The Electrodollar: Venture Capitalism, Technology, and Silicon Valley

Published on
June 1st, 2020
69 minutes

The Electrodollar: Venture Capitalism, Technology, and Silicon Valley

The Interview ·
Featuring Bill Tai

Published on: June 1st, 2020 • Duration: 69 minutes

Venture capitalist, Bill Tai, has been at the intersection of venture capitalism and innovation since the early days of Silicon Valley before the orchards were replaced with technology company corporate headquarters. He joins Real Vision's Raoul Pal to provide his uniquely qualified perspective, having experience on both the technology development and financing sides of Silicon Valley. Tai and Pal discuss data science, Tai's explanation of the "waves of innovation," and where Tai sees the next wave of innovation currently developing. Tai also talks about his early investment in Bitcoin, his view of digital assets separate from Bitcoin including CryptoKitties, digital currencies like Libra, and what he calls "the Electrodollar." Filmed on May 27, 2020.



  • ER
    Ernesto R.
    5 October 2020 @ 12:30
    Missed this until now, in my top 5 conversations on RV! Bring him back every 6mo!
  • AC
    Andrew C.
    17 August 2020 @ 10:37
    Brilliant interview. Great mind.
  • MG
    Michael G.
    5 August 2020 @ 21:37
  • MG
    Manish G.
    11 July 2020 @ 21:48
    Just came across a brilliant project and this is real innovation in terms of money and Electrodollar. Every other crypto till date, including Bitcoin seems like adaption of a traditional currency / money / asset into the digital world, with focus on almost the same properties of hard money and scarcity. Now we have Ampleforth $AMPL, that's real smart commodity / money driven by algorithmic based monetary policy. Do check it out. Seems like Bitcoin 2.0 to me. Do check it with an open mind.
  • EM
    Elizabeth M.
    2 June 2020 @ 01:22
    What is the best way to purchase bitcoin?
    • ZT
      Zach T.
      2 June 2020 @ 01:35
      Cash app is the easiest, Coinbase/Coinbase Pro are probably the best overall platforms as far as ease of use and exposure goes.
    • KP
      Krishna P.
      2 June 2020 @ 03:06
    • kb
      kriss b.
      2 June 2020 @ 03:48
      In Canada: shakepay or newton in America: kraken, coinbasem or gemini Europe: Bitpanda and Bitstamp be sure to purchase a hardware wallet, like a Colcard, Trezor or Ledger Nano when you get scared about how much digital currency you hold on your phone.
    • kb
      kriss b.
      2 June 2020 @ 03:50
      also, robinhood doesn't let you take possession of your Bitcoin, so its more like you are buying a Bitcoin IOU that you can cash in for USD but not actual Bitcoin.
    • AC
      Artur C.
      2 June 2020 @ 07:48
      You can have a look at They offer the most complete eco-system around crypto, including buying and selling crypto, a Visa Debit Card with interesting perks, earning interest on your crypto, borrow fiat with your crypto as collateral and trading crypto on their own exchange. They recently added a non-custodial wallet app, meaning that you are the only one who has access to the private keys. Most importantly they have strong security standards and keep all the user cryptos in cold storage.
    • HK
      Howard K.
      3 June 2020 @ 23:22
      Do NOT use Coinbase. I signed up with Coinbase 2 months ago, and their site has gone down each time there was a +10% rally or selloff in Bitcoin. Not sure if it's due to server loads, or if there is something more nefarious going on, but I was left sitting on the sidelines on at least 4 separate occasions because I could not access my account. Also, I would not recommend Robinhood, or GBTC, because as some other folks have mentioned already, you don't actually own the bitcoins. Just IOU's, and are exposed to counter-party risk (best case), and open to government seizure of your coins (worst case). Best bet would be to buy actual bitcoins on Kraken (lower fees, but less volume and wider spreads), or Gemini (slightly higher fees but more volume). Then get a good hardware wallet like or to store your keys offline.
    • WC
      Wen C.
      4 July 2020 @ 18:59
      KRAKEN! I have been using it for the past few months and very happy with its functions and security. The founder of Kraken was also invited to speak at the crypto gathering and I also learnt to appreciate his philosophy all around "customer service"!!
  • NR
    Nicolas R.
    24 June 2020 @ 10:23
    the answer isn't Libra, it's Chainlink ($link)
  • RF
    Richard F.
    8 June 2020 @ 06:16
    Terrific interview RV team, easily one of the best contributors you've had on - true systems thinker. One thing that I disagree with is the "death" of "old industrials"; they still produce non-consumer equipment that the whole world runs on. Essential equipment that is "hard" in a way that software and data, for all its technical complexity, will never be. Jet engines, petrochemical products, nuclear fuel...all that non-sexy stuff is really hard, really essential and not readily replaced or substituted. I think industrials are being revalued by the market after being run in to the ground for a few decades but I see them coming back into investor "vogue" in the future but in very different forms. What they do is often very hard in ways that people who don't work in the sector can't begin to understand. Hard things are inherently valuable. Or I could be wrong.
    • WC
      Wen C.
      8 June 2020 @ 09:18
      Absolutely agree that non consumer equipments will forver be needed despite their lack of visibility. Financial profitability targets + competition from emerging markets new players (China, India) tend to push companies to divest from capex-intensive hardware industries (for ex., IBM selling hardware business to Lenovo; or many western car brands sold to Indian/Chinese). But economy cannot live from electrons only, just like we can not live from thin air only. Only question is the timing for this industry restructuring, whether the new industrials will be the sample players as the old ones (it will depend how well and fast they will execute their transformation).
    • LP
      Luke P.
      19 June 2020 @ 20:48
      I agree with the same sentiment. Engineering whether, electrical, mechanical, civil will always exist in some derivative. Even with the trend towards digitalisation, or its computational, it will always persist. However, the drive to bring efficiencies through advanced manufacturing will be capital intensive.
  • RO
    Richard O.
    13 June 2020 @ 08:02
    Massive intellect !!! brilliant mind !! Please invite him more often !! RV should bring more of such individuals , visionaries able to forecast the role of specific innovations in various industries 10/30 years from now ! ALL TIME , TOP 3 !! E-P-I-C !!
  • JT
    Joseph T.
    10 June 2020 @ 20:24
    Candy for my mind, thanks
  • AP
    Ash P.
    10 June 2020 @ 04:08
    Loved this. Listening to Bill, I reminded that I first really got bitcoin after reading David Graeber's 'Debt: The First 5,000 Years' - a book about the ancient history of money by an anthropologist that doesn't once mention bitcoin; BTC is the ancient past of money. Great interview.
    • AP
      Ash P.
      10 June 2020 @ 04:21
      I just got to
  • AP
    Ash P.
    10 June 2020 @ 04:08
    Loved this. Listening to Bill, I reminded that I first really got bitcoin after reading David Graeber's 'Debt: The First 5,000 Years' - a book about the ancient history of money by an anthropologist that doesn't once mention bitcoin; BTC is the ancient past of money. Great interview.
  • AP
    Ash P.
    10 June 2020 @ 04:08
    Loved this. Listening to Bill, I reminded that I first really got bitcoin after reading David Graeber's 'Debt: The First 5,000 Years' - a book about the ancient history of money by an anthropologist that doesn't once mention bitcoin; BTC is the ancient past of money. Great interview.
  • NF
    Nicola F.
    9 June 2020 @ 13:56
    great interview, thanks guys!
  • CD
    Christine D.
    4 June 2020 @ 06:58
    Could you guys finally fix that we can listen to the videos while doing other stuff on our phone? Whenever I leave the app the video stops.
    • BB
      Bernardo B.
      9 June 2020 @ 10:41
      Used to have the same issue but figured out that, on iphone at least, it has been solved. It does require one step. After leaving the RV app, swipe up, and the RV audio will have replaces whatever your default music is. You just need to click play and it will stay playing in the background. (also useful if you want to lock your phone, to go for a run for example)
  • KT
    K T.
    6 June 2020 @ 10:14
    Why does nobody ever talk about the fact that most Bitcoin mining/hashrate takes place in China? and in Xinjiang province no less! I guess I am a knucklehead but from 30,000 ft that doesn't look good.
    • KT
      K T.
      6 June 2020 @ 10:28
      Kind of like outsourcing the Fed to the USSR during the cold war. Nah all be fine, let's do it.👍
    • OA
      Oscar A.
      6 June 2020 @ 15:48
      The China centralization fud is so old and so well refuted by now that only the lazy use it as an excuse against btc.
    • CH
      Crag H.
      6 June 2020 @ 17:42
      Read this:
    • KT
      K T.
      9 June 2020 @ 05:53
      Oscar A. Guess I hit a nerve ,my bad. Try some breathing exercises and then read some history, good luck out there.
  • SF
    Scott F.
    9 June 2020 @ 00:35
    Bill Tai is a Rock Star!! Great interview, thanks Raul!
  • sg
    scott g.
    8 June 2020 @ 17:59
    just great stuff...its added a completely different angle on how is look at companies
  • mr
    matteo r.
    6 June 2020 @ 06:16
    Which pill did I just get? Green...?
    • PA
      Paulo A.
      8 June 2020 @ 16:58
  • PR
    Paulo R.
    8 June 2020 @ 15:06
    Fantastic Interview! One of the best interviews to date.
  • NH
    Naser H.
    3 June 2020 @ 15:55
    When I was working on my TurboTax, one of the questions that was asked was if I had done any cryptocurrency trades. This made me think that if the government cannot stop Bitcoin peer to peer, then they can tax the hell out of it to make people not want to hold it. So if it goes to 100K-500K, they would want to tax it by 50-80% for example. But I can see how the blockchain technology can be useful for security and a infrastructure for payments / tokens etc. Thoughts on tax to control Bitcoin?
    • DR
      Denislav R.
      4 June 2020 @ 14:44
      Come to Switzerland, 0% tax on crypto gains or move somewhere else.
    • CH
      Crag H.
      6 June 2020 @ 17:47
      Bill was spot on in the interview. The space have moved so fast and so far that it's now a political risk to ban it. Every free, open society in the world have kept the internet open to their citizens because they know it would be impossible consider themselves free, open societies if they put up national firewalls like China have done. The same thing is happening with Bitcoin. Sovereign threats are overblown in my opinion.
    • MS
      Michael S.
      8 June 2020 @ 13:33
      They can't tax hodlers, which for the most part, is what you should be doing. Bitcoin's primary use case is as a store of value. Stack Sat's, and forget about it.
  • MC
    Michael C.
    8 June 2020 @ 08:47
    Fantastic interview. Bill explains Bitcoin very clearly and many current developments. One of the most interesting RV interviews to date.
  • CT
    Cherry T.
    2 June 2020 @ 01:42
    According to oil expert Art Berman's interpretation, oil's value is due to it's ability to store energy in dense amounts, energy of which is turned into productivity which creates value. Using this framework then, as we exit an industrial age into a digital age, where energy is more needed in the form of electricity specifically, oil's value decreases as it's capacity to turn energy into electricity is not as efficient as it was in previous industrial uses, and as well comes with incredible environmental downside. Which begs the question, what's the next big commodity that'll most efficiently produce electricity and hence maximise productivity and value in the modern world? In my limited knowledge, it looks as though it is Uranium, which is the most efficient of our electricity producers, and amongst the cleanest as well. Interestingly enough, Uranium is primed for an eventual bull market as well from it's cyclicallity and recent decade long bear market. Electricity demand will not go down in the coming century, as our productivity has increasingly moved into the digital world. 14% of world electricity is nuclear. 75% of France's electric supply comes from nuclear. 20% of the USA's comes from nuclear. I'm speculating here but Uranium and nuclear appears to sit at the modern day intersection of environmentalism, electrification, digitisation, rising cold war sentiments, and a secular bull market.
    • mB
      marc B.
      2 June 2020 @ 03:57
      I like your thinking. Is there a particular security you like holding for this exposure? Can we get a uranium specialist on rv plus?
    • dw
      douglas w.
      2 June 2020 @ 06:54
      Usually 2-3 uranium specialists on RV discussing possible trades per year just search for them.
    • CB
      C B.
      2 June 2020 @ 16:32
      Uranium fits within the existing electricity generation paradigm, but if you take a look at new generation technology like flouride salt reactors (safer, simpler and cheaper than nuclear), there is a huge opportunity for this to go a new direction. I'd also throw battery storage out there as a technology that could change the paradigm and make solar and wind power more widely available and a traditional energy "grid" less necessary.
    • SV
      Santiago V. | Contributor
      3 June 2020 @ 17:08
      As a Nuclear Engineer of 20 years I can testify to the fact that Uranium has the highest power density of any fuel source on earth. The problem is that traditional Fission reactor technology has inherent safety problems that require a significant amount of capital for safety redundancy. Also, cradle to grave externalities are fully priced because of regulation whereas competitors like Nat. Gas, Solar, etc. are not or are heavily subsidized. I do think there are solutions on the horizon to create inherently safe nuclear power but there are significant engineering and capital walls to overcome to make these viable at scale.
    • FS
      Florian S.
      8 June 2020 @ 07:33
      i really like this discussion and love the petro- vs electrodollar discussion. its brilliant! in my line of work - strategy in the chemical sector with focus on sustainability - i have seen amazing technical solutions & innovations to massive global environmental and social challenges (plastic waste, carbon emissions, risks to food supply chains, etc). all of these challenges CAN be solved - but it requires abundant, climate-neutral/clean, consistent and dirt cheap electricity...we are leaving the fossil-based era (petrodollar) and have entered the resource-efficiency era (electrodollar). personally - next to Bitcoin :) - i believe that the renewable energy sector will be one of the best long-term investments….what i find difficult: finding the right way to invest in it! if anyone has advice / ideas on this, please let me know. i think this would be a great RV topic to discuss in my opinion...let us hear from some experts in this space
  • DH
    David H.
    8 June 2020 @ 04:53
    Absolutely AWSOME. Though id suggest the ultimate asset is the intelectual dollar. And this guy trades among the highest. I loved his explanations as to the inevitability of massive change; however just think of how hard the entrenched interests of today will fight.
  • Im
    IGOR m.
    7 June 2020 @ 21:51
    Absolutely amazing chat. Definitely bring Bill back!
  • AT
    ALAN T.
    7 June 2020 @ 16:58
  • OA
    Oscar A.
    7 June 2020 @ 14:09
    This talk was so good and such a good explanation of why Bitcoin (BTC) is a game changer that it should be available for free. C'mon Raoul, get it out of the paywall so everyone can hear this is the age of BTC.
  • cd
    chris d.
    7 June 2020 @ 09:52
    Brilliant and with so much to explore further. Thank you for this probably the best ever from the bidinning
  • EA
    Egil A.
    7 June 2020 @ 08:21
    Fantastic interview... please... more!!!
  • GM
    Gary M.
    7 June 2020 @ 06:51
    Guys, what an interview!!! Blew my mind.
  • RR
    Raj R.
    7 June 2020 @ 04:49
    All the supply chain stuff he is talking about including tracking every unit and making sure products are sourced from vendors who follow sustainable practices are being worked on at Amazon. Look up Amazon Transparency!
  • JQ
    Joseph Q.
    7 June 2020 @ 03:48
    Raoul great interview! Bill is awesome.! I recommend a New audible book Kings of Crypto, about founding of coinbase and its future. It will definitely help you learn more about Crypto!
  • VS
    Vincent S.
    7 June 2020 @ 00:07
    Best interview ever
  • AH
    Andrew H.
    6 June 2020 @ 23:42
    Absolutely brilliant discussion. Thank you Bill, Raoul and RV. I'm imbued with a new sense of hope and excitement all of a sudden.
  • AB
    Adeel B.
    6 June 2020 @ 23:37
    Just started watching. This guy is legit already! 😁
  • WW
    Woody W.
    2 June 2020 @ 12:09
    Could RealVision put Bill Tai's Twitter account up in the describtion? I want to follow him
    • ac
      anthony c.
      6 June 2020 @ 19:56
  • HD
    Hannelore D.
    6 June 2020 @ 19:30
    Wow, listened to this whilst running. It gave me so much information and energy I was running a node.
  • CK
    Chris K.
    5 June 2020 @ 23:51
    Wow, totally new concepts ive not heard of anywhere else. Brilliant discussion, thanks to Bill and the RV team!
    • AM
      A M.
      6 June 2020 @ 18:33
      Read The Future is Faster Than You Think by Diamandis & Kotler. You wont regret it!
  • Hv
    Hannah v.
    6 June 2020 @ 18:24
    The e-dollar.
  • Hv
    Hannah v.
    6 June 2020 @ 18:21
    Just a quick suggestion: could the videos stick to a split-screen format and not jump back and forth between the speakers. I’m more interested in seeing what the listener thinks hearing the idea than the speaker delivering it. Like when Bill asks Raoul about what he’d rather.. oil or electricity? And we don’t get to watch Raoul’s lightbulb moment. Please stop single screening key moments in the interview and let’s us see both sides of the conversation. It’s like seeing only one friend in a 3-way conversation. So unless Raoul is picking his nose or has a bored affect please show both sides the entire conversation. Raoul, you as a visual person should totally get this. Thanks:)
  • CH
    Crag H.
    6 June 2020 @ 17:58
    Before everyone wets their pants about tokenizing everything: Remember that every blockchain need to be secure (ie it needs to be difficult to manipulate it's state) and that the only known way of achieving this (today) is through mining. This is why Bitcoin consumes so much energy. And this in turn is why it makes more sense to have very few, very secure blockchains upon which other things can be built. So a separate blockchain for tokenized sports stars could be a bad idea if nefarious actors are able to hack it. Terrific interview though!
  • DO
    Daniel O.
    6 June 2020 @ 17:21
  • OA
    Oscar A.
    6 June 2020 @ 15:47
    One of the best videos I've seen here. Bitcoin (BTC) is truly a super disruptive game changer for the next decade. Just be careful not to confuse it with the scams going around (blockchain pipe dreams like Ethereum or other similar nonsense). This is 1990. BTC is TCP/IP. Bet on the base layer, because none of the current alternatives will win if the btc base layer fails.
    • TP
      Timothy P.
      6 June 2020 @ 16:39
      Correct. Ethereum is in the middle of pivoting to Proof-of-Stake, which will dramatically increase their network security risk. Just look at what happened with Steem and their Delegated-Proof-of-Stake system. A lot of similarities. Also, Vitalik doesn't understand moral hazard, like when he rolled back the entire chain because of the DAO incident. (Which used the code as they had defined it, by the way, it wasn't a "hack" in the classical sense.)
  • TP
    Timothy P.
    6 June 2020 @ 16:36
    Bill Tai knows his stuff, and we've both hung out with Philip Rosedale. Cool. Shame he doesn't get how ETH is pivoting to disaster, but generally he got most of it right. Interesting that he got involved in Bitcoin just a bit before I did. Nice. Also funny how he says Linden Dollars were a closed system. They weren't, if you knew where to go. But that exchange closed down, so that's no longer possible. Was fun while it lasted.
  • JG
    Judith G.
    6 June 2020 @ 15:22
    Bill is such a nice guy that he let Raul take some of the credit for the "electrodollar." I am quite sure he had it quite developed in his mind before this interview. But maybe he hadn't coined the term yet? No matter....this was one of the best interviews ever on RV. Thank you!
  • MB
    Marc B.
    6 June 2020 @ 13:28
    Everything that was mentioned here about communities, digital economies with their own currencies, is the future. It's the reason I'm invested in HIVE.
  • NF
    N. F.
    6 June 2020 @ 12:29
    This is one of the best things I’ve seen on Real Vision. It reminded me a bit of Niall Ferguson’s The Ascent of Money documentary series that came out just after the GFC. I bet Bill Tai could make a great doc for Real Vision about the ascent of digital money because he’s such a gifted communicator with deep personal experience and knowledge.
  • DW
    Dean W.
    6 June 2020 @ 00:13
    Obvious a bright person and remarkably successful. Some interesting general anecdotes but I didn’t get any particularly useful investment perspectives beyond “info tech “.
    • SF
      Stephen F.
      6 June 2020 @ 03:10
      Figure out the future and start buying it.
  • DD
    Daniel D.
    5 June 2020 @ 17:31
    Really incredible discussion. Thank you Raoul and RV. Bill, thank you for explaining things in a way that a non-technologist can understand. That is very much appreciated in this wide ranging conversation. I will watch again to extract additional nuggets of wisdom/information.
  • GL
    G L.
    5 June 2020 @ 13:05
    Excellent, high quality interview - thank you Bill and Raoul.
  • MM
    Mark M.
    5 June 2020 @ 06:32
    Enlightening vision of the future from a brilliant mind. Would look forward to hearing from Bill again.
  • PG
    Philippe G.
    2 June 2020 @ 13:51
    Excellent!! A conversation between Mr. Tai and Josh Wolfe of Lux Capital or Dan Morehead of Pantera Capital would be amazing!!
    • MA
      Melanie A.
      5 June 2020 @ 00:57
  • NS
    Nick S.
    4 June 2020 @ 22:32
    Blown away, especially the second half. Hope to see these two exchange thoughts more often!
  • BE
    Bart E.
    4 June 2020 @ 21:37
    This was one of the best interviews on RV by far. It looks at crypto from a whole other perspective but still confirms the bullish thesis. Bill should be back on for sure
  • RG
    Renaud G.
    3 June 2020 @ 00:35
    There is a financial community using their token right now. Its call LeoFinance with a token called LEO. They built their own economy...they are about 1000 now.
    • BE
      Bart E.
      4 June 2020 @ 21:36
      I own some Leo, I like that concept
  • RM
    Robert M.
    4 June 2020 @ 19:07
    I finally GET bitcoin. Thank you Bill and Raoul. WOW, what a very short hour!
  • AS
    Aleix S.
    4 June 2020 @ 16:42
    Amazing! One of the most inspiring
  • DR
    Denislav R.
    4 June 2020 @ 14:44
  • TS
    Tom S.
    4 June 2020 @ 12:09
  • SC
    Sebastian C.
    4 June 2020 @ 07:53
    When is the Crypto platform coming :D
  • iL
    ian L.
    4 June 2020 @ 07:44
    I know Bill from kitesurfing in WA but I have never had the opportunity to hear his story and views in this way before...great interview and much food for thought.
  • RS
    Roger S.
    2 June 2020 @ 00:34
    So sad when you are introduced to such intelligent forward imaginative thinkers like this and lots of others we have met here. Then you think about what we are stuck with for politicians and leaders.
    • mB
      marc B.
      2 June 2020 @ 03:55
      Like bill said we are creating our own community.
    • CC
      Christopher C.
      2 June 2020 @ 07:45
      Politics is a dirty business. Sadly we're left with the few who thrive in those environments.
    • LF
      Liam F.
      4 June 2020 @ 05:11
      Think electropoliticians, or better yet electrolegislators. AIs backed by data science to run the commons.
  • TS
    Todd S.
    4 June 2020 @ 00:22
    Loved this
  • TN
    Tim N.
    1 June 2020 @ 11:59
    I still have concerns about the long term viability of Bitcoin as a currency or store of value. Bitcoin wealth seems to be concentrated in a few whales (much more so than fiat) who seem to be able to manipulate the market up and down and skim profits from retail investors - Satoshi himself seems to own over 1 million BTC. With fiat currency the possibility of taxation and redistribution means it is more acceptable in a democracy. Therefore, I am not sure if Bitcoin will gain wide enough adoption to push prices up to $1000000/BTC
    • SJ
      Sean J.
      2 June 2020 @ 22:10
      You mean like hedge funds that scalp trade stocks daily?
    • SV
      Santiago V. | Contributor
      3 June 2020 @ 18:18
      A $21 Trillion market cap for a non-sovereign supra-national currency seems possible to me, however I share some of your concerns. The solution is liquidity and utility. If BTC ends up being solely a SoV, or a hedge against fiat excesses, without having a P2P utility surrounding it for the masses, then we risk systemic concentration. I suppose enough millionaire's / billionaire's buy enough bitcoin to solve the game theory problem of government taxation / inflation but it would have to be en mass and persistent. What precludes retail from taking their digital toys and playing in another sandbox? Certainly not barriers to entry. We don't need a new hegemonic system to replace the dollar, what we need is escape from hegemony altogether. I think the solution resides with the Internet of Value, creating a network of networks that are fungible and liquid so that single market manipulations do not drive the behavior of all ecosystems. It's going to take time but that should be the endgame.
  • PP
    Patrick P.
    2 June 2020 @ 02:45
    I'm not sure Bill understands the terminology "Petro Dollar"
    • SV
      Santiago V. | Contributor
      3 June 2020 @ 17:02
      My understanding is that petrodollars are U.S. dollars paid to an oil exporting country for the sale of the commodity. Put simply, the petrodollar system is an exchange of oil for U.S. dollars between countries that buy oil and those that produce it. That's the impression Bill have me, can you provide some alternative insight?
  • JB
    James B.
    3 June 2020 @ 16:16
    Great interview and insight into the possible future. Giving Bill Tai and others who have been interviewed the freedom and time to chat like they are with a group of friends sitting down for coffee or tea is wonderful and productive. Hope that Bill Tai comes back for another session.
  • BT
    Brian T.
    3 June 2020 @ 12:48
    That was great!
  • TS
    Thomas S.
    1 June 2020 @ 23:21
    Great interview. Lots of food for thought. This guy clearly is on a much higher plain than I am with respect to the digital world. May have to go back and watch it again to pick up a little more. In the interim, anyone have a suggestion for some content (level 101) with respect to tokenization? many thanks.
    • Mv
      Martijn v.
      1 June 2020 @ 23:32
      For a book, this is one I recommend: Cryptoassets: The Innovative Investor's Guide to Bitcoin and Beyond by Audible, Inc. (US) Learn more:
    • SY
      Stephen Y.
      3 June 2020 @ 12:10
      I second Martijn's reccomendation below. Also check out The Bitcoin Standard by Saifedean Ammous
  • ra
    rehan a.
    3 June 2020 @ 11:51
    Should have had bill on during crypto week(s) ...on repeat !
  • CA
    Chad A.
    3 June 2020 @ 11:13
    It is rare TWO hyper-articulate, deep-thinkers get together and pick each other’s brains while we peek into them discussing highly relevant/current event topics. Spectacularly good Raoul and Bill! I am 51 and have started a couple of businesses that built nice value ...but when I grow up... I want to be just like Bill Tai. Wow!
  • HK
    Hyosoong K.
    3 June 2020 @ 10:41
    Amazing interview on how he frames different industries and bitcoin. We need to have him on again!!
  • RK
    Rodney K.
    3 June 2020 @ 05:30
    I like how he says "YOU HUMANS" ( at min 47 ). I thought he is from another planet. Great interview !!
  • DM
    Dominic M.
    3 June 2020 @ 03:16
    Wow, really outstanding conversation. Would love to see Mr. Tai on RV again.
  • GC
    Gary C.
    3 June 2020 @ 03:11
    I am absolutely smarter now than 69 minutes ago. Mind blown.
  • CD
    Cheryl D.
    3 June 2020 @ 01:55
    Fascinating interview!!!
  • AL
    Aaron L.
    3 June 2020 @ 00:49
    Such a great interview!!!!!
  • WT
    2 June 2020 @ 23:49
    Outstanding interview...worth watching again. @Raoul, with your interest in the intersection of the financial world and blockchain technology, you should contact Gilbert Verdian who is CEO and founder of Quant Network. This is a crypto company that is initially focusing on financial markets and Gil has a very strong background in both finance and security (check his LinkedIn bio). I believe you would find a lot of common interests based on the latter part of this interview, and he might make an interesting guest for RV.
  • HG
    Henry G.
    2 June 2020 @ 05:47
    What a great interview, we are fortunate to be witnessing first hand this massive realignment of the globe and nation states as hypothesized in Kondratievs winter, the fragmentation of globalisation into clustered economic blocks would also be further enabled by cryptos However there is going to be a epic battles between nation states with their own digital currency ambitions and the new world of non-geographic communities around the primary or reserve currency. I can easily see an attempted ban on Bitcoin as a store of value much like the 1933 FDR ban on hoarding gold, to try and eliminate competition to the nation states preferred currency. For me a key elements(and opportunity) are the next layer of digital use cases built on the top of blockchains like Ethereum, the current first generation DEFI paradigm by example but going hand in hand with that also the privacy tokens such as Monero , Zcash, Zcoin which will be required for communities to avoid the prying eyes of nation states
    • dp
      daniel p.
      2 June 2020 @ 23:19
      bitcoin getting banned would be the buy signal of the century
  • JR
    Jason R.
    2 June 2020 @ 22:26
    Wow -- true genius at work. What a great talk. Fascinating listening to Bill -- he has the power of vision, and really describes an interesting framework for crypto in the future.
  • TU
    Thomas U.
    2 June 2020 @ 21:00
    Simply Fantastic:-)
  • TS
    Tor S.
    2 June 2020 @ 20:01
    We need the guys and girls with background from both tech and finance/economics to paint the pictures that can help general public understand crypto / blockchain etc. I absolutely loved it. Brilliant.
  • DM
    Dominic M.
    2 June 2020 @ 19:50
    Fascinating discussion. TY
  • sk
    saner k.
    2 June 2020 @ 19:27
    Really good interview but Bill never said "I dont know that" .. It loks like he knows everything from semiconductor design to currencies and central banks etc :)
  • GA
    George A.
    2 June 2020 @ 19:26
    I wish that some day RV would become an actual TV channel, not just a show!!!
  • SS
    Stephen S.
    2 June 2020 @ 18:47
    Interesting, Technical stuff a bit difficult for me to follow, but big picture very good.
  • sd
    sabyasachi d.
    2 June 2020 @ 18:32
    One of the best discussions ever. Awesome
  • CI
    Chayot I.
    2 June 2020 @ 18:11
    Petrodollar vs. Electrodollar 🤯 Great great interview
  • PC
    Petros C.
    2 June 2020 @ 15:19
    It would be interesting to have a live discussion between Mr.Tai, Raoul Pal and Nouriel Roubini. The latter has said on numerous interviews that: [1] Bitcoin is not a currency, let alone a even a storage of value due to wild value fluctuations. [2] No killer app exists in blockchain after 10 years: Cryptokitties LOL [3] Cryptocurrencies are a new type of bubble and most are going to zero, except bitcoin which has collectible value. [4] The future is Fintech e.g. digital payment systems like AliPay, WeChat etc
    • SY
      Stephen Y.
      2 June 2020 @ 17:42
      1) You can pay your taxes in Switzerland with Bitcoin. I'll happily sell you my car for BTC. But if Mr Roubini says it's not a currency he must be right. 2) Open, borderless, non nationstate money that is immune to censorship and QE is the killer app for blockchain. 3) That's probably true, similar to equities. 4) They have their place, but they will all support BTC within the next 5 years.
  • OC
    Otto C.
    2 June 2020 @ 17:13
    Excellent discussion!!!
  • IH
    Ian H.
    2 June 2020 @ 17:11
    Top 5 interview of all time on RV.
  • Nv
    Nick v.
    2 June 2020 @ 15:15
    Great interview. I would like to hear Bill’s opinion on the risks of quantum computing for Bitcoin. It’s the genesis blockchain with old “granular” tech and it is decentralized... so no easy upgrades for old (public) addresses
  • WG
    Wade G.
    2 June 2020 @ 14:25
    Well that blew me away...
  • PJ
    Peter J.
    2 June 2020 @ 13:12
    Almost been here since the start of RVTV and this is one of the best interviews to date IMO. Will watch again and possibly again.
  • TS
    Thalia S.
    2 June 2020 @ 13:01
    Wonderful. Would love to see Kiril S interview Ray Dalio, and also Paul Tudor Jones!
  • SG
    Satvinder G.
    2 June 2020 @ 12:51
    Really enjoyed that. Hope one of you one day get coined for the term Electrodollar!!
  • WW
    Woody W.
    2 June 2020 @ 12:11
    P.S RealVision should interview more smart tech people like Bill Tai
  • SM
    Sam M.
    2 June 2020 @ 09:20
    I don't understand how you can have Richard Werner on a few days ago and half the crowd is saying "best interview" ever and then Bill today and saying "best interview ever". Tokenisation = Securitisation = Financialisation = Debt (ie borrowing from the future). I don't see how finding more ways to securitise future income streams (whether productive investments or not) is something to be celebrated because it uses a new technology. If people liked both interviews on this point ... why are they both the best interviews ever when they conflict with each other on a key point? (I get if people liked it for different reasons but this point is jarring)
    • SY
      Stephen Y.
      2 June 2020 @ 11:54
      Fair point comparing the two interviews. I would say this though : Tokenisation = Securitisation in the same way that interactive web interfaces = Facebook. One of the things you can do with tokenisation is securitisation, in the same way that one of the things you can do with interactive web interfaces is build Facebook. The real power of "programmable money" is that things like money markets, liquidity provision, collateralised loans, leverage, securitisation etc all become "money legos". The more lego's you have the more you can do. A crazy example : Using the Aave protocol you can get infinite, free, zero collateral liquidity as long as you pay it back in the same "block" (for simplification think of it as a single transaction). This means anybody can arbitrage between distributed exchanges, with infinite leverage and zero risk since if your transaction didn't return enough to pay back your leverage position it "never happened". That's just one example, there are many more and it is still early days.
  • RC
    Ramya C.
    2 June 2020 @ 05:53
    Is there a bitcoin ETF?
    • WA
      Wissam A.
      2 June 2020 @ 09:54
    • MG
      Manish G.
      2 June 2020 @ 11:45
      Not an ETF but much better than GBTC and much lower fees and lesser premium... Pantera Bitcoin Fund.
  • OG
    Oscar G.
    2 June 2020 @ 11:39
    Great interview. Really enjoyed this perspective. When it feels like Raoul is just as curious and fascinated as we are you know it’s a great interview.
  • MG
    Manish G.
    2 June 2020 @ 11:37
    Brilliant interview and such a different thought process and perspective. Need more such interviews, its such a fresh view.
  • MC
    Mike C.
    2 June 2020 @ 11:04
    Bitcoin is fucking remarkable!
  • tc
    thomas c.
    2 June 2020 @ 10:26
    Wow! Where did you find this guy?. One of the best interviews in my 4 yrs at RV. Is he really as old as he claims? Many guest are easily heard on many other sites (usually free) but Bill is a real find.
  • JD
    John D.
    2 June 2020 @ 10:01
    Great Guest...Thanks Guys
  • MS
    Matthew S.
    2 June 2020 @ 09:42
    My favourite interview on RV by far, just brilliant. Thanks Raoul!
  • EF
    Ed F.
    1 June 2020 @ 17:41
    A true polymath who is able to explain complexity to the layman. Unlike so many other guests, he is not front running his book
    • TN
      Tim N.
      2 June 2020 @ 08:53
  • wk
    wai k.
    2 June 2020 @ 08:13
    Great interview !!! Thanks real vision and Bill. Is Bill Tai have written some book(s) ?
  • PK
    Patrick K.
    2 June 2020 @ 07:17
    I really enjoyed this interview, Bill Tai was so much better than the previous interview with Michael Novogratz regarding the token economy. Raoul it's great to hear you mention "The Internet of Value" (IOV), the change from what was "The Internet of Things" (IOT) to what the future will be - IOV. If you have Bill Tai again please ask the following "Interoperability" and "Proof Of Stake" both of these are worth mentioning and important to creating the layer of IOV.
  • EP
    Emma P.
    2 June 2020 @ 07:08
    Great interview. I would love to see an interview/ video that focuses directly on the topic of nation-state digital currencies. Many of the questions that are touched on in various videos but I think it warrants its own session. Using the USD as the example suggested topics include: What would change if we replaced a fiat "paper" currency with digital currency? How would any of the current problems be solved with digital currency? Would we have the same monetary structure, with a Treasury, Central Bank, and Commercial Banks? Would we still get currency debasement with QE1,2,3,4,5...? What would happen to the debt owed by the Government, domestic companies & households, overseas-based companies, and households? How does it deal with the problem of unsustainable indebtedness? Would the digital USD still represent the world reserve currency? If not how would that unwind? Also, to balance perspectives, it may be helpful to hear the big picture from a geopolitical strategist such as Peter Zeihan. I have watched some of his interviews on YouTube and he presents a contrary view on China etc.
  • RG
    Rob G.
    2 June 2020 @ 06:15
    seriously cool interview...Bill blew my mind. Raoul - you looked pretty chuffed with yourself coining the phrase 'Electrodollar" ;)
  • RG
    Rob G.
    2 June 2020 @ 06:15
    seriously cool interview...Bill blew my mind. Raoul - you looked pretty chuffed with yourself coining the phrase 'Electrodollar" ;)
  • TN
    Tim N.
    2 June 2020 @ 06:13
    Best interview of the year
  • MD
    Matt D.
    2 June 2020 @ 05:53
    Brilliant. A privilege to listen to this conversation. So many amazing insights and (essential) information from two greats. Thanks Raoul and Bill.
  • JN
    Jeffrey N.
    2 June 2020 @ 04:59
    Aside his amazing insight and experience, he has a fantastic ability to explain things very clearly - a very skilled communicator.
  • DP
    D P.
    2 June 2020 @ 04:58
    That bit about oil vs electrons blew my mind. It really feels like we re at the end of an epoch, and that the world will look very differently 10 years from now.
  • mr
    martyn r.
    1 June 2020 @ 09:38
    a great value of these tokens is for decentralized value add (think non-profit power company as an example) where you can see where all the money comes in from, where it goes within the entity, where it flows out, all verified with read only access
    • mB
      marc B.
      2 June 2020 @ 04:33
      Political campaigns would be interesting.
  • BT
    Brian T.
    1 June 2020 @ 09:57
    This was awesome to listen to! Very conceptual, with some history, as well as an interesting 'vision'. !! My question would be: If we get the feared 'doom loop' of deflation to play out as Raoul has clearly explained, do we see technology STAGNATION as people fear change more than ever (F** the government=bartering and exchanging goods/services) OR do we see technology EXPLOSION as it gets mandated by a central government who can now monitor every single cent transferred (ie digital currencies and AI) ? Thanks Again for helping me to 'see' and maybe even 'understand' how greater minds think!! God Bless and stay safe !! BT
    • mB
      marc B.
      2 June 2020 @ 04:32
      Great question. I feel the same. We need more blockchain specialist. How can we view their financial because they are in essence private companies. We need to make sure to invest in solid companies. More understanding please!
  • SS
    S S.
    1 June 2020 @ 14:38
    Want to boost your economy? Welcome the young and talented people from Hong Kong and Taiwan with open arms. They are some of the most entrepreneurial, hard working and gifted people on the planet.
    • mB
      marc B.
      2 June 2020 @ 04:22
      Yes, I hope this happens. America is the land of immigrants. Just like what bill said everyone went to Silicon Valley. Innovators now are global.
  • sc
    sung c.
    2 June 2020 @ 04:16
    Wow! Thanks so much for this interview. I learned so much. I'll have to watch is a second time. Amazing stuff.
  • ML
    Mehdi L.
    1 June 2020 @ 19:57
    Ethereum is built to disrupt the banks. Bitcoin to disrupt the central bank.
    • RP
      Raoul P. | Founder
      1 June 2020 @ 21:39
      Love that.
    • mB
      marc B.
      2 June 2020 @ 04:14
      He really gave me more conviction on my ethereum play. Also realized these are assets you want to hold and not sell for 10 years.
  • FQ
    Fabian Q.
    1 June 2020 @ 20:05
    The search has an end ladies and gentlemen : Satoshi Nakamoto !
    • mB
      marc B.
      2 June 2020 @ 04:13
      I know. 2010 he was mining. Unreal to learn from him!
  • MH
    Muddshir H.
    2 June 2020 @ 04:12
    Great interview
  • DS
    David S.
    1 June 2020 @ 21:19
    Most governments will have their own digital currency. This is digitizing that which exists. Non-government digital currencies are not allowed in China. Western countries will follow China first by digitizing and then trying to outlaw digital currencies. Western governments will use banking regulations, tax laws and making sure all accounts have a legitimate tax number to suppress Bitcoin and the like. This will backfire as Bitcoin will become more and more legitimate. Blockchain itself will be used everywhere. Eventually western central banks will be folded into the executive branch of their governments. The Swift system of payments will die a natural death. 50/50. DLS
    • mB
      marc B.
      2 June 2020 @ 04:11
      They fight the transparency. But once the citizens learn and understand a new area of elected officials will evolve. An adoption of transparency sounds to me like the foundation of blockchain and bitcoin funds the system. I’m tired of the lies, corruption, and market manipulation.
  • GG
    Gary G.
    2 June 2020 @ 02:30
    One of my favorite interviews so far. I promptly followed Bill on Twitter and hope that you guys have him back soon. He's very engaging in the way he describes and expresses his ideas; very thought provoking. I feel smarter now just after listening to this guy for one hour. :)
    • mB
      marc B.
      2 June 2020 @ 03:45
      I wanted a few more hours. That guy is on the cutting edge of all new tech.
  • mB
    marc B.
    2 June 2020 @ 03:42
    Holy smokes, bill is a genius. One of my favorite conversations ever. Extremely insightful and provide an easy way to understand technical language. I used to live in SF and always enjoyed speaking with the old Silicon Valley money guys. The new silicon is a bit more arrogant. Would enjoy more people like bill on the show. But think he is one of a kind. Solidified my confidence in bitcoin and alt coins. This is the future. The capital structure needs to change. It will take time we are so early!
  • AT
    Andrea T.
    1 June 2020 @ 14:52
    I don't understand why RV don't addresses the fundamental issue with bitcoin, that is, that it is not fungible because it's transparent. If it's not fungible, it's not money. If it's transparent, it's an instrument of oppression.
    • AC
      Aaruran C.
      1 June 2020 @ 15:06
      Don't know if i agree with this but it's quite an interesting thought
    • PJ
      Paul J.
      1 June 2020 @ 17:59
      Fungibility is not a fundamental issue with Bitcoin. It could be considered a regulatory issue, however. Bitcoin itself is completely fungible. From the "point-of-view" of the Bitcoin network---i.e., the distributed grid of computers that run Bitcoin software--all transactions are fungible. One would have to take down the internet to prevent valid peer-to-peer bitcoin transactions from happening. The software does not discriminate or treat some bitcoin differently than other bitcoin. As long as someone controls the private keys, the bitcoin is spendable (or sendable). Now, when regulated entities touch bitcoin, for example, exchanges like Coinbase, the issue of fungibility may arise. Coinbase could (does) censor or prevent transactions from certain bitcoin sources. I assume, however, it will not be in the best interest for exchanges to heavily censor transactions as it will not help their business model. More importantly, second layer solutions such as Liquid and Lightning make bitcoin transactions more difficult to trace (more private) and may make it impractical for regulators to try to blacklist bitcoin addresses.
    • DS
      David S.
      2 June 2020 @ 02:50
      Andrea T. - Do you mean that Bitcoin transactions are open for everyone to see especially if the registered owner is legitimate? If that is the question, that would be a benefit for legitimate transactions. If you wish to hide your transaction, you may need to use currency, gold etc. Pretty soon the governments will get rid of currency and everything will be transparent - black markets beware. Better buy gold now before the only place to buy precious metals is the government. Next the only place to sell gold will be the government. There will be no escape. The digital world is a two-edged sword. Nothing will be fungible. We will all be oppressed. Life goes on. DLS
  • RC
    Ryan C.
    2 June 2020 @ 00:45
    Wow. New subscriber here - that was a top 10 watch for me. Really enjoyed that Bill could approach topics like content and tech... and then tie into finance... great watch.
  • TS
    Thomas S.
    2 June 2020 @ 00:36
    This is the type of content the makes Real Vision special. This opened up of larger world of understand for me. Thanks!
  • PT
    Peter T.
    2 June 2020 @ 00:21 Oil and coal will go much higher until we finally come back around to nuclear, the green energy movement will never supply the energy we need to power this digital age that is coming at warp speed !! It might even kill us first, please watch. Bitcoin will be the best fixed reference point for all currencies. It is TRUTH in a world lacking TRUTH I love this conversation but think that BTC gets to 5 Trillion very quick..........
  • pd
    peter d.
    1 June 2020 @ 23:57
    as i type this bitcoin is moving up through the $10,000 - $10,500 key resistance. we have been waiting a while for this move. its significant. we may crash down again but then woosh off we go . . . . . . im expecting huge bitcoin bull market lasting from now till end 2021. but who knows?
  • BG
    Borja G.
    1 June 2020 @ 22:53
    Amazing unterview! It would be great if Real Vision went more in detail into the digital world so that we can learn in the early stage
  • GF
    Gaye F.
    1 June 2020 @ 22:40
    This was a tremendous interview and discussion. The concept of 'electrodollar' -as developed specifically through this conversation, is a breakthrough conceptualization! This moved me to a new place. Thank you!
  • LC
    Leigh C.
    1 June 2020 @ 22:31
    Great content as usual real vision. What a great communicator. Keep sourcing such quality content and individuals Raoul and thank you for letting your guests speak at length without interruption.
  • CD
    Christopher D.
    1 June 2020 @ 22:15
    Baill Tai is absolutely amazing at putting things in historical perspective, and laying out clearly the essential components of what I thought I was familiar with. On history of money, reminiscent of J.K Galbraith's "Money whence it came, where it went" On a currency being a store of value for a community with a shared objective: Finn Burton "Digital Cash. The unknown history of the anarchists, utopians and technologists who created cryptocurrency", Princeton University Press.
  • ar
    andrew r.
    1 June 2020 @ 22:03
    Fascinating guest, terrific interview.
  • DS
    David S.
    1 June 2020 @ 20:59
    Great interview. Mr. Pal does a great job of letting the guest speak because he is always testing his own positions. Mr. Pal does state his position succinctly but does not debate with the guest. He is driven by curiosity and not handcuffed by tribalism. That is why he could interview Mr. Clark and Mr. Tai so successfully back to back – curiosity is the key. Mr. Bennington also grounds his interviews with facts and/or background not yet discussed without interfering with the flow. Thanks for two great interviews in a row. DLS
    • RP
      Raoul P. | Founder
      1 June 2020 @ 21:39
      Thanks DLS! That is exactly how I approach it.
  • MJ
    Marius J.
    1 June 2020 @ 21:08
    Fantastic! What is he invested in, always interesting to get some clear investment guiding, if possible✅
  • SS
    S S.
    1 June 2020 @ 16:31
    Ben Horowitz from Andreesen Horowitz next please. Ben's book The Hard Things about Hard Things is one of the greatest books ever written.
    • RP
      Raoul P. | Founder
      1 June 2020 @ 17:05
      Agreed. It has been my management bible.
    • MH
      Michael H.
      1 June 2020 @ 21:06
      That book is amazing. After reading, it was the first time I bought copies of a book to give to people.
  • MC
    Melvin C.
    1 June 2020 @ 20:32
    Amazing! This is the best interview I've seen on RV - or anywhere. Well done Raoul for creating such a great product and finding amazing thinkers like Bill Tay!
  • CM
    Chris M.
    1 June 2020 @ 19:55
    really enjoyed this interview! Bill speaks so clearly. I had no idea he was old enough to have been working in the 80s! More like this please!
  • pa
    paolo a.
    1 June 2020 @ 19:53
    This was top of the world!!! Thanks
  • DS
    David S.
    1 June 2020 @ 19:46
    My God! What a mind-expanding and inspiring interview! Thank you RP for all this great content. This talk with Bill Tai was powerful. Very motivating and edifying.
  • MS
    Michiel S.
    1 June 2020 @ 19:45
    Thank you for coming up with this interview that is of extraordinary quality! Try to find and motivate Satoshi Nakamoto and persuade him to have a go with Bill on RV live.
  • MM
    Matt M.
    1 June 2020 @ 19:43
    Wow, have Bill back again please
  • ly
    lena y.
    1 June 2020 @ 19:41
  • FS
    Faheem S.
    1 June 2020 @ 19:19
    Bill was amazing, the way his mind is wired is a treasure trove of information....lots to digest and process but i feel my subscription to RV is worth every penny because of interviews like this
  • vd
    vipen d.
    1 June 2020 @ 19:10
    Amazing Interview!
  • JD
    Jeremy D.
    1 June 2020 @ 18:53
    Edison and Ford both wanted an ElectroDollar.
  • je
    james e.
    1 June 2020 @ 18:47
    Just terrific interview. One trait of an 'expert' is clear explanation and the ability to distill complex into simple, such as the three things an investor needs to get right: 1) Market, 2) Management, and 3) Capital. Great discussion, Raoul.
  • GB
    Gordon B.
    1 June 2020 @ 18:28
    Paradigm changing impact on my thought process regarding currencies and physical assets.
  • AP
    A P.
    1 June 2020 @ 18:12
    Fascinating perspective; would like to hear more from Mr Tai in future.
  • RP
    Renato P.
    1 June 2020 @ 17:48
    I just got the feeling that I'll need to watch this interview 10x to capture all the ideas discussed. Tks
  • TC
    Thomas C.
    1 June 2020 @ 17:36
    Lots of hot air and sorry to say Bill has a very poor understand of technology incl crypto. Some good questions by Raoul and only one or two interesting points
  • AH
    Attila H.
    1 June 2020 @ 17:33
  • JA
    Jonathan A.
    1 June 2020 @ 17:29
    Energy dollars or energy currency backed by electricity has been conceptualized by Thomas Edison, Henry Ford and Buckminster Fuller.
  • OC
    Otto C.
    1 June 2020 @ 17:11