Fred Hickey – Part Two

Published on
September 25th, 2015
59 minutes

Fred Hickey – Part Two

The Interview ·
Featuring Fred Hickey

Published on: September 25th, 2015 • Duration: 59 minutes

In Part Two of this riveting conversation, founder and writer of The High Tech Strategist Fred Hickey continues his discussion with Real Vision, exploring the smartphone market with insights into Apple and their supply-chain 'Apple Dumplings', how he approaches fairly assessing the value of unicorns, and why he, a life-long tech investor, is suddenly very interested in gold.


  • mm
    mark m.
    22 December 2016 @ 18:23
    at 15:30 remaining, he is talking about usdcad, but the overlaid chart is usdcny. oops.
  • DH
    Dale H.
    20 June 2016 @ 04:57
    Thought I would do something interesting for an hour this afternoon, so I watched this again. Love Fred's enthusiasm and deep understanding/research. Would be great to have Fred on again about now (June 20, 16). There is so much happening now that I would love to hear him talk about - and predict from here. Thanks for having Fred on RV. Great interviewing Grant.
  • BE
    Baha E.
    29 April 2016 @ 00:07
    Yes, there is an overbought market but I think in, in general, he is underestimating the big data story. Just because it is not tangible doesn't mean it is not valuable.
  • PJ
    Peter J.
    29 March 2016 @ 16:33
    Great interview!!, jeez can Fred Hickey talk though, I forgot Grant was there for about 30 minutes
  • LA
    Linda A.
    15 January 2016 @ 19:25
    Thanks Fred, I too learned quickly with covering shorts quickly with momentum stocks. Love your common sense! Grant, u are a great interviewer!
  • RA
    Ricardo A.
    26 November 2015 @ 22:30
    Very very smart guy, impressive how he knows all the numbers and % by heart.
  • CC
    Christopher C.
    28 October 2015 @ 00:27
    The apple dumplings ride again (into a glass wall) Kudos sir.
  • DM
    Dennis M.
    25 October 2015 @ 18:17
    Excellent content. Fred is outstanding. Much to think about from this piece. Realvision is one of the best ideas and one of my best investments. Keep up the excellent work!
  • AA
    ALI A.
    20 October 2015 @ 10:52
    Wish he'd stick to Tech
  • Rd
    Rheece d.
    16 October 2015 @ 14:02
    Fantastic interview. Fred Hickey explains things in such a digestible manner. Really insightful and some excellent trade ideas to think about.
  • JA
    John A.
    15 October 2015 @ 03:08
    "The exports penalty box." Brilliant!
  • PT
    Peter T.
    11 October 2015 @ 04:21
    Apple Dumplings
  • LC
    Liliana C.
    6 October 2015 @ 06:06
    Grant, I adore you! Thanks for asking the g $$d questions!
  • DM
    Daniel M.
    2 October 2015 @ 06:01
    Well both bearish broad indices.
  • DM
    Daniel M.
    2 October 2015 @ 06:01
    ( cont) They both seem bearish short term, intermediate term on everything.
  • DM
    Daniel M.
    2 October 2015 @ 06:00
    IMHO people mistake Burbank/hickey being tech bull vs bear. Burbank was talking great growth areas AFTER this liquidity event -so long term. Hickey is more a value guy & never touched on "after".
  • KT
    Kevin T.
    1 October 2015 @ 17:33
    Loved it. Agree on panels. Barry Ritholz's thoughts on gold vs... everyone else? Maybe Raoul backs him up with some strong dollar talk? Grant sometimes plays devils advocate, like that.
  • sp
    shashwat p.
    30 September 2015 @ 05:56
    what a contrast this is with john burbank..
  • SJ
    Suzanne J.
    29 September 2015 @ 02:22
    I am sooo pleased I subscribed to RVTV. That was sensational. Thank you Fred Hickey for you passion and willingness to share. Great interview, Grant.
  • TM
    The-First-James M.
    28 September 2015 @ 12:03
    Just giving my tuppence worth on Joshua's point that for Gold to make a bottom, the Gold Bugs need to have been killed. How does a 75 - 95% in the Gold miners since 2011 equate to NOT being killed?!
  • KS
    Kashyap S.
    28 September 2015 @ 09:02
    Surprised he mentioned GG and AEM but not the royalty companies like FNV and OR. Great interview. As an amateur dabbling in the gold miner space, this corroboration is a huge confidence-booster for me
  • fc
    frank c.
    27 September 2015 @ 21:01
    Brilliant! Thank you!!
  • sa
    santosh a.
    27 September 2015 @ 19:15
    Great interview. I like Fred's straightforward thinking and communication style. I hope Grant will interview him at least once a year.
  • SS
    Stewart S.
    27 September 2015 @ 18:06
    excellent understanding on how to make money
  • tW
    tgwtom W.
    27 September 2015 @ 16:27
    Loved it.
  • LS
    Lorenz S.
    27 September 2015 @ 09:17
    Absolutely brilliant interview! I second Miguel's point. Would like to see contrarian matchups.
  • MR
    27 September 2015 @ 05:25
    what RV is desperately missing is a panel discussion, it would be fascinating to watch Fred Hickey (bearish) talk tech with John Burbank (bullish) . instead of interview, a dialectic
  • AD
    Anthony D.
    27 September 2015 @ 02:45
    Fred's summary of the state of monetary affairs is so eloquent. His passion is founded in the fundamental data which he commands at his finger tips. Even Bill Fleckenstein never said it better.
  • GW
    Grant W. | Founder
    27 September 2015 @ 02:07
    CORRECTION: Fred's newsletter is both brilliant AND available to new subscribers. For subscription inquiries please email Kathy at: I promise you'll be glad you did!!
  • RA
    Robert A.
    26 September 2015 @ 17:02
    For Graham, To maximize return indeed "pick one", but for the rest of us scaredy cats what's wrong with the old Harry Browne "part Gold and part US Dollar" as no one knows the final chapter yet?
  • DP
    David P.
    26 September 2015 @ 16:03
    From one New Hampshire guy to another: thank you, Fred Hickey, for an outstanding interview--so much practical wisdom and common sense. You have given us long-suffering gold bulls reason to live!
  • MC
    Mike C.
    26 September 2015 @ 14:26
    Being a technical trader, I certainly find it difficult to understand the many conflicting data points. No dis respect to Fred but there are far too many assumptions regarding WHY things should occur.
  • GT
    Graham T.
    26 September 2015 @ 13:08
    I want to believe I just don't see how the Dollar and Gold can both be King. Either you believe in fiat currencies or you don't. One or the other, not both.
  • TH
    Timo H.
    26 September 2015 @ 08:01
    One can't really think and communicate clearer than Fred does.
  • JZ
    Joshua Z.
    26 September 2015 @ 04:39
    I agree with Fred's analysis regarding gold. Gold will likely surpass the old high and end in a bubble. Before that happens, the gold bugs and preppers need to get killed. Then we will have a bottom.
  • JZ
    Joshua Z.
    26 September 2015 @ 04:29
    Grant did a great job in this interview. He asked questions but gave Fred the room to go about his thoughts. Fred was very insightful. More guests should give trade ideas like Fred.
  • DL
    Derek L.
    25 September 2015 @ 23:15
    Been a follower of Fred's for several years now. One of the best and clearest investment minds we amateurs have access too. I'm betting that his thinking will soon be validated.
  • JD
    John D.
    25 September 2015 @ 21:34
    Hi Guys - any people interested in looking into gold miners should look at the massive # of webcast company presentations from the just ended Denver Gold Forum this week. All online now. Cheers John
  • SS
    Sam S.
    25 September 2015 @ 21:28
    Excellent------I love his passion and straight forward approach. Brings back memories of my days with Motorola. Newsletter website address? All the best.
  • WM
    William M.
    25 September 2015 @ 20:23
    AEM and GG. by his criteria, NGD - 80% Canada worth considering too. Good interview!
  • AS
    Alexander S.
    25 September 2015 @ 19:37
    Great one! Did anyone get the ticker of the goldminers?
  • BL
    Bruce L.
    25 September 2015 @ 19:24
    I am standing and applauding.
  • TW
    Thomas W.
    25 September 2015 @ 19:13
    This may have been the best RV interview ever and that's saying something, given the great number of superb interviews to date. Fred Hickey is everything you'd want in an analyst. Remarkable.
  • lb
    larry b.
    25 September 2015 @ 18:46
    his newsletter is great but hearing him is even better. between him and fleckenstein worth the price of the subscription. please get them both back on regular basis.
  • WM
    Will M.
    25 September 2015 @ 18:39
    Great interview, as good an analysis as i have heard elsewhere. gave us some great tips for a gamble in the casino called Wall St. Great stuff RV and Grant W.
  • KD
    Ken D.
    25 September 2015 @ 18:16
    Wonderful interview!
  • JC
    Joseph C.
    25 September 2015 @ 18:03
    great interview. wish we could have heard his opinion on digital currencies, namely bitcoin.
  • TJ
    Terry J.
    25 September 2015 @ 17:37
    Invaluable insights not just on tech companies but gold and gold miners too. To have the privilege of hearing Hickey and Burbank in the same week is awesome!
  • DK
    Daniel K.
    25 September 2015 @ 17:30
    Is High-Tech Strategist still available for new people? I am interested in subscribing.
  • db
    don b.
    25 September 2015 @ 17:29
    Great interview Grant, one of the best so far. I like the fact that Fred is a long term guy and recognizes that success is a long term proposition. It takes character & patience to accumulate wealth.
  • CD
    Colin D.
    25 September 2015 @ 16:55
    I had been watching out for this. Like Fred and his thinking so much so that I am now a subscriber to the High-Tech Strategist. Thanks RV - another great interview. I hope people heed his warnings

Mark Yusko

Morgan Creek Capital Management, Co- Founder, CEO, & CIO

Mark Yuskois the Founder, CEO and Chief Investment Officer of Morgan Creek Capital Management. He is also the Managing Partner of Morgan Creek Digital Assets. Morgan Creek Capital Management was founded in 2004 and currently manages close to $2 billion in discretionary and non-discretionary assets. Prior to founding Morgan Creek, Mr. Yusko was CIO and Founder of UNC Management Company (UNCMC), the Endowment investment office for the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Before that, he was Senior Investment Director for the University of Notre Dame Investment Office.Mr. Yusko has been at the forefront of institutional investing throughout his career. An early investor in alternative asset classes at Notre Dame, he brought the Endowment Model of investing to UNC, which contributed to significant performance gains for the Endowment. The Endowment Model is the cornerstone philosophy of Morgan Creek, as is the mandate to Invest in Innovation. Mr. Yusko is again at the forefront of investing through Morgan Creek Digital Assets, which was formed in 2018. Morgan Creek Digital is an early stage investor in blockchain technology, digital currency and digital assets through the firm’s Venture Capital and Digital Asset Index Fund.Mr. Yusko received a BA with Honors from the University of Notre Dame and an MBA in Accounting and Finance from the University of Chicago.

Anthony Scaramucci

SkyBridge Capital, Founder & Co-Managing Partner

Prior to founding SkyBridge in 2005, Scaramucci co-founded investment partnership Oscar Capital Management, which was sold to Neuberger Berman, LLC in 2001. Earlier, he was a vice president in Private Wealth Management at Goldman Sachs & Co. In 2016, Scaramucci was ranked #85 in Worth Magazine’sPower 100: The 100 Most Powerful People in Global Finance. In 2011, he received Ernst & Young’s “Entrepreneur of the Year –New York” Award in the Financial Services category. Anthony is amember of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), vice chair of the Kennedy Center Corporate Fund Board, a board member of both The Brain Tumor Foundation and Business Executives for National Security (BENS), and a Trustee of the United States Olympic & Paralympic Foundation. He was a member of the New York City Financial Services Advisory Committee from 2007 to 2012. In November 2016, he was named to President-Elect Trump’s 16-person Presidential Transition Team Executive Committee. In June 2017, he wasnamed the Chief Strategy Officer of the EXIM Bank. He served as the White House Communications Director for a period in July 2017. Scaramucci, a native of Long Island, New York, holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in Economics from Tufts University and a Juris Doctor from Harvard Law School.

Michael Saylor

MicroStrategy, Co-Founder

Mr. Saylor is a technologist, entrepreneur, business executive, philanthropist, and best-selling author. He currently serves as Chairman of the Board of Directors and Chief Executive Office of MicroStrategy, Inc. (MSTR). Since co-founding the company at the age of 24, Mr. Saylor has built MicroStrategy into a global leader in business intelligence, mobile software, and cloud-based services. In 2012, he authoredThe Mobile Wave: How Mobile Intelligence Will Change Everything, which earned a spot onThe NewYork TimesBest Sellers list. Mr. Saylor attended the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, receiving an S.B. in Aeronautics and Astronautics and an S.B. in Science, Technology, and Society.

Alex Saunders

Nugget's News, Founder & CEO

Alex Saunders is the founder and CEO of Nugget’s News, a digital media company focused on all things crypto. Alex has been captivated by cryptocurrency since 2012 and in 2017 he began educating globally on the benefits of cryptocurrency and how to safely acquireit. Nugget’s News has been listed as a top-20 podcast by Business Insider, ShapeShift and Lifehacker and has over 120k YouTube subscribers with 9 million total views.Alex is also heavily focused on his cryptocurrency education platform Collective Shift which currently serves over 4,500 members. provides his unique perspectives by utilising his expertise in fundamental analysis, technical analysis and market sentiment. He is working towards his mission of making it easier for everyone to understand the financial world.

James Putra

TradeStation Crypto, Inc., Sr. Director of Product Strategy

James helped launch TradeStation Crypto’s offeringwhichutilizesa true online brokerage model that self-directed investors and traders have come to expect for equities, futures,and foreign currency markets. He is a reputed crypto asset specialist and blockchain thought leader focused on helping people find innovativeways to participate in this space. He is active in the blockchain community with speaking engagements, TV appearances and mentoring.James has over 15 years of experience in the Fintech industry.

Raoul Pal

Real Vision, Co-Founder & CEO

Raoul Pal is the Co-Founder and CEO of Real Vision, the world’s pre-eminent financial media platform, which helps members understand the complex world of finance, business, and the global economy. Real Vision members also have access to Real Vision Crypto, a cryptocurrency and digital assets video channelwatched by over 80,000 people.In addition, Raoul has been publishing Global Macro Investor since January 2005 to provide original, high quality, quantifiable and easily readable research for the global macro investment community hedge funds, family offices, pension funds and sovereign wealth funds. It draws on his considerable 31 years of experience in advising hedge funds and managing a global macro hedge fund. Global Macro Investor has one of the very best, proven track records of any newsletter in the industry, producing extremely positive returns in eight out of the last twelve years. He retired from managing client money at the age of 36 in 2004 and now lives in the tiny Caribbean island of Little Cayman in the Cayman Islands. Previously he co-managed the GLG Global Macro Fund in London for GLG Partners, one of the largest hedge fund groups in the world. Raoul moved to GLG from Goldman Sachs where he co-managed the hedge fund sales business in Equities and Equity Derivatives in Europe. In this role, Raoul established strong relationships with many of the world’s pre-eminent hedge funds, learning from their styles and experiences. Other stop-off points on the way were NatWest Markets and HSBC, although hebegan his career by training traders in technical analysis.

Peter McCormack

What Bitcoin Did, Journalist

Peter McCormack is a full timejournalist/podcaster covering topics such as Freedom, Human Rights, Censorship and Bitcoin. Peter created and hosts the What Bitcoin Did Podcast, a twice-weekly Bitcoin podcast where he interviews experts in the world of Bitcoin development, privacy, investment and adoption. Launched in November of 2017, the podcast has grown to over 100 episodes with a guest list that is a testament to the diversity of knowledge and opinions that represent the broader Bitcoin community. Expanding his growing list of humaninterest recordings, documentaries and films Peter has recently launched theDefiancepodcast andDefianceTV.

Caitlin Long

Avanti Financial Group, Founder & CEO

22-year Wall Street veteran who has been active in bitcoin and blockchain since 2012. In 2018-20 she led the charge to make her native state of Wyoming an oasis for blockchain companies in the US, where she helped Wyoming enact 20 blockchain-enabling laws. From 2016-18 she jointly spearheaded a blockchain project for delivering market index data to Vanguard as chairman and president of Symbiont, an enterprise blockchain start-up. Caitlin ran Morgan Stanley’s pension solutions business (2007-2016), heldsenior roles at Credit Suisse (1997-2007) and began her career at Salomon Brothers (1994-1997). She is a graduate of Harvard Law School (JD, 1994), the Kennedy School of Government (MPP, 1994) and the University of Wyoming (BA, 1990).

Hunter Horsley

Bitwise Asset Management, CEO

Hunter Horsley is Chief Executive Officer of Bitwise Asset Management. Prior to Bitwise, he was a product manager at Facebook, working on advertiser products including the multibillion-dollar sponsored content ecosystem and ad breaks in videos. Before Facebook, Horlsey was a product manager at Instagram, responsible for multiple advertising products generating several hundred million dollars of revenue. He is a graduate of the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania, with a B.S. in economics. Recently, Horsley was named a member of Forbes’ 2019 “30 Under 30” list.

Luke Gromen

Forest For The Trees, Founder & President

Luke Gromen has 25 years of experience in equity research, equity research sales, and as a macro/thematic analyst.He is the founder and president of macro/thematic research firm FFTT, LLC, which he founded in early 2014 to address and leverage the opportunity he saw created by applying what clientsand former colleagues consistently described as a “unique ability to connect the dots” during a time when he saw an increasing “silo-ing” of perspectives occurring on Wall Street and in corporate America.FFTT caters to institutions and sophisticated individuals by aggregating a wide variety of macroeconomic, thematic and sector trends in an unconventional manner to identify investable developing economic bottlenecks for his clients.Prior to founding FFTT, Luke was a founding partner of Cleveland Research Company, where he worked from 2006-14.At CRC, Luke worked in sales and edited CRC’s flagship weekly thematic research summary piece (“Straight from the Source”)for the firm’s clients.Prior to that,Luke was a partner at Midwest Research, where he worked in equity research and sales from 1996-2006.While in sales, Luke was a founding editor of Midwest’s widely-read weekly thematic summary (“Heard in the Midwest”) for the firm’s clients, in whichhe aggregated and combined proprietary research from Midwest with inputs from other sources.Luke Gromen holds a BBA in Finance and Accounting from the University of Cincinnati and received his MBA from Case Western Reserve University.He earned the CFA designation in 2003.

Meltem Demirors

CoinShares, Chief Strategy Officer

Meltem Demirors is Chief Strategy Officer of CoinShares, an investment firm that manages billions in assets on behalf of a global investor base, and is a trusted partner to investors and entrepreneurs navigating the digital asset ecosystem. Meltemoversees the firm’s managed strategies group and its New York office and leads corporate development. Previously, she was part of the founding team of Digital Currency Group. As a veteran investor in the digital currency space, she has invested in over 250 companies in the ecosystem. Meltem is passionate about education and advocacy, and teaches the Oxford Blockchain Strategy Programme and co-chairs the WEF Cryptocurrency Council.