Kaplan and Rule: The Golden Ticket

Published on
October 30th, 2020
61 minutes

Kaplan and Rule: The Golden Ticket

The Interview ·
Featuring Thomas Kaplan and Rick Rule

Published on: October 30th, 2020 • Duration: 61 minutes

Dr. Thomas Kaplan, chairman of The Electrum Group and executive chairman of Panthera Corporation, joins Rick Rule, President & CEO of Sprott U.S. Holdings, to discuss the opportunities he sees at this juncture for precious metals and precious metals miners. After Kaplan regales Rule with tales of his epic call on silver in 1992, which turned many heads including that of George Soros, Kaplan shares why he believes gold offers a "generational opportunity" in 2020 that can offer 10x-20x returns. As developing nations threaten to nationalize mines, Kaplan has allocated away from emerging markets to concentrate his investments in America, Canada, and Australia, warning simply that the "era of the frontier mentality is over." Filmed on October 26, 2020. Key takeaways: Opportunities in precious metals are many and promising, but jurisdictional risks lurk. Kaplan sees nationalization of mines as a major threat in emerging markets, warning that the "era of the frontier mentality is over."



  • jl
    johan l.
    17 January 2021 @ 19:20
    wow.. first impression of Thomas Kaplan wasn't good, but boy was I wrong. Terrific stuff.
  • RD
    R D.
    3 November 2020 @ 09:39
    Is there a list out there of gold and silver miners that get their production exclusively from North America and Australia?
    • TW
      Troy W.
      18 December 2020 @ 13:39
      There are on the ASX - SBM, EVN, NST to name some standouts that focus all their mining in Australia and North America, particularly Canada.
  • MW
    Matthew W.
    8 December 2020 @ 13:14
    I've spent most of my life working in secure units with disturbed kids and violent offenders. I've met every sort of twisted psychopath, liar, fraud, narcissist, criminal etc etc that you could imagine and many that you couldn't. And Kaplan sets my alarms off. A psychologist would have a field day on him and I don't think you have to be Sigmund Freud to figure out that there's something very wrong here. The word narcissist has been massively overused recently but seems appropriate here and that's about the kindest label you could pin on him.
    • TW
      Troy W.
      18 December 2020 @ 13:35
      Not sure about that. He specifically talked about the role luck had played in his success. Narcissists don't do that.
  • WD
    Wyatt D.
    13 December 2020 @ 02:48
    Fascinating. Great interview
  • TT
    Tokyo T.
    30 October 2020 @ 09:55
    All Kaplan interviews are the same. 1) Oxford education summary from 30 years ago. 2) Long Gold and mining recap. 3) Big Cats. I've never seen an interview that doesn't follow this format. Is there anybody in financial media that has the courage to go outside of these topics, or does Kaplan agree to be interviewed only if this format is followed?
    • MW
      Matthew W.
      8 December 2020 @ 13:21
      Thank God at least one other viewer of this video has seen through this snake.
  • MO
    Mathias O.
    1 December 2020 @ 21:40
    the ruler!!
  • BB
    Ben B.
    2 November 2020 @ 05:56
    Hi Tom, I disagree, there still is a lot of gold in good jurisdictions. There just needed to be a way to get it out that is fundamentally different to how we mine at the moment. If I could get the chance to explain this to you I would be very grateful. You can get my contact details off Damian Horner.
    • SM
      Siddharth M.
      30 November 2020 @ 19:36
      Yes, if gold jumps there will be pressure to change the rules so it doesn't take 10 years to mine it. Still, it will take time to change these rules and we will see that coming.
  • JJ
    Jeff J.
    20 November 2020 @ 01:41
    Chicken soup for my gold and silver portfolio.
  • RM
    Ross M.
    13 November 2020 @ 07:08
    Watching this video I felt like I suddenly became nearsighted and watched two Leopards contemplate eating Liberace for an hour, Good interview but might want to improve the focus.
  • HS
    Henry S.
    6 November 2020 @ 22:08
    Full of superlatives and resume talk. I'll pass on future discussions with this person. Rick Rule is fine, though.
  • TK
    Timothy K.
    6 November 2020 @ 03:09
    This was incredible and such an interesting life story. I'm going to continue accumulating AGQ.
  • DY
    Damian Y.
    4 November 2020 @ 02:10
    Thomas is a real gentleman and a scholar, a very rare breed these days.
  • NL
    Nicholas L.
    1 November 2020 @ 22:16
    I could listen to Kaplan speak for hours - please bring him back again soon!
    • JF
      Jack F. | Real Vision
      3 November 2020 @ 17:53
      Glad you enjoyed, Nicholas. Thomas is a busy man but we will do our best!
  • BH
    Brett H.
    3 November 2020 @ 15:41
    Quite simply changed by view on mining, especially considering geopolitical risk adjustment. Brilliant insights from Kaplan and what a great educator and story teller. Thank you Rick for a fantastic interview!
  • JT
    Jayne T.
    2 November 2020 @ 17:20
    I’m having trouble putting together the statements of two great minds. Kiril Sokoloff says that “The profits of the gold miners are literally going to be just phenomenal. The all-in cost of production is roughly $1,000 an ounce, and here you are at $1,900.” Yet Mr. Kaplan says that “So then the question is, why would you want to own gold? Now, my favorite argument for owning gold is that the mining industry itself is such a disaster. “. Could someone far more savvy than myself explain this contradiction? Thanks!
    • mw
      michael w.
      2 November 2020 @ 22:25
      That's why they are priced as such.
    • GA
      Gerald A.
      2 November 2020 @ 22:27
      Sokoloff has access to all the most knowledgeable people in the mining industry, to help him avoid the 90% of the industry which is a disaster....the stuff Kaplan is talking about. Often attributed to Mark Twain: A gold mine is a hole in the ground with a liar on top.
    • SA
      Sebastian A.
      3 November 2020 @ 09:15
      there isn't enough new mine development to keep up with the cycles to keep them gentle, thus the price of PMs goes out of whack with extreme volatility, allowing for great profits to be made during the correct times of said cycles.
  • FL
    Fabrizio L.
    2 November 2020 @ 11:19
    simply brilliant, both host and guest! thanks.
  • MM
    MAX M.
    30 October 2020 @ 08:19
    Difficult to top that interview. Passion. Where do passion and intuition meet? Which comes first?
    • MM
      MAX M.
      2 November 2020 @ 09:52
      Wasn't a rhetorical question.
  • CB
    Chris B.
    30 October 2020 @ 19:56
    Really outstanding interview. Double thumbs up! I find Dr. Kaplan always interesting to listen to. I also also get value from Rick Rule, in this case as an interviewer.
    • MM
      MAX M.
      2 November 2020 @ 09:42
      Yeah! He let the man speak. Bit of a novelty for an interviewer.
  • DS
    David S.
    30 October 2020 @ 22:30
    With the cost of the pandemic to all levels of government, it is possible that even Australia, the US and Canada will have to go after all the revenue they can get also. I have followed Dr. Kaplan's advice and have gold miners in these jurisdictions as the best chance. I do have one question about Nova Gold, I hope it is not inappropriate in this setting. Dr. Kaplan discusses the mining operations in NG in Alaska to begin when the price of gold gets to a certain level. To my knowledge Dr. Kaplan has not discussed what that level is. I know there are many variables. I believe I heard somewhere that Barrick Gold, a partner, said that they did not include revenue from NG in the next seven to ten years in there cash flow. (I am sorry if I am wrong in this memory.) I have had some NG in my portfolio since Dr. Kaplan's first appearance which has increased in value. I would like to know if the seven to ten-year time frame mentioned is also Dr. Kaplan's time frame. Thanks, DLS
    • AR
      Alexander R.
      31 October 2020 @ 00:08
      I can not speak for Dr Kaplan, and maybe I get it totally wrong, but he mentioned that nothing will be done till gold is 3000-5000$ dollars, as he has no intention to support Indian/Chinese consumption of gold at the low prices. I think he could/would be in any assets( nothing special about gold ) and you can imagine he is not short on the money, NG is his way to get out of US $ into gold, not the trade to get dollars back, at least till currency crisis is not over, which might be few years away. Remember he is historian, and there is nothing new under the sun, excessive debt and currency debasement is as old as humans, one would argue it is just part of been human. I would not be surprised if they do not build mine in 5-10 years, and maybe Dr Kaplan would not be even part of building the mine. Baric will do a better job :) If you want gold producing mine there are lots of them : PVG, AGI, KL, AEM, EQX just to name a few all in "safe" jurisdictions. All I know i NG is one of the best call option on gold price, and I would buy and hold it for as long as Dr Kaplan does, and sell it once he does. It probably will go up X10 at the end, and once he is out, it would be an early call for the end of bull market in gold. Remember smart investors are always early.
    • DS
      David S.
      31 October 2020 @ 02:22
      Alexander R. - Thanks for your comment. I believe you are correct. I have some other safe gold miners in stock and in long-dated options. It keeps me from going crazy. Your comment helps me to understand NG better. I will add some as time goes by. Thanks again for your comment. DLS
    • GA
      Gerald A.
      1 November 2020 @ 02:46
      Will there ever be a need to actually mine Donlin Creek. It is secure in the remote wilderness far from infrastructure. The gold is in a natural incredably secure "vault". Shares in the ownership of the asset will always have value. Why mine it just to move it from a natural vault to a man-made one, until one actually has too? Alternatively, will this mine be the first mine built by raising capital from the tokenization of a portion of the proven reserves.
    • MM
      MAX M.
      2 November 2020 @ 09:34
      Brilliant Gerald!
  • JC
    John C.
    2 November 2020 @ 02:01
    Well rather dandy that i had my smoking jacket on and sherry poured for this one. My only regret is that i took an early leave to chase the hounds in pursuit of a fox.
  • SM
    Sergio M.
    1 November 2020 @ 23:51
    how you let background slide? lol
  • AM
    Andrei M.
    1 November 2020 @ 22:26
    Great interview, so nice to listen to people with a wide perspective.
  • JH
    Jack H.
    1 November 2020 @ 18:22
    Fantastic, just a genuinely fascinating guy. Couldn't care less whether I got any investment advice or knowledge from that but, as a bonus, I did.
  • MD
    Matt D.
    1 November 2020 @ 03:33
    Enjoyed this interview. Thank you. Be interesting to apply the same scrutiny to BTC as per the way Dr K surrounds himself with intelligent people. Perhaps too there an analogies from the themes from this video to BTC? Sorry for the detour, but I don't think it (BTC) was even mentioned in the talk, but these days its hard not to consider gold/silver without their digital equivalent.
  • km
    kian m.
    30 October 2020 @ 11:09
    ESG =/= CSR
    • GA
      Gerald A.
      1 November 2020 @ 02:50
      What has been will be again, What has been done will be done again; There is nothing new under the sun. or less poetically, History rhymes.
  • MC
    Michael C.
    31 October 2020 @ 03:07
    Great interview. Dr. Kaplan touched on how jurisdictional risk in Canada mostly occurs at the provincial level as that is the level of government which permits are issued and revenues are taxed. Ontario and Quebec have a strong history of mining and local support / talent pool to draw from in their districts, but I would've loved to hear his or Rick's take on British Columbia and its government with respect to mining. There are a number of intriguing development and exploration plays up there in the Golden Triangle that very few generalist investors have heard of yet offer compelling risk reward investment thesis.
    • GA
      Gerald A.
      1 November 2020 @ 02:28
      There is a new federal environmental law passed recently in Canada which is "untested" in its effect on resource project development. It has the ability to reach inside a province, and forces conversations with stakeholders (mostly indigenous) before there is really anything to discuss. It might be nothing. It might be something. It clarifies and obscures things at the same time. It clarifies the independent regulatory process, but add additional hooks where the federal government can intervene to make it non-independent. i.e. It clarifies things for the friends of Justin, but it might obscure things for everyone else.
  • PJ
    Peter J.
    31 October 2020 @ 21:26
    Rick is probably my favourite go to for PMs and PM stocks, there is no one with a more in depth and balanced view IMO. I have to admit that I just didn’t get much out of Tom’s views here or on his previous interview. Obviously others did.
  • FM
    Felix M.
    31 October 2020 @ 20:24
    Bullish on BTC after this
  • RM
    Richard M.
    31 October 2020 @ 05:54
    What a brilliant discussion. The insight, historical view of the sector, the fundaments that support the outlook - simply outstanding. Being someone who has lived and worked across emerging markets - a lot of what Tom said makes eminent sense. As many have requested below - lets do a series
  • VB
    Vikram B.
    31 October 2020 @ 05:00
    Very enjoyable - Aaron Sorkin-esque RV video.
  • IM
    Indranath M.
    31 October 2020 @ 03:46
    Fascinating, wholesome interview!
  • WT
    William T.
    31 October 2020 @ 03:37
    He probably doesn't drink much beer, but when he does, does he drink Dos Equis?
  • mp
    mitchell p.
    31 October 2020 @ 03:34
  • NI
    Nate I.
    31 October 2020 @ 02:45
    Thanks to both of you for a great conversation. Much appreciated. When Dr. Kaplan returns, I would like to hear more about his framework for gold price appreciation. In this discussion he touched briefly on supply constraint, but demand must also be considered. It would be awesome if Rick Rule and Dr. Kaplan compared and contrasted their views on the future gold price. I'm also curious what Dr. Kaplan thinks about cryptocurrencies like bitcoin.
  • DB
    Daniel B.
    31 October 2020 @ 02:32
    Fascinating to learn about industries through the life experiences of a highly successful person and leader in that area.
  • JT
    John T.
    30 October 2020 @ 21:35
    This yet again cements my conviction that the only small miner for my portfolio is Ross Beaty's EQX. Aside from that I'm only long the biggest names. It is more important than ever that the owners are concerned about safe jurisdictions and/or carry considerable weight.
    • PP
      Patrick P.
      31 October 2020 @ 02:01
      John T... Totally agree on Ross Beaty EQX rated #2 by Zacks (buy) Nova Gold rated #5 by Zacks (strong sell)....Ross is a rock star.
  • OC
    O C.
    30 October 2020 @ 22:27
    Wonderful and so wholesome. Thank you for this interview.
  • CS
    Clay S.
    30 October 2020 @ 22:14
    Dr. Kaplan, or is he really Dr. Indiana Jones? What a rich life lived. Kudos.
  • GP
    Greg P.
    30 October 2020 @ 18:57
    Really enjoyed listening to two life-enhancers. Thanks
  • mh
    mark h.
    30 October 2020 @ 18:15
    Listening to these two is always enlightening, PARTICULARLY in the art of diction.
  • JP
    John P.
    30 October 2020 @ 17:15
    Great to see Rick Rule. Keep him coming back.
  • JM
    John M.
    30 October 2020 @ 17:07
    WOW! We need more history professors! Dr Kaplan is an articulate, engaging and thoughtful person. What a fascinating interview? And who knew Rick Rule could interview so well? This could develop into a series. Thank you RVTV.
    • JF
      Jack F. | Real Vision
      30 October 2020 @ 17:09
      "This could develop into a series" - Your wish is our command, John...
  • JT
    Jayne T.
    30 October 2020 @ 16:42
    Love this man (and the Sy Sims’ reference)!
  • AM
    Alonso M.
    30 October 2020 @ 16:41
    Terrific conversation. Some colour on Canada hopefully without getting too political...not that anyone cares about Canadian politics. Gold mining in Canada will always get the thumbs up simply because most of Canada's gold is produced in Quebec, Ontario, and Nunavut which are all in the east. On the other side of this is the oil sands mining and natural gas extraction industries which will always end up getting the shaft because over 90% of Canada's crude oil is produced in Alberta and Saskatchewan and 100% of Canada's natural gas is produced in Alberta and B.C. which are in the west. The federal politicians reside in Ontario.
  • DT
    Daniel T.
    30 October 2020 @ 14:26
    People at RV are also life enhancers, such a great content at affordable prices, incredible! Thanks guys!
  • AO
    Audie O.
    30 October 2020 @ 13:44
    Great interview and very inspiring!!
  • Am
    Alex m.
    30 October 2020 @ 13:00
    What a nice dude!
  • RY
    Roy Y.
    30 October 2020 @ 12:25
    Superb - love Rick Rule
  • CD
    Christopher D.
    30 October 2020 @ 11:22
    Awesome man, awesome men in fact. Rare to mix humanities with business acumen. Re nationalisation risk... I seem to recall that Ross Beatty didnt really subscribe to the 'swap line'/friendly jurisdiction thesis as a way to approach risk. I really wonder why.......seems so clear particularly looking at Turkey today
  • KO
    Khaled O.
    30 October 2020 @ 10:09
    From an economic perspective he killed it in those countries. From humanistic and ethic perspective he took advantage of those countries poor gubernamental and fiscal control, on top of the uncontrolled corruption, to make profit and then allocate to US. Not sure ir its a role model.
  • SS
    Sunny S.
    30 October 2020 @ 09:58
    Enjoyed this in many ways.
  • DW
    Daniel W.
    30 October 2020 @ 09:48
    Very different type of interview and very unique perspectives - great interview!
  • DO
    DIOGO O.
    30 October 2020 @ 09:47
    superb!! Rick Rule is as MASTERMIND!! CHEERS!
  • JS
    John S.
    30 October 2020 @ 09:35
  • SC
    Sejong C.
    30 October 2020 @ 07:04
    Thank you!