based industry and the environment. As with all complex dynamic systems, there are feedback loops between the environment and oil/gas production which makes precise prediction impossible. But we can identify some of these feedback loops. For example, all pipelines, including deep-sea pipelines leak after they have been sealed and after accidents and break-downs; some of these leaks will continue in perpetuity and will be toxic to their environments. That should give us pause in authorizing any new under-sea wells. Fracking causes earthquakes and contaminates underground aquifers, which can pollute waters again into perpetuity. Another point that was not made was the social aspects. On some level we are all in this together. As we think about what to do with any discretionary funds, it might be helpful to think of organizations that are trying to mitigate long-term costs, this can include small NGOs like seed banks and environmental groups. This might also mean expanding your listeners. People who have a lot of money invested in the current system may be particularly hard to reach. Another component is the spiritual. The essence of all spiritual systems is that we are part of something larger and that our personal relationship to that larger reality is important and should effect our relationship with other sentient beings. This is important for our own personal well-being and for our understanding of reality. I don't think your model would be difficult for people with a deep spiritual orientation. In this context Ayn Rand is an interesting person especially in light of her influence on Paul Ryan and many other political conservatives. She created a world in which being or acting like a sociopath is moral; this flies in the face of all of human history and understanding of our morality. As long as that view is ascendant, no social/political change is possible. It must be confronted and countered. As we look at the past in order to learn from mistakes, the Fed is due for criticism as you mentioned. Another major mistake has been ignoring science and environmental issues. You mentioned Jimmy Carter and that we would be in a different place if his concerns had been taken to heart. You also need to mention Al Gore, another popular-vote winner; it is hard to imagine where we would be if we had not had the Iraqi war, which was illegal and very costly, and if we had focused on environmental issues instead. This brings in another political body that needs to be called out, the Supreme Court. The Court has changed our democratic system in three major decisions; the first involved meddling in the Gore/Bush election rather than letting the Florida Supreme court finish investigating (it was going in a very different direction), the Citizens United decision which we have seen has allowed big money to have an unholy effect on the democratic process, and knocking down the Voting Rights Law, which has lead to restrictions on voting rights for people of color. The Supreme Court has wounded democracy and as we go into a severe recession, we may not be able to get it back. All of these things are part and parcel of our current reality.
  • AH
    Andreas H.
    20 April 2017 @ 20:11
    super interview!
  • RE
    Rachel E.
    20 April 2017 @ 20:02
  • KE
    Kenan E.
    20 April 2017 @ 18:52
    I LOVE crazy persons!!! ;-) Thank you for having Chris Martenson. I think the story he is telling has to be heard by as many people as possible. I realized how money-creation really works in 2009 and then I fell in this rabbit hole, realized that the whole system was a scan... Since then nearly everything changed for me -- and I am very happy with those changes.
    • WS
      Wm S.
      20 April 2017 @ 19:47
      I, too, am down the rabbit hole. It's not exactly standing-room-only...yet. :)
  • WS
    Wm S.
    20 April 2017 @ 19:46
    Delighted to see RVT interview someone coming from Chris Martenson's POV, by which I mean a fully macro approach addressing philosophical questions in addition to the viability of this or that system, market sector or country, central bank policy, economic policy/development. Top notch interviewer + interviewee. Would love to listen to Aaron and Grant kick around this interview on Adventures in Finance. So many entry points...
  • RA
    Ricardo A.
    20 April 2017 @ 19:41
    Smart and intellectually honest person. Highly recommend his podcast as well
  • dd
    darrell d.
    20 April 2017 @ 19:18
    Always a good conversation with Chris M. Start in one place and end in other.
  • DK
    Daniel K.
    20 April 2017 @ 19:02
    This interview is great and I'm just offering a suggestion for a future guest whose book was referenced- G. Edward Griffin. It would be really interesting to hear his thoughts on the current problems in the monetary system.
  • IJ
    Ian J.
    20 April 2017 @ 18:28
    Long Convexity
  • GM
    Greg M.
    20 April 2017 @ 18:21
    I was researching thorium reactors last year. That was the surprising to hear. Lets go get some monazite sand! I highly recommend this interview, it gives great insight into the underlying human psychology.
  • HJ
    Harry J.
    20 April 2017 @ 16:57
    Maybe insurmountable today it the norm for younger generations. Good conversation as always Grant. Thanks RVTV