The Risks of Ignoring Crypto

Published on
February 18th, 2020
Duration
70 minutes


The Risks of Ignoring Crypto

The Interview ·
Featuring Meltem Demirors

Published on: February 18th, 2020 • Duration: 70 minutes

The oldest millennials have already begun to turn forty – amid a backdrop of dismal yields and a black hole of unfunded pension liabilities, is cryptocurrency the key to understanding their seemingly grim retirement paradox? As part of our continuing coverage of the pension crisis, CoinShare’s Meltem Demirors sits down with Real Vision's Ash Bennington to discuss the role that Bitcoin and other digital assets will play in our collective financial future. In this wide-ranging conversation, Demirors and Bennington explore the broader context of digitization of the global economy, inequality, and the rapidly shifting landscape of political, economic, and social change. Filmed on February 3, 2020, in New York.

Comments

Transcript

  • WB
    William B.
    23 March 2020 @ 04:14
    Try this interview with the sound turned off.
  • JL
    Jason L.
    14 March 2020 @ 17:58
    She just kept rambling. Ash could probably do a better job.
  • WB
    William B.
    28 February 2020 @ 02:57
    I think that Realvision loses credibility when it advocates Bitcoin. Bitcoiners will lose money, and Realvision will lose some credibility and be regarded as somewhat fringe. Realvison has some really brilliant contributors such as Jim Grant. Please don't dilute your credibility with Star Trek fantasy.
    • MO
      Miguel O.
      2 March 2020 @ 04:34
      If Real Vision had started in 1929, this comment would also be appropriate about Jim Grant... Times change and the constant we can all count on is change. Having " Real Vision" is the ability to propose different ideas that may shape the future. Afterall...if we all just wanted to tell the same tale as before "stocks, bonds, real estate" ...the channel would have to be called "consensus vision" With all respect..."new ideas" is part of what has gotten us here :)
    • WB
      William B.
      4 March 2020 @ 02:51
      Miguel I very much respect your reply. I am just concerned that real people will put their real money into Bitcoin believing that Bitcoin is a real asset. In my opinion, which is no better than yours, Bitcoin will be squelched by governments. Will the U.S. give up control of the dollar? That would be the end of the federal budget, the federal reserve, control of the economy. The U.S. Congress wouldn't be able to make a budget. Yes, governments have abused and will continue to abuse their economic powers and will debase their currencies. But they won't cede control to Bitcoin. No government has ever willingly relinquished power. If you are concerned about currency debasement, I would suggest Gold or real estate or something else that you hold and can nail down. I can't predict the future. Maybe Bitcoin will surge in value. Good luck with that.
    • WB
      William B.
      13 March 2020 @ 02:30
      For every "thumbs down" you give me, the price of Bitcoin falls by 10%.
  • AJ
    Andreas J.
    8 March 2020 @ 10:03
    I'd love to see a Realvision interview with Chris Larsen. Big picture guy with a track record, and one of the few in the space who have a working understanding of the existing financial infrastructure. Look to how he likens digital interoperability to the introduction of shipping containers, and its effect on the world economy. Then look to how his present-day liquidity solution is designed. He set up the Ripple token to be non-threatening to fiat currencies, and it's catching on faster than anyone thought. Ripple is driving 10% of the US-Mexico remittance market. Not in some parallel economy, but happening today. Genuine arbiters between old and new are the key. Few understand both worlds. Only those who do can formulate a vision beneficial to the system as a whole.
  • JH
    Jonathan H.
    22 February 2020 @ 15:19
    I would love to hear about from the leaders of other top cryptos such as ETH and XRP. While BTC's dominance in the crypto market is about 60% it still lacks real-world applications adopted by financial institutions. At this point, BTC is more religious than utility after 10 odd years of existence. Talk to the builders in the space who are continually creating value instead of those who got into crypto early.
    • JH
      Jonathan H.
      22 February 2020 @ 15:23
      I recommend someone like David Schwartz CTO of Ripple
    • CH
      Crag H.
      23 February 2020 @ 13:10
      Talk to the builders? Are you serious? That's a very misleading and possibly ignorant thing to say. The top protocol developers are working on Bitcoin and it's related technologies. Ripple is a blatant scam which is being sued for their illegal securities offering. The offering gave them a huge amount of cash which they are using to hire lawyers to try and prove that XRP is a commodity rather than a security. Each month the company is dumping loads of XRP on their community members to fund this charade. Avoid!
    • JH
      Jonathan H.
      24 February 2020 @ 02:10
      I am still waiting for the BTC and lightning network to be able to process millions of dollars worth of transactions per week at a 100% success rate. Please look at what Moneygram and Bitso are doing with the Mexican remittance market. Please find out how much Ripple is allegedly" dumping" into the market vs how much BTC miners are selling and their impact. Please tell me how many percent of BTC mining happens in China. At a glance, Real Vision has spoken to the co-founder of ETC and ADA, founder of Litecoin, and founder of Stellar to name a few. Real vision has left out the second eldest and third-largest digital asset by market cap and that is a fact.
    • CH
      Crag H.
      24 February 2020 @ 19:20
      Sorry, but Ripple Labs is running a centralized money grab. Avoid. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbloomberg/2019/03/01/is-ripple-a-scam/#21d97df079a4 https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/69voi5/ripple_is_a_scam/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/billybambrough/2019/08/18/ripples-xrp-branded-scam-by-bitcoin-analyst-as-lawsuit-row-intensifies/#231b13de1457
    • JH
      Jonathan H.
      25 February 2020 @ 04:23
      Funny thing is if you wanted to send BTC on XRPL as payment it would cost a fraction of the normal POW method. And every transaction on the XRPL uses XRP. "Tokenized assets of the future"? You can find that on the XRPL. Agree to disagree. But remember this when BTC hits ATH's and you are waiting hours to a day for your transaction to go through with exorbitant costs. XRP settles in about 3 seconds, and the cost? Fractions of a penny.
    • CH
      Crag H.
      26 February 2020 @ 06:41
      I'd rather settle in seconds using the lightning network on the most secure chain on the planet. No one controls Bitcoin. Ripple is centralized. You might be fine with that, I'm not.
    • JH
      Jonathan H.
      27 February 2020 @ 16:52
      Tell me again how decentralized BTC is when a hand full of players can initiate a rollback whenever they deem fit. "Answering questions on whether the firm would consider attempting to convince network stakeholders to roll back bitcoin network transactions, which would require pushing for consensus from major miners and mining pools to gather over 51 percent of the network’s total hashing power, Zhao said: “To be honest, we can actually do this probably within the next few days. But there are concerns that if we do a rollback on the bitcoin network at that scale, it may have some negative consequences, in terms of destroying the credibility for bitcoin.” The unprecedented step – which would have found a private business appealing to the distributed network of individuals who contribute to the operation of the cryptocurrency – was met with heavy criticism." https://www.coindesk.com/binance-may-consider-bitcoin-rollback-following-40-million-hack
    • CH
      Crag H.
      29 February 2020 @ 22:41
      How long have you been following this space? Just asking because you don't seem to understand how the system works. If 51% of the miners would do a rollback then 90% of the users (or something to that effect) would abandon those miners and side with the 49% who stayed on the original chain. It's a self-regulating system where the users choose which chain to use. As an example, Roger Ver and Jihan Wu tried to take control over the Bitcoin blockchain by convincing the majority of the miners to start accepting bigger blocks back in 2017. Even though more miners initially sided with Roger and Jihan they failed to convince the users and broader community so the market value stayed on the original chain. Miners don't control the network. The community does.
    • JH
      Jonathan H.
      5 March 2020 @ 14:43
      "If 51% of the miners would do a rollback then 90% of the users (or something to that effect) would abandon those miners and side with the 49% who stayed on the original chain." Seems to me that you know what 90% of BTC users are going to do even before it happens. You can say that the community is in control of the network, but that does not mean that it is true. All the community is doing is splitting up and following the select few individuals who actually control the network by choosing either the current iteration of BTC or the new coin made from the hard fork. POW is a joke with its numerous hard forks. Whenever there's a hard fork from BTC, money is "basically" printed out of thin air ( BTC, Bitcoin Cash, BSV). Not to mention the HIGH COSTS and SLOW SPEEDS that have not been successfully addressed regarding BTC. Let's face it, BTC's market price is ONLY high because it's the name brand crypto (presently). PRICE does not equate to VALUE. While BTC was the start, it will not be the final enterprise-grade cryptocurrency that will be used by financial institutions around the world. The lightning network was supposed to be ready by now yet transactions aren't 100% successful when the amount of money transferred goes over a certain threshold. No institution wants to be bothered by miners changing the size of blocks or deal with the high fees and slow transactions for pseudo-anonymous BTC that was originally supposed to topple governments and destroy the banking system. BTC, at this point, is merely a hedge against traditionally financial instruments and a pretty bad store of value.
  • MO
    Miguel O.
    4 March 2020 @ 02:49
    Any good "thing" divides a room. Interview, arts, politics, sports. This was no exception. This one seems to divide the generations, the investment "philosophies" and albeit...the sexes. Most negative comments on here come from names that are - albeit, male. Most negative comments come from the traditional investment mindset that has worked -- up until now. Most negative comments come from having to hear a woman speak "differently" about a "different idea" If you really value "Real Vision"...then let them produce their original conversation that "might" rub you the wrong way sometimes... It's what spurs growth, grandpa. This "new thinking" is also what allows you to press play and watch 1080p on cutting-edge news for $20/mo. Or we could just go back to sub 1% bonds and a very overbought equities via the WSJ (paper format) Up and to the right... MO
    • WB
      William B.
      4 March 2020 @ 02:52
      Miguel I don't respect this reply.
  • SP
    Steve P.
    2 March 2020 @ 22:15
    Naturally, costs of healthcare and education will increase exponentially. Children need a place to stay and learn safely, and parents age! $6k / yr mandatory healthcare mandate one of the higher annual penalties.
  • WB
    William B.
    29 February 2020 @ 06:03
    Does she own any Bitcoin?
  • LG
    Lisa G.
    24 February 2020 @ 21:19
    Enjoyed this conversation and am very interested in the topic of Crypto in Retirement. To that end I'd like to offer a wish list of more specific subtopics that come to mind: * Perspectives on turn-key Bitcoin IRA services versus a DIY approach (e.g. GBTC in self-managed IRAs). * Thoughts on pension funds meeting their 7% mandate by investing in stablecoins that yield 8% or higher via platforms like BlockFi, Celsius, and similar. * Individuals looking at supplementing or replacing their S&P retirement dividends with crypto interest payments via aforementioned platforms. How this service may grow to meet exponential demand in the event of an S&P plateau or decline. * Time-to-profit timelines of crypto (e.g. 3yrs holding of BTC historically yields profit regardless of entry point) versus more traditional S&P time-to-profit timeframes depending on market conditions. * Discussion on crypto allocation profiles (including BTC v ALT) in a retirement portfolio from generational perspectives (Boomer, Generation X, Millennial). Just some food for thought for future content. I’m certain the ecosystem of RV experts would have valuable insights on the above. Keep up the great work! Lisa
  • HC
    Hahns C.
    20 February 2020 @ 16:09
    Fundamentally since the US laws are not on the side of using crypto in everyday transactions and crypto is not readily fungible within legitimized US institutions "trusting" in crypto is lacking. I have heard many nightmares of people losing $Millions in the blink of an eye. Just look at what happened to Mt. Gox, or ask Chris Larsen, The Winklevoss Twins and Derek Rose. Why is there ANY risk of sudden loss if what you are buying is being characterized as a cash equivalent.
    • TM
      The-First-James M.
      21 February 2020 @ 17:56
      Because you (not you personally) may be a muppet like Peter Schiff, who failed to backup his wallet recovery seed, OR you made the mistake of trusting a Crypto Exchange to custody it for you; then it got hacked, or went bust due to fraud. People who follow BTC security best practice tend not to lose their investment.
    • HC
      Hahns C.
      24 February 2020 @ 20:47
      Also - why would anyone want to be part of a banking system that supports terrorist, human traffickers and drug dealers. I find it ironic that a Millennial would bash the very institutions that brought the free world she thrives in. I find it ironic that this female Millennial would create, profit and support systems that abuse women world wide with human trafficking. I think people that support Bitcoin and other cryptos might reconsider putting their treasure into things that help the world rather hurt others.
  • DT
    Diego T.
    24 February 2020 @ 05:22
    "Income inequality" solution more robots lol.. She should learn how to listen from time to time
  • DT
    Diego T.
    24 February 2020 @ 05:18
    "Higher Value Activities".. As if there is something wrong with working with your hands.
  • JH
    Jesse H.
    19 February 2020 @ 16:01
    Ash did a good job, but thought Meltem was very scattered and unstructured / unsystematic in her thinking. She would do well as an investor to slow down in her thinking, reconsider some of the core assumptions she is making (there were many here in the interview) and also try to focus more on the interview topic at hand (crypto). This interview was very unfocused and not especially substantive. More of a subjective and cultural commentary, which may be relevant, but also less relevant to a platform like RV.
    • JH
      Jesse H.
      19 February 2020 @ 16:08
      Sorry, that should read, “...which may be relevant to the evolution of crypto, but less relevant to a platform like RV.”
    • JH
      Jesse H.
      19 February 2020 @ 16:10
      Raoul & team - if you could please have someone on to talk in depth about crypto in a more rigorous and thoughtful way. Thanks very much. Cheers.
    • JL
      Jack L.
      19 February 2020 @ 18:21
      A good example of "rigorous" was Simon Mikhalovich's trenchant (but not unfair) remarks on comparing bitcoin with gold. What bitcoin needs if it is to gain greater legitimacy and possible acceptance over the coming decade is more people with S. Mikhalovich's presentation style and skills arguing carefully for the positive sides. Also perhaps making efforts to clarify some of the existential mental paradigm shifts that may be required. Bitcoin is by its very nature a globalizing instrument & technology, with all the implications that has in a sociopolitical climate which has swung away from liberal-globalist idealism towards conservative-nationalist skepticism and protectionism.
    • CT
      Crispim T.
      23 February 2020 @ 19:35
      She prefers speed to patience building solid value. That's why she got involved in all those miracle shitcoin fast projects vs focusing just on the less exciting Bitcoin (BTC) that destroyed them all. Turtle, Hare. She prefers betting on speed, not the ultimate antifragile winner.
  • CN
    Chase N.
    19 February 2020 @ 17:09
    As I continue to play the chess game in my mind, I also come to the conclusion that a decentralized crypto will win out, but it's not Bitcoin, its Ethereum.
    • AT
      Adam T.
      19 February 2020 @ 20:32
      Why? ETH lacks fundamental aspects of sound money.
    • AS
      Aki S.
      20 February 2020 @ 12:34
      Win out? I see no competition between the two. Such different use cases!
    • MM
      Marv M.
      21 February 2020 @ 15:56
      Decentralized Finance
    • CT
      Crispim T.
      23 February 2020 @ 19:19
      Ethereum is centralized (key leaders easy to target, full nodes near impossible to run), already had a major rollback (not immutable), it's extremely fragile given to its very flexible coding language (got hacked/exploited multiple times, including this week, for millions), keeps going in multiple directions without ever finding them and to be fair, it's just an interesting experiment. Using the Internet as an analogy from the 80s/90s, BTC is TCP/IP, the base layer, the core. Ethereum is something built on top of it, loosely, with a lot of range but a huge attack surface and extremely fragile. I don't think Ethereum will fail, as it will evolve in many different useful implementations, but BTC is different, it's the core layer. Slow, secure, antifragile - and that's where you want to save your money/savings, which is what this site is about. BTC is money and wealth preservation. ETH is a computer science project, going somewhere, but totally different.
  • CH
    Crag H.
    23 February 2020 @ 13:51
    The Internet didn't care about business models. It didn't care about borders. It didn't care if thousands upon thousands of companies would be bankrupted. Technologists built the network because they could see the enormous impact it would have on the world. Bitcoin doesn't care.
    • CT
      Crispim T.
      23 February 2020 @ 19:08
      This is accurate. BTC has ignored pretty much all "analyst" misconceptions so far. 11 years crushing everything and not really caring. 1 block out on 10 minutes on average, that's about it. Repeat, wait.
  • SV
    Santiago V. | Contributor
    20 February 2020 @ 22:09
    Disclaimer: I'm a huge proponent of Digital Assets but we need to point out a significant fallacy in the argument for Bitcoin as a risk/reward proposition, and by Bitcoin I don't mean the semantic proxy for all digital assets, I mean the current chain. Demirors states that every day that goes by with Bitcoin persisting is a day in which the probability of zero value decreases and asymmetric returns increase. This is categorically false logic and unsubstantiated. Although the reward/risk ratio is high for Bitcoin when looking at historical price appreciation it is an incredibly nascent market full of manipulation, wash trading, whales, and lack of real liquidity. Furthermore, it does not yet present an existential threat to fiat currencies and when it does you can rest assured that the governments of the world will make it "bend the knee". At the end of the day, hashing power requires grids and manufacturers, which require fiat to pay the bills. Last I checked the Bitcoin production supply chain is denominated in fiat and until it isn't and is dependent on the societies around it, it will remain subservient. It can always go to zero because it's a human abstraction and in imperfect one at that. What I would propose as an alternative is a way in which value becomes currency agnostic. Instead of hoping that there will be some magical, immutable currency safe haven from the ills of the world what is really needed is true price discovery, transactional freedom, and degrees of freedom. This can only be had via interoperability between value systems; fiat, centralized/decentralized, p2p, blockchains, DLT, etc. This interoperability will only come about if we adopt the Internet of Value and an open source standard like the Interledger Protocol (ILP). This protocol is modelled after the internet data layer TCP/IP and offers the world the best hope for a non-hegemonic system. I frankly don't want early BTC maximalists becoming the next hegemons, no thanks.
    • CH
      Crag H.
      23 February 2020 @ 13:38
      With all due respect: Do you really think the world's financial system is going to be run on hundreds of different protocols? It literally makes zero sense technically. The only reason I can for shilling a multi ledger system is that you want some random project to succeed because you own the token. Yes, some people found Bitcoin early and was made filthy rich. Yes, some of them are assholes. Yes, I also wish I got in early. But this is a grassroots movement with a sound ethos that took off organically. Everyone had the same opportunity.
  • MM
    Marv M.
    21 February 2020 @ 15:55
    Ethereum & Decentralized Finance > Bitcoin
    • CT
      Crispim T.
      21 February 2020 @ 17:43
      Ethereum is constantly going somewhere and never reaching it. First it was decentralized Uber/airBnB, then it was prediction markets, then ICOs, then stablecoins, then DeFi, and now it appears we’ve run out of narratives and it’s just a very bad copy of Bitcoin (without the scarcity / decentralization). It will be good for learning, but still a massive failure, not much good came out of it except an insane wave of scams (ICOs), that was its main purpose. And making Vitalik rich. BTC is money, something that affects everyone. ETH will eventually evolve into something useful, but that's far in the the future and it will be a toolset, not monetary value.
    • TM
      The-First-James M.
      21 February 2020 @ 17:52
      Maybe.
    • CH
      Crag H.
      23 February 2020 @ 13:24
      How many can (and are willing) run a full ETH node? Oh, sorry. I mean *archive node*? Crickets.
  • CT
    Crispim T.
    22 February 2020 @ 01:32
    OMG. I have 80% of my net worth in BTC after 4 years studying it and and decades saving and it's amazing how videos like this are representing those choices. Meltem is just a shitcoiner - she has shilled all sorts of absolute failures/scams in the past 5 years.... has no focus at all. Fail, fail fail, fail... but knows something works out there. And yes it does, BTC works. But speakers like these... they're the noise in your signal. Go Bitcoin (BTC), that's the asset that has not failed ONCE in 11 years and has beaten EVERYTHING, gold, stocks, bonds, whatever you want - BTC beat it - and in many countries, it pays 0% capital gains tax at the moment (Portugal for example) - almost NOTHING offers that in 2020. Ignore Meltem's or Peter Schiff's nonsense. Stock up on BTC. Secure it and wait. Problem solved. Your saving are secure and value is preserved. If in doubt, learn about the past 11 years of Bitcoin's history. Books: "The Bitcoin Standard - Saifedean Ammous" "The Little Bitcoin Book" "The Internet of Money" This trio will get you way way ahead of all the sheep still sleeping in the matrix.
    • CH
      Crag H.
      23 February 2020 @ 13:20
      Imagine that a public company finds the cure for all cancer types. An amazing breakthrough and obviously a fantastic stock investment. Thousands of other companies shortly thereafter IPOs on claims that they have come up with similar drugs that also cures cancer but that also taste better and have better looking boxes. However, only the drug from the public company have been *proven* to work. Which stock do you buy? That's the choice between BTC and the rest.
  • CP
    Cameron P.
    22 February 2020 @ 11:20
    What I hear her saying is that because high house prices, excessive student debut, inheritance risk, underfunded pensions etc., I'm so far behind that I've chosen to swing for the fences and make binary bets hoping to hit a mega-multi-bagger so I can catch-up and overtake. Fail-fast-fail-often. We know it works because that's what the venture capital driven tech investing scene has looked like for many years now already. Catch-a-faster-rocketship.
  • AN
    An N.
    22 February 2020 @ 07:10
    you need to do a video on crypto cashflow dividends on alts
  • MP
    Matias P.
    21 February 2020 @ 03:30
    Dilutive to realvision
    • CT
      Crispim T.
      22 February 2020 @ 01:34
      Agree. Too much diversion with scam talk. Realvision should focus on the main single real store of value that has provided beyond everything else these past 11 years - Bitcoin (BTC). Look at the numbers, there's nothing like BTC in the charts. Meltem and others just add noise to that key signal. BTC. DYOR, you'll be happy with the results.
  • DN
    D N.
    19 February 2020 @ 01:38
    As a younger millennial listening to real vision - everything meltem raised resonates. Am a bit surprised at the like / dislike ratio. The next 50-60 years of our investing lives needs to be navigated differently than our past - so there will always be a generational tension. On the crypto side I feel that one thing people (generations older esp) discount heavily is that part of the "crypto rabbit hole" is actually digging deep into the long history of money. As a result, I would wager that there is a larger (and growing) portion of the milennial generation discovering crypto specifically (vs other generations ) who really *understands* the mechanics and different implementations of money and implications/trade-offs of different banking models (fractional or fully reserved banking models with bank deposits and various forms of wholesale collateral). Combine this with a natural bias by millennials generally for having grown up in a world where information and ideas are less segregated by jurisdictional borders (eg vis a vis the Internet and social networks), and you quickly arrive at why non jurisdiction based global money settlement networks (eg bitcoin) and global public general value settlement networks (eg Ethereum and others) become interesting and not implausible. For me, what is really *interesting* is not so much what happens in a world with cbdc or bitcoin etc - I take that as a given - Its more what will millennials who have studied the history of money vis a vis crypto will do, when they step into decision making positions across society. I already see this in finance where even in places like banks (I work at one) this generational divide exists. Paired with openness to non jurisdiction based financial services and lessons learnt tinkering with *real life experiments* in different crypto financial settlement networks, this younger gen will inevitably come to the table with new ideas and ways to use digital financial tools appropriately calibrated with their immediate view of the world.
    • tc
      thomas c.
      19 February 2020 @ 02:13
      As an older boomer I appreciate hearing the view of the younger generations. After watching many crypto talks I've come to the conclusion no one really knows what will happen or where it is going but the younger generation will be the ones to take it there and they are the ones I want to listen to. Thanks for your comments
    • RC
      Radigan C.
      19 February 2020 @ 02:32
      Yeah same here. 1980 model and just found myself nodding along, didn't get it.
    • TB
      Theodore B.
      19 February 2020 @ 04:03
      I'm a Millenial also, I am obsessed with crypto, and I just found the interview to be boring. It felt like silicon valley VC talk. I would have preferred: "What is crypto, how does this topic fit into the retirement theme, and why should I invest?" Meltem is very sharp and I've seen her plenty of times in other interviews, i just think this interview was incoherent and didn't drive any points home.
    • JR
      Jason R.
      21 February 2020 @ 23:04
      Very well said. I am fascinated by the questions I get from the younger crowd. It really tends to get people thinking. Younger people seem to get the store of value concept pretty well. It's actually a lot easier to explain "Store of Value" when there is a static amount of currency. It's tough because crypto-enthusiasts are such a small subset of people, but I am very interested in the Crypto/FinTech products they will build.
  • DD
    Dwayne D.
    19 February 2020 @ 02:28
    Telsa could go back to 200 in an instant so to mention Telsa to support any truth doesn't make sense.
    • CT
      Crispim T.
      21 February 2020 @ 17:46
      TSLA is a great example. Along with BTC. Had lots of naysayers for over 10 years and destroyed them all. Fundamentals are strong. It will become a standard.
  • CT
    Crispim T.
    21 February 2020 @ 17:39
    It's all about Bitcoin (BTC). Too bad Meltem has a shady reputation, having been involved in multiple past scamcoins that she pushed strongly and now once again diluting things with the "Crypto" nonsense. The type of crowd that gives BTC a bad reputation for no reason.
  • dm
    dennis m.
    21 February 2020 @ 13:27
    Tried very hard to watch but could not finish it as was not "interesting". Reminds me of why I left Corp world at 48. So much BS being tossed around.
  • AK
    Andrew K.
    20 February 2020 @ 10:57
    Tough to get past the uptalk delivery. https://youtu.be/NQWej-hMiZI
    • DK
      David K.
      21 February 2020 @ 11:48
      That combined with constant use of "right?' made it impossible to finish this one. Exhausting actually.
  • LL
    Lukee L.
    20 February 2020 @ 23:11
    Her arrogance is suffocating, this is coming from a millennial
    • MM
      Michael M.
      21 February 2020 @ 02:26
      agreed ... and I own bitcoin
  • ly
    lena y.
    20 February 2020 @ 20:53
    enjoy a new perspective from the younger generation!
  • RA
    Ryan A.
    20 February 2020 @ 18:39
    enteresting
  • DB
    David B.
    20 February 2020 @ 15:19
    It was so Enteresting.
  • BB
    Bob B.
    20 February 2020 @ 03:45
    Wow - I used to be just like her 30 years ago! She's able to read so much into so little! I miss those days when I had the answers. Blockchain a.k.a. distributed ledger technology has important business value. Crypto currencies are unable to differentiate in the day-to-day significant value to people from debit cards, credit cards, apple pay, paypal, ... Average Joe does not look past what currency she/he use. There is the under-banked who can certainly benefit from Bitcoin. Also those hiding transacting (criminals mostly) can hide in Bitcoin. Poorly explored profitable opportunities come from identifying the Business Moment - a product or service which provides value in the moment. The scale and speed of the Internet, technology and data are presenting interacting 'In The Moment'. Payments are but one small facet. Blockchain is one aspect and cryptocurrencies are at odds with all digital payment methods.
  • PC
    Philip C.
    18 February 2020 @ 17:53
    Bitcoin is fine as a speculative investment until it grows large enough that central banks consider it a rival and a threat to their monetary control. It will then be banned under the same pretext that cash is currently under attack: it is used for money laundering, for tax evasion, for illegal purchases, for financing terrorism, etc. Defenders might say that its distributed nature means you cannot put a stop to its use, but that is missing the point - if it is illegal most people will not use it for fear of being caught. Until it gets that big, speculate away, just keep an eye on the exit.
    • RM
      Robert M.
      18 February 2020 @ 19:01
      Developed countries are not going to allow for digital currencies to be widespread for all the reasons you stated. Just not going to happen. So if you invest in bitcoin, it is just a question of determining what value another trader will pay you for those zeros and ones down the road. Bitcoin will not be something that people can use to buy food, clothing, shelter on a widespread basis. It is great that some people have been able to get their money out of a country where the currency is crashing using Bitcoin, but see limited use down the road.
    • CH
      Crag H.
      18 February 2020 @ 19:36
      My thoughts: 1. States and governments will be surprisingly positive towards Bitcoin once the global economy comes crashing down. Perhaps not the US and some other countries of the western world, but those who are sick and tired of the USD stranglehold will embrace Bitcoin as a means of value transfer and/or collateral. 2. The narrative of Bitcoin only being used by criminals is more or less irrelevant. It was a concern and a prevailing narrative some years ago but today you rarely see it. At this point everyone know that there's more to Bitcoin than that. 3. Bit torrents and file sharing have been illegal for years and years. The Piratebay have been under constant attack by governments and corporations for more than a decade but are still up and running. Heck, they even still own the original domain name. Not saying governments can make life difficult for bitcoiners (they certainly can) but if/when they start banning Bitcoin they have already lost. That would be the final confirmation. In the end, Bitcoin will not succeed because people want to overthrow governments and evade taxes. Bitcoin will succeed because it's better than our current monetary rails by an order of magnitude.
    • RV
      Ryan V.
      18 February 2020 @ 23:00
      This and the vast majority is mined in China. Once China launches their own crypto currency they will stomp out bitcoin. China is your counterparty if you own bitcoin as it can’t exist without miners. Sure others will pick up the mantle but it won’t be as secure.
    • tc
      thomas c.
      19 February 2020 @ 02:28
      I'm starting to see Bitcoin primarily as an alt savings vehicle. Maybe closer to digital gold. Gold I bought in the 90s is up almost 600%. When I was a kid I had a savings account and got 3-5%. I put all my money into it and watched it grow. That's gone. I think as long as crypto doesn't interfere with $ hegemony, paying for oil and paying your taxes with it, it can co exist with the current fiat regime. Where it goes from there is anyone's guess.
    • AK
      Ado K.
      19 February 2020 @ 22:31
      Bitcoin is a challenge of ideas, and it raises the question if people should be as free in their use of money as they are in their speech. If your government bans Bitcoin, then really that tells you all you need to know about the quality of your democracy. At some point and time, death itself can not be worse then being a glorified slave.
  • FL
    Fabiana L.
    19 February 2020 @ 18:06
    This is one of the few crypto discussions I actually enjoyed listening to. More power to Meltem! Very clear and easy to understand.
  • JQ
    Joseph Q.
    19 February 2020 @ 07:07
    Meltem is all over the place in the interview. Great points but hard to follow. She is very smart. But maybe real vision keeps her focused next time.
    • JH
      Jesse H.
      19 February 2020 @ 15:58
      Absolutely my response to this as well. Very scattered and too many assumptions which are not necessarily accurate. She is far too sure of these assumptions and needs to examine them at a deeper level, at least that’s what it seems.
  • PF
    Patrick F.
    19 February 2020 @ 08:34
    Mark Twain gold mine definition - " a hole in the ground with a liar on top". I don't see that much has changed if you add Digital. Of course there will be some winners. As usual Caveat Emptor. I'd place a side bet that Millennials and Pensions will be big losers.
    • AA
      Aymman A.
      19 February 2020 @ 15:34
      Agree completely with your conclusions and side bet. But this was still a great interview. I loved it!
  • Ja
    James a.
    19 February 2020 @ 10:34
    she doesnt know much and there is so much confirmation bias in whatever she is saying. best 3 performing assets in jan 2020 is beyond meat, tesla and bitcoin? seriously? that is cherry picking
    • AA
      Aymman A.
      19 February 2020 @ 14:32
      That may be why this interview is so useful. Trading is a blood sport. You cannot win unless you understand the mind of your opponent. Even if you disagree with everything she say, this interview really allows you to understand how millennials think. Is that not valuable by itself?
  • MH
    Michael H.
    19 February 2020 @ 14:10
    What is "so interesting" is how she is so sure about the future
  • AM
    Alastair M.
    19 February 2020 @ 09:23
    Fascinating perspective, great interview
  • UJ
    Ulf J.
    18 February 2020 @ 09:06
    Milton Friedman predicts the rise of Bitcoin in 1999 the people who think this will go away must rethink. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MnQJFEVY7s
    • JL
      Jack L.
      19 February 2020 @ 08:13
      I adore the naive virtue behind the Bitcoin idea. I hold a certain amount of BTC as a pure speculative play; I think it is very likely to make another logarithmic leap upward at some point in the next 3 to 10 years. I have severe doubts as to whether the five permanent members of the UN Security Council will turn over their monetary sovereignty to a quasi-anonymous distributed network with effectively (by comparison with central banks) zero inflation. Governments stand on three primary powers: the power to make laws, the power to make war, and the power to print money at their discretion. My best guess is that if push comes to shove and major currencies start collapsing, the solution brought forth by a consortium of governments will not be to choose (or allow) bitcoin as a new monetary stanard, rather instead a separately-issued-and-controlled crypto token that is backed by physical assets. (Gold?)
  • MC
    Michael C.
    18 February 2020 @ 09:38
    The content in this video did not address its title. Many great (in fact the key) questions were asked which are essential to address for any prospective crypto investor without any rigorous attempt at answering them. At times seemed incoherent. Dissapointed that I needed to make this comment when there is so much other great content on Real Vision
    • CB
      Clifford B.
      18 February 2020 @ 13:54
      Agreed. Grey at best.
    • SA
      Scott A.
      18 February 2020 @ 18:57
      Agreed as well. I tried to listen but gave up.
    • NR
      Nic R.
      19 February 2020 @ 02:55
      I agree. I feel like several of the videos in this series are not on the same level as what attracted me to real vision. As someone who is behind the paywall, I would like them to be more transparent with me in what is sponsored and what is not. With regards to bitcoin/crypto, I would like to see some shorter talks on more specific topics with subject matter experts. If we're going to take crypto seriously as an asset lets go deeper than "interest rates are negative in many countries, central banks are a fiat printing press...so why not bitcoin?". There is plenty of that out there already. Lets look at the risks of investing in crypto. Do I have to worry about quantum computing? The risks of large mining networks and the different incentives for miners/network operators? What does a halving or forking event actually mean in terms of real-world economics? Correlations to other assets? Can a large government track me, seize/freeze assets or shut down a network?
    • JL
      Jack L.
      19 February 2020 @ 08:02
      I entered cryptoland in 2014, made some speculative money, got out after a couple of years when I realized that there's no "there" there. I peep in on social media from time to time, the space is still too ideologically crazed. My point being: I have some background by which to judge this video. The interviewer did as well as he could do given the circumstances. The interviewee seemed to be on a mission to deliver The Word. (In the evangelical sense.) ------- Also agree that several other videos in this week's Retirement series aren't up to RV's high standards. Consider relaxing away from a strict daily release cadence? The reason so much "main stream media" content sucks is that the MSM has to fill space 24/7/365 to keep viewer eyeballs. I'd rather see 2 or 3 good RV releases a week than 2 goods and 4 or 5 mediocres. (And yes, I'd still pay the annual RV TV subscrip fee.) It's apparent in some of the vids that RV's "have us create a custom video to showcase your product" sales strategy is working, but I question whether it strengthens or weakens the RV brand in the long term. Maybe it's not a question of strengthen vs. weaken, rather more narrow vs. broaden. What is RV's long-term goal? To be bought out by a major & become a sub-brand of CNBC or MSN? (I hope not.)
  • AA
    Aymman A.
    18 February 2020 @ 21:33
    Excellent interview. Very informative. The cultural and generational divides are very important to understand. Why are many listeners irritated by this narrative? Because it does not confirm to their world view? I don’t quite understand. Please have her back in the future. One thing that she did not address is: regardless of the story and the enthusiasm bitcoin really has been a high beta SPX. How does Ms. Demirors expect it to behave in a down turn? I am not talking about the next 10 years. I am talking about the next 18 months.
    • ef
      eric f.
      19 February 2020 @ 04:54
      Methinks many are more irritated by her manner than her message - borderline arrogant, borderline rude (cutting the interviewer short repeatedly). The message itself was quite informative for us "boomers"
  • JY
    John Y.
    18 February 2020 @ 15:20
    Ash needed to push back on some of these “beliefs” using “facts” allowing reality to be separated from the bullshit being spewed.
    • MD
      Mike D.
      19 February 2020 @ 03:20
      Or YOU could push back and state these facts here for us to consider vs. the "bullshit."
  • JG
    James G.
    18 February 2020 @ 23:43
    I'm never going to use a 'digital' coin created by the scum bag Zuckerberg.
    • MD
      Mike D.
      19 February 2020 @ 03:14
      Informative and insightful comment. Thanks for sharing with us.
  • RC
    Radigan C.
    19 February 2020 @ 02:31
    I listened really carefully to see what the pain points were because Neil Howe triggered me and you guys were cool about it, so wanted to see if it was the opposite now. Maybe it was, because I found myself nodding along to most her points, and the things which I may have thought were a bit bleak or disagreed, just shrugged, but could still see her point as a GenI millennial myself. So if I'm missing something tell me. I guess I agree with her on the political comment. Pretty much see the democrat vs republican as adult team sports with a super bowl every 4 years at this point. I don't even vote. Neither one pays my rent. I've fought under both republicans and dems, lived in the US, socialist countries, sharia law, and hardline regimes...I have to be honest, I was the same level of happiness through it all. I didn't think the Boomer comment was over the top. I mean, Bernanke YOLO'd all of ours future on never before tried monetary policy by buying toxic MBS from banks. But I get it if you showed up every day 30 years, paid your taxes, did the right thing and are getting killed by low interest along with us. My parents are in that boat. The dystopian parts didn't bother me. If dudes in man dresses who can't spell their name or read can give me a run for my money with AKs from Charlie Wilson's War and still be there 19 years later after the invasion, we should be ok with digital cash on our smart phone. Won't be the end of the world. Also doubt we'll ever get 100% cashless...think a lot of demand for the dollar is actually overseas as the savings vehicle of choice for people in the blue $100 bills. From Sudan to Kyrgyzstan, wherever I went, that was the preferred unit. They didn't like the old $100, too many Chinese fakes, but there is a huge demand for $100 bills as savings vehicle for most people in the third world that I think most don't track. I actually think Ms.Demirors is pretty conservative on her asset allocations. I look at the S&P500 and I can just see the conversation happening last week: "Yo, someone get Xi on the phone! You tell him Apple futures are falling and he needs to beat those people out of their homes and get that attendance up at FoxConn! I'm only seeing 10% efficiency and if Apple slips anymore, those Q1 numbers are going to look horrible. We need to pump!" I honestly felt less gross doing dirty deeds overseas than when I buy US equities now. Just feels wrong to be a part of. This is why us Millennials like BTC. Better trusting Tron on a glowing blue lightcycle that rides off with my money into the matrix maybe to never be seen again, maybe to bring back millions, than any politician that is trying to chain us in debt, doesn't understand why I feel the way I do, and doesn't care at the havoc they are causing for people all over the world that aren't as fortunate to have access to US dollar or markets. The question I ponder is if BTC does work well...what the hell am I going to buy with the money? Nothing really comes to mind, I just like the game.
  • HR
    Humberto R.
    19 February 2020 @ 01:21
    Ignore the higher than normal down votes. This is a great interview with good insights into the crypto investing world that is just starting to disrupt.
  • jS
    john S.
    18 February 2020 @ 23:30
    Talks like a millenial
  • IO
    Indi O.
    18 February 2020 @ 22:36
    This was one of the few crypto discussions I've actually learned new and useful things from. Definitely not a beginner's intro to crypto, but lots of food for thought for those of us already following the space. Every time she would say, "what's interesting is..." I'd hear something following that made me think her preface really should be, "what's scary is...." There are some real risks of this getting pretty ugly in terms of a dystopian future. The one thing we can count on is human selfishness and greed, which makes decentralization and privacy winning out over authoritarian control likely in at least the US. She raised a lot of fascinating concepts. One that particularly stood out to me is the uncertainty between whether Boomers will be transferring a great deal of wealth to Millenials over the next decade, or whether in fact it will be eaten up by healthcare costs. Here in the US, it depends a lot on what happens with ideas around healthcare financing that are up for debate right now. If it goes to individual families to pay for end of life care, I don't know what Millenials can really hope for other than cryptocurrency investments they're making now paying off later. As the buying power of an hour of labor decreases, and the power of capital to create more capital accelerates, what else is there for the young worker with no capital accumulated or inherited?
  • VD
    Vishal D.
    18 February 2020 @ 11:02
    yeah pretty bland interview with no substance...just watch Dan Tapiero and you get everything you need. More DTAP please
    • MW
      Moritz W.
      18 February 2020 @ 21:59
      Bitcoin-Only please!
  • DS
    David S.
    18 February 2020 @ 21:01
    Interesting how some see a "generational bashing" theme promoted in this interview. The discussion of generational changes seem pretty factually based to me... I see her describe objective trends (massive inter-generational transfer of wealth over next 10 years), not the subjective ("OK Boomer") criticisms of previous generational behaviors which seem to be growing more popular lately. Her description of the asymmetric risks of not only crypto-currency but of all the paradigm shifting technologies developing right in front of us (like it or not!), seem pretty spot on. She gets a thumbs up from me... DCS.
  • TR
    Thomas R.
    18 February 2020 @ 20:10
    Pizza and Thailand is a weird combination :-)
  • HC
    Hahns C.
    18 February 2020 @ 15:38
    Generational bashing is not becoming. Just because you've made some good financial bets does not give you the liberty to be negatively judgmental of generational repetitions.
    • DS
      David S.
      18 February 2020 @ 16:52
      Thanks for identifying the problem of promoting one point of view with negative comments about any group. Ms. Demirors points of view would be more effectively communicated by making the point without making disparaging remarks. She is smart and engaging, but the negative comments cut off her message to many people. This is the only reason I can give for the large number of thumbs down for an excellent and informative interview. Unfortunately this has become normalized in most discussions; politics and the news being the prime examples. I hope that Ms. Demirors will take this comment constructively, as I really appreciate her insights. DLS
  • DS
    David S.
    18 February 2020 @ 16:25
    Excellent interview. A very broad based interview that shows the "gold rush" mentality of the digital market. There is no doubt the the world is becoming digitized at light speed. Digital currency is an end run around the weaponization of the the US dollar. Foreign Exchange traders will be able to handle currency fluctuations in the digital world with skin in the game. Do not expect another "Bretton Woods" fixed currency exchange agreement. I also expect the US dollar to remain the major reserve currency in Central Banks for a long time because of the size of the US economy and its legal system. DLS
  • GJ
    Graham J.
    18 February 2020 @ 11:30
    Awesome! Thanks!