“The Second Wave Is Going to Be Much, Much Worse”

Published on
May 5th, 2020
Duration
47 minutes


“The Second Wave Is Going to Be Much, Much Worse”

The Interview ·
Featuring Dr. Dena Grayson and Pedro da Costa

Published on: May 5th, 2020 • Duration: 47 minutes

Dr. Dena Grayson speaks to Pedro Da Costa about the ongoing efforts of medical professionals to save lives and stop the COVID-19 pandemic in its tracks. She evaluates the promising new drug Remdesivir and discusses her work on similar drugs such as Galidesivir and Favipiravir. She shares her thoughts on herd immunity, the possibility of a vaccine, as well as the different efforts of governments worldwide to contain the pandemic. Filmed on April 30, 2020.

Comments

Transcript

  • GJ
    Gino J.
    4 June 2020 @ 05:13
    For those of you who politicized this interview or feel like your commander and chief is being attacked, sit your asses back in the boat and let me row you back to shore. Dr. Grayson is providing analyzed data based on her expertise. It’s no different than your CIO, your CFO, your COO providing data. Data-driven decision-making is not just a fleeting buzzword. It's become a powerful way for the C-suite to make informed and strategic choices. As Harvard Business Review highlights, "data and algorithms have a tendency to outperform human intuition in a wide variety of circumstances." This interview is not the holly grail on Covid-19, and shouldn’t be viewed as a left or right dissertation. They are data points in terms of risk management that you should consider as you manage your business and portfolio through 2020 and possibly 2021.
  • TZ
    Tibor Z.
    11 May 2020 @ 23:48
    One of the best interviews on RV I've ever seen! More of her through the pandemic! We need her realistic, fact based views! This is exactly why I believe there will be another leg down on the SP500! This virus is just started to spread it's wings and therefore the economic consequences will be of epic proportions! As sad as it is and I am also one of the many sitting back home, jobless still it is good to know what I am facing with so I can focus on my study what I started right today as I had the inner feeling that this pandemic is going to last long. She was painfully honest about the Trump administrations failure and she is a 100% right. I watched Trump's comments about this in February and I thought there will be a total chaos. I am a European so I can observe it more clearly than those 300 dislikers, I believe! No offense. Peace.
    • WM
      Will M.
      14 May 2020 @ 18:11
      Sorry Tibor, respect your opinion, but given the response this video has received I would definitely NOT want to see her on RVT again. I want to stick to the money making option and leave the politics to Zero Hedge of Facebook. Let's not politicize this channel further.
    • JS
      Johannes S.
      17 May 2020 @ 20:36
      @Will M., when politics are at odds with the science things, then it is important to have scientists on the show who are able to speak truth to power. Dr. Fauci can't do that openly because he knows its too important for the country that he keeps his job. I definitely want to continue seeing her and guests like her who are able to point to facts & science that can help form the framework for our financial decisions.
    • WM
      Will M.
      30 May 2020 @ 14:09
      Johannes I am not questioning the science. I am a scientist by degree and a chartered engineer by career. However the science can be colored by political views and as I am sure you have already heard, there are lies, dammed lies and statistics. Politics has invaded science, just take the farrago over the usefulness of masks "or not". As I said elsewhere, I do not disagree with many of her points, but the manner it was expressed was partisan in the extreme for a finance service. The interviewer also appeared to egg her on. ...... and NO I did not note for Trump.
  • MO
    Marti O.
    25 May 2020 @ 11:43
    Really sad that you used the pandemic to provide a platform for this "opportunist" to spew political positioning statements. I tuned in to learn something but unfortunately left with less respect for RV.
  • MO
    Marcin O.
    24 May 2020 @ 00:40
    Produce and test at the same time: we know this as a long convexity / long volatility trade in finance. Makes perfect sense, and billions in "premiums" is indeed not much.
    • MO
      Marcin O.
      24 May 2020 @ 00:49
      (no comments editing on this platform) I meant "produce and test" the vaccine.
  • TR
    Thomas R.
    23 May 2020 @ 13:39
    Interesting interview, however she grades the current administration’s advisors response an F, when there were renown doctors like, Chief of Infectious Disease, U of PA Med Center, who also serves on the board of advisors to CDC, and who in early March was publicly on record convincingly touting that CoVID 19 was no more an issue than any other flu. And that he suspects ~75,000 deaths would be consistent with his projections. Perhaps he could join Pedro in the next interview?
  • RM
    Robert M.
    20 May 2020 @ 20:48
    I find it very interesting how some of "the critical facts" seem to have changed since this interview! And the original "models" (GIGO)? How about blaming the CCP?.
  • SS
    Steven S.
    8 May 2020 @ 05:24
    Excellent interview. I found Dr. Garyson's comments to be factual. For some bizarre reason, science has been politicized (global warming, COVID-19, etc.). As a medical school professor and scientific researcher, please try to put politics aside and focus on the evidence when evaluating these topics. When someone is for or against quarantines, let's all examine the facts and repercussions instead of jumping to polarized conclusions on the basis of political tribalism. Use your brain and come to your own conclusion, not one dictated by a political party. Further, recognize that some people have been researching topics such as viral pandemics for decades and it may be a good idea to listen to what they have to say. Equally outlandish is the idea that Fauci's views are equally or less insightful than Trump's on COVID-19, which I've heard espoused recently by some. Trump may have some knowledge about NY real estate, but he clearly has no idea what he's talking about with regard to SARS-CoV-2, COVID-19, epidemiology, virology, pulmonary medicine, immunology, etc. Fauci has a stellar reputation in the field and accumulated wisdom and knowledge from decades of hard work. He has jointly developed cures for diseases and has exceptional knowledge in virology, immunology, and medicine. Fauci is also a humble individual--he's turned down the NIH director position (Fauci's NIAID director) on multiple occasions.
    • JS
      Johannes S.
      17 May 2020 @ 20:44
      Why so many people give a thumbs down to a comment that merely points out the obvious that a expert like Dr. Fauci knows more about epidemiology, virology, and immunology than a politician is beyond me. I hope you handle your finances less emotionally than you manage RV discussions.
  • ke
    karl e.
    8 May 2020 @ 15:38
    Should RV steer clear of any guests who express personal/political comments. That would mean no Steve Bannon interview. I am no Bannon or Trump fan but I learned so much from that interview not the least of which was that I actually shared a few of his, and Trumps, Republican platform beliefs. What a shock that was to me and what a loss it would have been for me to disregard the interview. There is a need for us all to stop acting so "fragile".
    • JS
      Johannes S.
      17 May 2020 @ 20:40
      THIS! I enjoyed the Steve Bannon interview as much as I did enjoy Dr. Grayson's. And everyone who is really interested in the world should welcome guests from different sides of the spectrum and see what they can learn.
  • BP
    Byron P.
    15 May 2020 @ 12:13
    This is honestly really disappointing that Realvision selected this fraud of a host to speak. Her material is straight out of the textbook of every corrupt Democrat in this fallen nation. She sounds like a pathetic CNN reporter who simply takes the opposite side of Trump. And how can you possibly deny the beneficial effects of hydroxychloroquine by now!!!? Realvision, perhaps you should interview Greta Thunberg next. I won't be renewing my subscription this year.
    • JS
      Johannes S.
      17 May 2020 @ 20:32
      Really not sure what you're talking about. Dr. Grayson is a recognized expert in viral deseases and earned her spores during the Ebola pandemic. I haven't found anything in this interview that was factually questionable. Yes , she has a clear political view (like many RV guests) and that is her right. If a guest expressing a political view that contradicts your own triggers you to cancel your RV subscription then you're probably better served to stay in your own filter bubble. I for one welcome hearing views from across the entire spectrum, and e.g. enjoyed last year's interview with Steve Bannon as much as I enjoyed this one.
  • BP
    Byron P.
    15 May 2020 @ 12:00
    A medical doctor, politician, and democrat when the current president is a republican in an election year. Come on, we are not all fools.
  • DS
    David S.
    7 May 2020 @ 16:39
    Covid19 pretty much follow the script for systemic inflammatory response syndrome (SIRS), sepsis and multi organ dysfunction where swelling and hyperactive blood clotting response play havoc on every single system in the Democrat, Republican or otherwise affiliated body. True, these syndromes also result from infections such as influenza and probably most commonly from untreated urinary tract infections. Although most severe case patients are older and suffer pre-existing health conditions which may or may not be lifestyle related, lots of them are young and healthy too... Many people poo poo Covid19 believing it isn't terribly different from plain old influenza. There is one interesting group of people however who universally believe otherwise: the ICU physicians, nurses and therapists actually caring for the sickest strata of Covid19 patients. Experienced long term career practitioners will tell you, Covid19 is a different animal. The take away from a Macro/Investing/Crypto Currency/Trading perspective (which is why we're all here isn't it?) is this show ain't over yet, by far. The S&P may price in an imminent V shaped recovery, Covid19 has other plans. Good luck to all. DCS
    • LS
      Lemony S.
      7 May 2020 @ 18:59
      "Lots of them are young and healthy." Stop the lies, David.
    • SM
      Stephane M.
      8 May 2020 @ 02:33
      Although most severe case patients are older and suffer pre-existing health conditions which may or may not be lifestyle related, lots of them are young and healthy too... WHERE DO YOU TAKE YOUR STATS?!?!? Where I live, it's about 12%.... it's not a lot as you said. Stop spreading YOUR fear!
    • WM
      Will M.
      14 May 2020 @ 18:04
      Sorry Stephane & Lemony, David is pointing point "general" facts and you are just as general. Yes some of the latest statistics do show Stephane that the age group between 20-30 are about 12 / 13% of the cases, with 10 - 20 well below that, however its the deaths that are critical. There are huge amounts of data around but as a example the May data from South Carolina provides: The death rate age correlation soars from 20 - 40% as you progress from age 60 (~20-25%) to age 80+ (35%). However the death rate is less than 1% for under 40s for the latest data I am seeing. Less than 5% for mid age 40-50s. The data from the CDC National Vital Statistics system is not much different. I think you were both reading something into Davids comments I doing really see. Facts Lots of them means what? The statistics suggest FEW of them under 30 get serious disease or die. I guess if you believe "Lots" are too many, then fair enough you are going to have a hard time going forward. I am in my 60s, so a high risk group, but I am healthy, wear a mask, take care when out with hand washing etc, and i am NOT afraid. I doubt David S is either and I believe he is high risk as well. He is not spreading fear folks. Take care....
  • NM
    Nikolaus M.
    6 May 2020 @ 20:48
    Real Vision, please, I don't pay you for politics but macro market insight. She's a Dr. Fauchi fan. Anyone who takes the time to look into his involvement in development of bioweapon systems over his career will understand that he is part of the problem and not the solution. Please stop with this guests who are politically motivated.
    • SM
      Stephane M.
      7 May 2020 @ 09:47
      All the PdC interviews are politically motivated. Pretty sad and sickening...
    • DT
      David T.
      13 May 2020 @ 12:28
      There was nothing political. On the contrary, you are politically motivated.
  • DT
    David T.
    13 May 2020 @ 12:22
    Great interview. It confirms the view that we are in a new normal for a long time and the old normal is really far away still. Definitely influences investment thought.
  • IO
    Indi O.
    12 May 2020 @ 01:46
    I love this inverview guest. She's so frank and forthright and clearly knows her science. Once we applauded people for speaking truth to power, but these days it's just as important (and rare) to find people who will unapologetically speak truth to ignorance. Well done. I hope you do have her back on in the Fall.
  • CM
    Charles M.
    5 May 2020 @ 06:29
    Despite her bonifides, she's obviously a flaming liberal Trump-hater--her bias is palpable. (Even intelligent people can suffer from hate amblyopia). Because of the extreme contagion the number of INFECTIONS (based upon serological testing for humeral immunity) is MUCH greater than the number of REPORTED CASES--when that data is extrapolated it indicates that the morality is LESS THAN 1 per cent--which IS on a par with influenza. Moreover, the data show that the main risk is for older people and those with pre-existing conditions, notwithstanding her emotional anecdotal citing of a 30 year old death. IT'S THE PER CENT OF DEATHS, NOT A HANDFUL OF EMOTIONAL ANECDOTES THAT WE NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO. Also, she admits that COVID is apparently not demonstrating a high proclivity for mutation; this, together with it's extremely low mortality makes a case for unlocking the areas of the country that are NOT HOT SPOTS, and allowing this highly contagious (R0 = 3) but minimally fatal virus to infect and stimulate "active" immunity during the spontaneous recovery of millions, and thus attain herd immunity SOONER (because a vaccine is no certainty by her own admission). Finally, she's obviously clueless about the MASSIVE socio-economic damage that is being inflicted. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGC5sGdz4kg&list=WL&index=20&t=667s That she esteems The WHO after what they did (lied to the world) is amazing. coda: If Trump wins in November, she may need a shrink.
    • GD
      Graham D.
      5 May 2020 @ 09:05
      An amusing typo above (morality/mortality). It's strange that opinions about a medical matter seem to split across party lines which is why it's a pity that she wasn't able to keep her politics out of it. Nevertheless her knowledge about the virus seems credible and is very sobering.
    • CP
      Carl P.
      5 May 2020 @ 12:38
      If? You mean when. Like there's an alternative. Unfortunate for choice and the illusion of representative government. Does anyone think if the market crashes to hell people will just vote for Biden, LOL.
    • JL
      James L.
      6 May 2020 @ 23:54
      Sorry pal, you've been misled. The idea that this virus is just a flu is demonstrably false. Data from New York (IFR=0.85%), Geneva (IFR=0.65%) and even the pretty shoddy and possibly biased Gangelt study (IFR=0.36%) have shown mortality rates between 10 and 85 times that of flu, dependant on the strain of flu. Where I think a lot of people get confused is that the often quoted CFR of flu is ~0.1%, but CFR and IFR are two different things. The IFR of flu is actually around a tenth of that. Around 0.01%.
    • TZ
      Tibor Z.
      12 May 2020 @ 00:03
      You just wrong about the mortality rate of a factor of 10! Influenza's mortality rate is 0,1% not 1%!
  • TZ
    Tibor Z.
    11 May 2020 @ 23:57
    Melatonin seems helpful! It is scientifically proven that helps lowering the virus count and lowers lung inflammation alongside the cytokine storm. It results in a lower death count!
  • cs
    connor s.
    11 May 2020 @ 15:11
    While very appreciative of her credentials and RV bringing her in the room, this was 90% fluff. If you looked at the transcript version of this, it shows at least 5 pages of answers between each question. An indication of too many words, not enough substance. That's the theme. Lacking clear and concise answers, repeats mainstream narratives from science community, and not a great use of head space.
  • BB
    Bob B.
    10 May 2020 @ 14:29
    Is she behind on the pathology of COVID-19? There are reports and increasingly more autopsy reports exposing the SARS-COV2 develops into more than a respiratory virus. There are reports recommending to avoid invasive intubation if at all possible due to the pathology. "Experts" need to be ahead of the public information not behind. https://whyy.org/articles/treating-blood-clots-kidney-injuries-and-other-problems-linked-to-covid-19-could-save-lives/ https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/how-does-coronavirus-kill-clinicians-trace-ferocious-rampage-through-body-brain-toes https://time.com/5827912/coronavirus-skin-rashes/ https://nypost.com/2020/04/27/coronavirus-related-inflammatory-syndrome-emerges-among-uk-children-report/
    • BB
      Bob B.
      10 May 2020 @ 19:30
      She reads minds - great :( For an expert near zero science - just rehashing on her themes. "Yes but..." defending is not research material. No expert information here. Interesting she only mentions pharmaceutical anti-virals! Follow the money. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3593258 Here is a great article from Eastern Virginia Medical School: https://www.evms.edu/media/evms_public/departments/internal_medicine/EVMS_Critical_Care_COVID-19_Protocol.pdf No mention of Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin and zinc - lots of reports that early start has better results than remdesamir and costing a couple bucks per treatment! Follow the money! There are some very interesting treatment results suggesting back to work could be achieved with lower risks.
  • TB
    Tobin B.
    10 May 2020 @ 16:52
    This was a rant a la CNN, not informative, and emotion-provoking. I watch Real Vision precisely because it hasn't presented this type of content historically. Perhaps the virus has placed limitations on the type of content that can be produced, and this kind of thing won't come across the feed again. Thanks.
  • RT
    ROBERT T.
    10 May 2020 @ 02:33
    This should have been a CNN interview....not RV. She is a mainstream media talking head. Sad.
  • MS
    Mark S.
    8 May 2020 @ 15:51
    Dear Real Vision, I believe Pedro needs to be placed in "time-out". As the interviewer, he did not manage the conversation. Whether Real Vision subscribers are for/against Trump, we are all smart enough not to drink bleach. Pedro should have interrupted and reminded the doctor she isn't on cable TV and that RV viewers are keenly interested in her insights of the virus.
    • JT
      Jack T.
      9 May 2020 @ 11:33
      Totally disagree. Pedro does a fine job.
  • DB
    Doug B.
    7 May 2020 @ 10:19
    OK RV, I hope you've read the comments. The message is clear: don't ever allow a guest to show her disapproval from Trump. I'll say all manner of really nasty things about you if you do.
    • ML
      Mark L.
      7 May 2020 @ 21:41
      She might have been more objective by mentioning the large number of deaths in New York nursing homes, encouraging comments to visit Chinatowns in New York and San Fran in March to counter "racism", etc. Plenty of bad decisions to go around so blaming it all on one man doesn't seem like "expert level" thinking.
    • JT
      Jack T.
      9 May 2020 @ 11:22
      Pretty pathetic IMO
  • JT
    Jack T.
    9 May 2020 @ 11:17
    All the silly people crying about this interview being too political... She's an actual expert in this field. WTF. Excellent guest. Pedro does a fine job. Thanks too both of you.
  • dm
    dude m.
    9 May 2020 @ 01:11
    I thought this interview was awesome. But what surprised me was the reactions from the viewers. The Comments were wildly varied; from the worst.... to the best interviews they've seen on RT. And, thinking about that....that's why I subscribed to RV. I firmly believe that RT delivered value here. Thank you RV for sourcing and delivering content that makes us think, reflect, comment and hopefully, take action in our real lives. And thank you RT viewers for confirming that you make RT the better media choice.
  • JT
    John T.
    8 May 2020 @ 21:18
    Too political. I like RV because they mostly leave politics out of the conversation. Her language is trying to provoke an emotional response. If i want that i can watch mainstream media.
  • AS
    Armando S.
    8 May 2020 @ 07:35
    One of the worst interview I have seen in RV. Politically bias, I had the impression of watching political propaganda instead of informational material
  • ps
    philip s.
    8 May 2020 @ 00:22
    Sorry to say, but I had to turn this one off well before it was over.
  • MH
    Michael H.
    7 May 2020 @ 21:28
    Politically tainted BS. Waste of time and degrades Real Vision.
  • PD
    Peter D.
    6 May 2020 @ 21:11
    Dr. Greyson is the prototype of the "agreeable expert" that physicist Eric Weinstein (managing director of Thiel Capital) likely was thinking about when he coined the term the "Intellectual Dark Web." She is beyond right or wrong. She is compromised and would not even be able to come up with a conceptual framework to understand how that could happen. The video is a must watch: https://youtu.be/TKeMIWVOnbo?list=PLW0KoKVR_r1c42kYJytaVBdNxyC0yYr8F Pedro: if you want to do some real journalism, get that guy on.
    • JL
      James L.
      6 May 2020 @ 23:58
      The irony of a group of people creating an echo chamber in opposition to an echo chamber.
    • LS
      Lemony S.
      7 May 2020 @ 19:06
      Yes, cue the Upton Sinclair quote.
  • MB
    Mike B.
    7 May 2020 @ 00:49
    This is all starting to make sense to me now. The "Essential- $239" service gets the lousy interviews and if you want the better content, you have to upgrade to "Plus-$599" or "Pro-$3499". Very clever RV.
    • LS
      Lemony S.
      7 May 2020 @ 19:05
      I don't have problem with this in general, BUT ... new subscribers for 2020 had the rug pulled from under them, literally 2 months in they all of a sudden paywalled an existing agreement. Embarrassing. Sad that so many have forgotten about this, too.
  • MG
    Mark G.
    7 May 2020 @ 05:01
    I'm an Australian and I can vouch for Dr Grayson's assessment of our situation here. We have had no new cases of infection in my state for 15 days now. We were in heavy lockdown and now after 2 weeks of no new cases are starting to open up again.
    • LS
      Lemony S.
      7 May 2020 @ 19:03
      The area under the curve never changes. Pay me now, or pay me later. And lose your freedom while you're at it, peon.
  • JH
    Joel H.
    7 May 2020 @ 05:41
    If we end the lockdown, a million people die. If we don't end the lockdown a million will die. Funny thing, if people don't get food, they die. Each side, the doctors and the economists, neither side recognize how bad it is either way.
    • LS
      Lemony S.
      7 May 2020 @ 19:03
      Even if you were right, we lose much more (freedom, sanity, etc) by not ending the lockdown. Thanks for making our point again.
  • JH
    Joel H.
    7 May 2020 @ 05:44
    Have Chris Martenson from Peak Prosperity on.
    • LS
      Lemony S.
      7 May 2020 @ 19:00
      Why so we can hear more hysterics? Why not have John Ioannides on, or David Katz, or thousands of others that know the whole thing is drastic overreaction, but something that should be handled wisely, still.
  • WM
    Will M.
    7 May 2020 @ 17:31
    This is probably the worst interview I have seen on RVT since it started years. I think in the current environment this video was a huge mistake. I do NOT disagree with much of what the doctor said, it was the way she said it and Pedro came across as egging her on in a couple of areas. I strong believe RVT should steer away from these political discussion lest the comments start to become like the general media. A lot of Pedro's interviews are getting significant negative votes from the RV crowd, but I feel Pedro did not do a good job on this one for sure. Just my 5 cents worth.
    • WM
      Will M.
      7 May 2020 @ 18:38
      I also think Chris Martenson would be a better guest to address the failures in a non political manner. ALL major administrations made significant errors here.......
  • co
    carlos o.
    6 May 2020 @ 17:37
    This is a financial website, but i just could not finish the video. Its ok if she has a bias... but in here at RV I would expect a more detached and objective analysis of the facts. In here we all know that the lock downs could be worse than the virus itself, we see the geopolitical aspects of the pandemic, the corporate interests, etc. Wasn't the Trump administration heavily criticized for the travel ban on China and the flights cancellation from Europe? Wasn't the media saying for months that this is just the flu? Wasn't the WHO pushing Chinese fake news for two months? hell they didn't even wanted to call this a pandemic for the longest of times. This is a fast moving situation and the government officials act on the information they have from "reputable" channels... and have to balance the health problems with the economic implications. This so called expert does a poor job at both. It sounds more like a rant, it would be better to have someone like Chris Martenson from peakprosperity that has followed the pandemic from the very beginning.
    • JM
      John M.
      7 May 2020 @ 05:00
      Chris Martenson has done a good job with his daily videos, fact based & non partisan
    • WM
      Will M.
      7 May 2020 @ 18:34
      100% agree! have been watch Chris and Dr John Campbell on youtube and both are excellent and non political. (Chris is beginning to raise deeper questions now that might label him as a conspiracy theorist with some now though)
  • JA
    Jeff A.
    6 May 2020 @ 15:03
    As a Physician, she lost all credibility when she stated that face masks don‘t help you from contracting coronavirus. Same ridiculous thing the CDC said for a while. This is infection control 101 for respiratory illnesses. Did she wear a face mask In medical school when she walked into the TB patient’s room? Of course she did. We have bureaucrats and PHD’s running our health care system instead of real, practicing Physicians.
    • WM
      Will M.
      7 May 2020 @ 18:31
      Absolutely agree. I am with many others who say the masks strongly assist in stopping you passing on the virus if you are infected. I agree a paper mask probably doesn't help a lot protecting me from the virus but I wear a N100 respirator nose/mouth mask and tight fitting wrap around clear glasses and am confident they REDUCE my chances of getting inflected / REDUCE the viral load. I also wash hands frequently and dont touch my frigging face when out side with the public.
  • Am
    Alex m.
    6 May 2020 @ 12:17
    I think Neil Ferguson's 2MM deaths should be taken as seriously as his social distancing efforts....
    • WM
      Will M.
      7 May 2020 @ 18:26
      Super point Alex. Some of the advisors demonstrate time and again to not do what they tell you to do, including that Scottish Medical adviser who waltzed off to her holiday home despite telling the public to stay locked down. This is why I so distrust the advisors. Ferguson also has some connections and background that make his whole theory questionable, but I won't mention them lest I be accused of being a conspiracy believer.....
  • LS
    Lemony S.
    6 May 2020 @ 02:35
    Pedro, first off, I've been critical of some of your interviews but you did a good job here. Dr. Grayson made known just how bombastic and political she is without enough prompting but you asked her appropriate questions. A few things, and if you notice you'll see this over and over again with the so-called experts who can't seem to understand (I wonder why) the very basics or implications of even what they are saying. At 16:00 she says most people have no symptoms. That is the truth about this virus, 99% don't have symptoms. You can end the discussion right there if you want, truly. But let's go further. "I think we should have the billionaires go out there on the front lines." Umm, Dr. Grayson, if you haven't been paying attention, we all want to go outside and have a normal life and WE AREN'T worried at all about it. Your political operatives are doing their best to stop this from happening. We have flattened the curve. There is no hospital stress (USS Comfort? Chicago? California? Bueller?) We don't need time, 99% of us don't have any problems with this! Herd immunity by keeping school children and youth, the LEAST susceptible to this virus (saying a lot) is co-opted, and for more political reasons. Every study has shown the IFR of this is equal to the seasonal flu, she produces no evidence that is not, the R3 number she gives is an outright lie, only in the worst NYC situation is that even remotely possible and the rest of the country is not anywhere near that nor will it ever be for thousands of reasons --- and lastly, the vaccine. Vaccines are a joke for everyone not dramatically susceptible to this due to age and bad health issues. It's at best 50-60% effective EVERY year, it actually doesn't even matter, no not one bit, if you get the vaccine, since it's so ineffective anyway. I highly recommend anyone who is healthy not bothering, and yes, I'm a doctor. But Ms. Grayson and Fauci and Birx will not have as deep of pockets if you don't, so there's that ...
    • MB
      Mike B.
      6 May 2020 @ 09:48
      Good points but this was a terrible interview.
    • LS
      Lemony S.
      6 May 2020 @ 15:54
      Mike, it could have been much worse, what's Pedro got to work with here anyway?
    • WM
      Will M.
      7 May 2020 @ 18:21
      For me its a case of looking at all of Pedro's videos. I think he has been unlucky with the type of folks he is interviewing and they are more divisive than most as far as the RV comment section and thumb up/down are concerned.
  • PC
    Peter C.
    6 May 2020 @ 00:58
    Kudo's for bring this straight shooting doc on. After all, its mostly dependent on the healthcare outcomes & not us financial types. Bring her back in a month for follow up :)
    • WM
      Will M.
      7 May 2020 @ 18:18
      Please do not bring her back lest this forum disintegrate further!
  • MR
    Maxim R.
    5 May 2020 @ 21:48
    She is a clown, most of virologists and some doctors know that whole pandemic is fake
    • CW
      Corey W.
      6 May 2020 @ 00:16
      You're probably a Holocaust denier as well...
    • PB
      PHILLIP B.
      6 May 2020 @ 01:17
      Please save this kind of post you just made for ZH. Please keep these forums clean of such attacks on the character of RV guests.
    • MR
      Maxim R.
      7 May 2020 @ 01:40
      Sorry I didn't meant attack RV guest, I was too direct voicing my opinion, sorry for that Dr Dena. Im trying to say for people with 5 second google search you can find lots of doctors and virologists who explain how the whole thing was set up from day 1. Do you home work and don't just buy mainstream view on this subject(like most of other ideas from mainstream), I thought whole RV thing was about deep search and constant impovment in finance space.
    • WM
      Will M.
      7 May 2020 @ 18:14
      Yes Maxim, you appear to have quickly recognized that your first comment was too emotional......
  • AA
    Aymman A.
    5 May 2020 @ 21:43
    Brilliant doctor. I am a physician myself. What she said was right. I am sad to see that almost half of Real Vision subscribers gave her a thumbs down, Why? I really would like someone who gave her a thumbs down to explain the logical inconsistency in her argument. She obvious revealed her left leaning political opinions. But why should that matter? Does science change? Are we judging everything through a political lens? In markets (global macro is my obsession) I seek the opinion of people who disagree with me. I am doing the same here. Will someone who gave her a thumbs down explain why they think she is wrong? Thx.
    • PD
      Peter D.
      5 May 2020 @ 21:54
      It's not necessarily that Ms. Grayson is wrong. (See my post below). Ms. Grayson is Democratic Party operative and a paid pharmaceutical industry lobbyist. The issue relates to her incentives. Real Vision viewers know what incentives do economists' forecasts. Yet our economists are among the best trained of any professionals in the world. We assume that medical professionals incentives are different. Are they. You're a doctor. You tell us.
    • AA
      Aymman A.
      5 May 2020 @ 22:31
      Please read my answer to a post by JD below. It gives some medical specifics.
    • LT
      Lori T.
      6 May 2020 @ 00:04
      This doctor diminishes her own credibility when she delivers what may be good information with her political bias. I'm so tired of having to weed through politics to learn the truth. So a thumbs down for me.
    • PD
      Pedro D. | Contributor
      6 May 2020 @ 00:16
      Thanks for your comments, and thanks for watching.
    • AR
      Anthony R.
      6 May 2020 @ 04:15
      Aymman - sorry if we don't just all fall all over ourselves in the presence of 'science'. The fact is that anyone paying good money for this site is well enough read and experienced know that perfectly good and legit data on any topic can be cherry picked and manipulated to suit an agenda. 'Science' has been as heavily politicized as anything else. Heck, we even got to hear from the buffoons running Seattle's schools that 'Math' is 'Racist' last year. Go figure. So any reasonable person should take any 'expert's' view with a grain of salt until those views can be corroborated across many sources and 'experts'..... Sorry - a lot of scientist have debased their profession in exchange for employment, via grants, funding the research outcomes those funding them want to see. That's our lived collective experience, whether in pharma, climate or a whole host of other issues. Her decision to show her political bias only adds to the problem..
    • WM
      Will M.
      7 May 2020 @ 18:12
      I gave the interview a thumbs down, not because a disagreed with most of what the Dr said, but because I just thought it was said in an overly political manner ( i have down voted only about 12 RVT videos in 4 or more years, 3 of them just happen to be Pedro's efforts). I don't dispute the value of the topic, just the heavy political drift ( I got a little worried with Bannon and Farage but didn't down vote those). I also understand the challenge of this virus, which is definitely NOT the flu, but the impact of the lock down is going to potentially destroy the economy and I am of a view that society can only fail if we expend huge effort to save every single person at any cost. By the way I am in my mid 60s (luckily no co-mobidities) and take it upon my self to "stay safe", mask, wrap run eye glasses, hand washing, careful distancing from those not practicing care themselves. Its my kids I am worried about as I watch their future evaporate. This could all have been so different starting from the appalling WHO decision to not label this a pandemic once is breached China and riding through the late decisions by most governments to impose travel lockdowns. History will judge many leaders and biased media as delinquent.
  • DS
    David S.
    5 May 2020 @ 21:41
    It is apparent from the political comments that the US will have a most difficult time dealing with the pandemic. Most people just want the left or right non-medical people to be correct. I do not listen to my doctor on political issues, I certainly do not listen to a lot of entertainment folks on “news” TV to make medical decisions. Democracies die from neglect. Representative democracies also die from neglect. Where is the ventilator? DLS
    • WM
      Will M.
      7 May 2020 @ 18:00
      Good comment David. As an ex-Brit who came to the US in 88 I have watched the deterioration in public discourse dramatically increase over the last 20+ years. I have to fight constantly to stay largely center on politics but the current crop of right and left politicians and the biased media on both sides is pointing to the end of this Republic......
  • TH
    Truman H.
    5 May 2020 @ 17:36
    This video made me think of the quote from Fitzgerald, "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function." I used to follow the good Dr on Twitter, but her constant political commentary was more than I wanted to deal with. On the other hand, she clearly knows what she's talking about with regard to medical matters, and I learned some helpful information from the video.
    • DS
      David S.
      5 May 2020 @ 21:29
      Well said. DLS
    • WM
      Will M.
      7 May 2020 @ 17:46
      One of the best comments on here Truman. I down voted this video because is was so blatantly political, not because I didn't believe anything she was saying; I just want desperately to see RVT stay non political and fully focused on finance/ macro economics etc. and avoid this comment section which is normally extremely useful and full of quality comment and help for fellow RVers become a political bullshit argument board.
  • NA
    N A.
    5 May 2020 @ 17:09
    If you want to listen to non political,but to science go to Professor Knut Wittkowski https://youtu.be/k0Q4naYOYDw
    • WM
      Will M.
      7 May 2020 @ 17:42
      Yes he is a character and just as qualified as the RV guest on this video.
  • SM
    Stephane M.
    5 May 2020 @ 09:25
    I don't understand why she doesn't say that it's a deadly virus for older people and people with other conditions... Sorry, but it's not because she's a doctor that she doesn't have a political agenda! Whar about the comparaison with the flu?? It kills a WIDER range of people but we don't lockdown the world for it...
    • NC
      N C.
      5 May 2020 @ 09:39
      For crying out loud, this is not the flu nor can it be compared to the flu in any way, shape, or form. This comment gives me pause in my thinking that RV viewers are more sophisticated than the general public. https://imageproxy.themaven.net/https%3A%2F%2Fimages.saymedia-content.com%2F.image%2FMTcyMDIyNzk2NzkxMDYzNjg3%2Fcovid-19-new-deaths-weekly-2020-04-21.jpg?w=1576&q=20&h=939&auto=enhanced&fit=crop&crop=focalpoint&fp-x=0.5&fp-y=0.5&fp-z=1&fp-debug=false https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/comparing-covid-19-deaths-to-flu-deaths-is-like-comparing-apples-to-oranges/
    • SM
      Stephane M.
      5 May 2020 @ 09:57
      To N.C.: How come I can't compare it to the flu?? When you buy a car, don't you compare it with others before buying it ?!?!!? Stop frightening people. Healthy people won't dye of the covid. Here 88% of people dying of it are over 75. FACT https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/disease/fraud-in-new-york-overstating-covid-deaths-to-get-more-money/
    • MH
      Maans H.
      5 May 2020 @ 10:32
      Healthy people DO DIE from covid. Stop spreading false information. Naturally the old are more vulnerable and the majority of deaths are older people. That does not mean that this is anything like the flu. And you keeping insisting it is just shows how incredibly ignorant you are. The hospitals are overwhelmed in most of Europe and for example in Italy over 100 doctors have died. Does that happen with the flu? No. Most people getting COVID will be completely fine. That does not change the fact that it is much worse than the flu. I kind of wish people like you would be forced to work in hospitals taking care of Covid patients.
    • KV
      Keld V.
      5 May 2020 @ 10:46
      Stephane, come on. Martin Armstrong is hardly a reliable source of information.
    • SM
      Stephane M.
      5 May 2020 @ 11:06
      You're right Maans H., healthy people do die from covid... 0,0004% of the population and I feel sorry for them. Stop spreading your fear. Because of this fear, I can't take an appointment with my osteopath after a 10 foot fall directly on my shoulder... I guess I'll have to go to the hospital and take the pulse of the covid fear in my city!! Peace man;-)
    • DW
      Daniel W.
      5 May 2020 @ 12:06
      For germany, average of 10.000 death's per annum for the seasonal flu, ranging from almost zero in 2005/2006 to 25.000 in 1995/1996. Currently 6.993 death from COVID19. To be true to the facts, COVID19 impact on death's in germany is UNTIL NOW below the average seasonal flu.
    • KO
      Kelly O.
      5 May 2020 @ 20:14
      I don't see why we can't compare this to the flu, or perhaps pneumonia? BUT, let's compare apples-to-apples (i.e. mortality of each, and not "cases of COVID" compared to deaths from the flu/pneumonia). Why is the media so focused on the "cases" of COVID? Why don't we hear about the 30,000,000 "symptomatic" cases of seasonal flu every year? We might occasionally hear about the 90,000 flu deaths during a "particularly bad year" and that's about it, but it certainly doesn't shut the economy down. (All these stats can be found on the CDC website by the way). Things simply don't add up with this whole "pandemic"!
    • WM
      Will M.
      7 May 2020 @ 17:21
      Keld V. Not sure why Martin Armstrong isn't as good as a source as anyone else on this topic. He has a point of view, and I am swayed by most of it. Isolation of the older and folks with co-mormidities PLUS wearing of masks could have reduced this threat and avoided trillions in expenditures.
  • Md
    Mike d.
    7 May 2020 @ 15:43
    Tedious.
  • GP
    Greg P.
    7 May 2020 @ 15:30
    Outstanding interview and very valuable for me.
  • DJ
    David J.
    7 May 2020 @ 11:59
    I've read the comments, including my own not very insightful one. Whether you agree with her or not, she was a good guest. As the RV audience, myself included, we should be more gracious or people will not want to bother. Someone compared a lot of the comments to ZeroHedge. As much fun as it is to read ZH - it ain't RealVision.
  • SM
    Stephane M.
    7 May 2020 @ 09:40
    Fear is more powerful than truth...
  • SK
    Sonja K.
    7 May 2020 @ 04:55
    Sorry but until the US recognizes that it possess 3rd world problems, it will never adequately deal with this or any other pandemic. What do I mean? Hot spots (areas surrounding Detroit, New Orleans, etc.) consistently have a common theme, no running water. Basic hygiene like frequent hand-washing is not plausible if there is no running water in the home. Yet millions in the US are without this basic necessity. Wake up US. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/may/01/water-shutoffs-us-coronavirus-utilities-economy
  • ft
    fred t.
    7 May 2020 @ 02:21
    Sorry but this video does not educate viewer. She is regurgitating the same thing MSM is telling. See here for some truth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4x0IsdOkU4
  • NS
    Nico S.
    7 May 2020 @ 01:20
    Not sure I agree that it will come back worse than the first wave. That means that we as humans can’t learn, can’t adjust, can’t listen to adjust our habits. I disagree. Things are different than the Spanish flu. We have much better communication and are more fluid. Wholeheartedly disagree.
  • SR
    Shawn R.
    6 May 2020 @ 20:34
    I really hope RV doesn’t turn into a political stream, otherwise I’m taking my rather pricey Pro membership and exiting. Pleas get back to the really awesome videos you make. I recall what I call your golden age when I listening to you back in Jan and early Fed, that was some solid macros, and what got me out ahead of the sell off. I’m not here for politics, I’m sickened by our discourse today...
    • MB
      Mike B.
      7 May 2020 @ 00:55
      I did not realize the Pro version were also given the lousy content as well. I thought that was reserved for the low end "essential" service. I can get that watching CNN.
  • DY
    Damian Y.
    6 May 2020 @ 08:14
    Great interview and good to hear a real expert on virology for once. Yes let's listen to the doctors who actually know what they are talking about with regards to opening up. Everyone you speak to now is an expert on virology and you'll find they don't even have a basic science degree on the subject, the fact is they don't really know what they are talking about. It was interesting Raoul Pal who is now an expert on the virus just wrote an article in zero hedge and was saying "The first step is to end the lockdown and let businesses reopen and people go back to work". Why aren't the people who have spent their lives studying virology not saying that? We need to get business open again but the most important thing is life is ones health. If you've ever lived with a life threatening illness then you would now that the only thing that is important to you is getting healthy again, money means nothing to you when you're really sick.
    • TM
      The-First-James M.
      7 May 2020 @ 00:50
      On a personal level, true. On a societal level, debateable. Closing schools and locking down entire economies strain the social fabric and cause health and emotional issues of their own. If you want to tear our current Society apart, keep the lockdowns in place for another 6 months. Deaths from suicide and domestic abuse would likely end uo outweighing those caused by COVID. Yeah, this is subjective. However, try telling somebody whose Business or job is being destroyed by Lockdown that their health is more important and their sacrifice a worthwhile tradeoff.
  • AA
    Aaron A.
    6 May 2020 @ 20:33
    Scare tactics, blame Trump, Venezuela doing a good job, etc, etc....this is a joke.
    • TM
      The-First-James M.
      7 May 2020 @ 00:42
      Trump is a joke, and I say this as a Brit who was cautiously optimistic when he was elected in 2016. The only bigger joke is running a Candidate like Biden against him. The only kudos I give Trump is placing CCP-ruled China on the table as a growing strategic threat.
  • RF
    Rick F.
    6 May 2020 @ 21:15
    Hate the politics on this interview. At a minimum that should have been disclosed as it's pertinent to the discussion. Lots of players with agendas on all sides.
    • TM
      The-First-James M.
      7 May 2020 @ 00:39
      It was - at almost the very beginning.
  • MD
    Mike D.
    5 May 2020 @ 15:37
    Before watching this interview I read through the comment stream, noting strong emotions expressed by some. This led me to think back to two concepts which have affected the way I consume other people's views. The first was expressed in Roger McNamee's book Zuck'd, in which he describes how social media creates 'filter bias' by showing the reader more of the type of content they choose to consume, thereby creating a bubble. This may evolve into a 'preference bias', where the person self censors information to consume only the sort they agree with. I try hard to control such bias in my own thinking by explicitly seeking out and valuing views which do not align with my own. The second is the 'silent witness' bias, as described in Nasim Taleb's book Fooled By Randomness. The thought is that the human mind isn't tuned to fully appreciate prevention versus acts of heroism after an event. An intelligence analyst who hypothetically could have prevented a terrorist attack, for example, would likely be forgotten by history. In that context, - Thank you Pedro for conducting a good interview. I look to the interviewer to make the subject feel comfortable, ask provocative questions, listen without interrupting, and certainly avoid censoring their subject's views. You did this well. - I hear and respect those in the comment stream who assert that Covid-19 is no worse than the flu, and therefore no lock downs are justifiable. I have just one question, which no one has been able to answer to my satisfaction yet. Why would China's leaders, who arguably value economic growth, stability, and political dominance over all else, shut down large swaths of their economy for a virus no more harmful than the common flu? To me this is strong evidence that Covid-19 is serious, and I haven't heard a serious rebuttal yet. - Taking into account, then, that Covid-19 is actually a serious public health issue, the central point is that there is no good answer here. Allowing the virus to spread unchecked may/would result in a meaningful public health crisis. Locking down the country implies severe economic and civil liberty ramifications. Neither approach is without pain, so the binary approach advocated by some on either side of the argument seems fatuous. - I appreciate that Dr. Grayson has strong views about the effectiveness of our political leadership as well as about the virus. I feel that it's important to listen carefully to people with strong views, especially when they don't match my own. For example I also value Kyle Bass, whose political views are in some ways opposite to Dr. Grayson's. Nice job. Once I think beyond a surface level, I see the value in this interview.
    • JL
      James L.
      6 May 2020 @ 22:53
      The sentiment from growing parts of the American right (the same sentiment hardly exists outside Brazil and USA) that this virus is just a flu is demonstrably false. Data from New York (IFR=0.85%), Geneva (IFR=0.65%) and even the pretty shoddy and possibly biased Gangelt study (IFR=0.36%) have shown mortality rates between 10 and 85 times that of flu, dependant on the strain of flu. Where I think a lot of people get confused is that the often quoted CFR of flu is ~0.1%, but CFR and IFR are two different things. I've even seen "should know better" people like Mike Green state this on twitter, ignorant to the fact they're comparing apples and pineapples.
  • CB
    Christopher B.
    6 May 2020 @ 22:19
    Sucks
  • WP
    William P.
    6 May 2020 @ 20:56
    I am sure a very intelligent Dr. but generally lacking in wisdom. Given the size and complexity of our economy, just shutting everything down immediately is unrealistic. This is not a partisan issue. The political grandstanding was highly disappointing and unfortunately diminished credibility.
  • DR
    Daniel R.
    5 May 2020 @ 22:07
    Simply the worst ever video on real vision. Score one for diversity of opinion but you lost me on this one. I worked in healthcare for over a decade. No, doctors are not all experts.
    • SR
      Shawn R.
      6 May 2020 @ 20:30
      Experts are experts in their art only. It’s the job of the leaders to assemble the experts and make multi-dimensional decisions. When I hear things like “Science First during a pandemic”, that is nothing but worshipping at the alter of the science priest class. The good Dr. here is an expert, her medical views are valid, but are they/we looking at the long term? Ie, businesses close, employment spikes, families disintegrate, suicides, drugs, etc. It’s all to easy for this political and white collar class to preach the need for a lock down while they VPN to work and zoom call. What about the salon owner? The construction worker? The retail associate? They were forced to not work. I don’t fault these people opening their businesses in defiance of the “orders” from stare governors. If I had to choose between operating my business or losing house, food, and so forth it’s an easy choice. Shameful the arrogance in display of the white collar class.
  • SR
    Shawn R.
    6 May 2020 @ 20:03
    I come here for ideas not politics. If I want to engage in the trench warfare of today’s slug fest politics, I’d go to the networks. There are ways to interview these experts and reduce the bias. This video was of putting, didn’t complete. Let’s get back to the macro here, and leave politics out.
  • BB
    Bojo B.
    6 May 2020 @ 19:35
    It is a pandemic of fear, first and foremost.. right after the terrorists, the Russians, Saddam, one fvcking scam after another.... The guys running the system are either idiotic or evil geniuses installing a global dictatorship by killing the middle class and enslaving the people.
  • DJ
    David J.
    6 May 2020 @ 19:15
    How do such intelligent people cut loose with something so stupid as "It's the billionaires who want everybody to go back to work" before it's safe. I believe the billionaires can stay at home forever - why would they be in a hurry to go back and get sick? - while the worker bees with kids and no savings have no choice. She knows that. Forgive me.
  • CI
    Chayot I.
    6 May 2020 @ 06:00
    Really curious as to why aren’t more people die of COVID-19 in India? This is in relation to the doctor’s comment on how she is afraid for the worst for people in South America and Africa for the lack of sophisticated medical infrastructure and even lack of basic hygiene infrastructure like access to clean water and sanitation. Genuinely curious.
    • PD
      Pedro D. | Contributor
      6 May 2020 @ 06:16
      Experts "credit the strict, six-week lockdown with giving India time to prepare hospitals, equipment and personnel and to ramp up testing, but they still wonder if it will be enough to avert catastrophe in a country with limited medical care and vast poor among its 1.3 billion people." https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/asia-today-indias-cases-spike-chennai-market-cluster-70526187
    • PB
      Paul B.
      6 May 2020 @ 11:54
      Take a look at every shithole and the Deaths are very low..Look at the Stats on Ghana....The only thing all these shitholes have in common are 1. The far majority of the population take very little of Big Pharma Drugs. 2. They have very sturdy and robust immune systems...Shitholes tend to kill off the weak naturally without this Flu Virus. Seems pretty bloody simple to me, and this crackpot Medico is just like the rest of them...NFI!
    • EC
      Emily C.
      6 May 2020 @ 18:54
      This started as a wealthy traveler disease. It hit places fastest where people travel internationally the most. And India doesn’t even give you a cause of death. My friend’s uncle died when he was 40 and no cause of death was even determined. Lack of testing and reporting is likely the issue and people are too early.
  • MF
    Michael F.
    6 May 2020 @ 18:54
    She might be brilliant and have some good stuff to share. I couldn't get to it due to the evident nature of her political leanings...thanks you for your time.
  • LK
    Lauri K.
    6 May 2020 @ 18:39
    I'm sorry, but couldn't get through this. I agree she knows the epidemiology and has some good information, but it's covered in too much political vitriol. There are plenty of same level epidemiological experts I can go listen to without a political bias. That's exactly what I'm going to do.
  • mw
    michael w.
    6 May 2020 @ 18:37
    People dumb enough to assume he wants them to inject disinfectant were doomed before the virus was ever heard of.
  • JD
    J D.
    5 May 2020 @ 21:23
    "The beliefs which we have most warrant for have no safeguard to rest on, but a standing invitation to the whole world to prove them unfounded." - J.S. Mill, On Liberty I understand and appreciate the importance of presenting opposing viewpoints. While having our beliefs challenged isn't easy, testing them is essential for us to find the truth. When wrong, we are given the opportunity to refine those beliefs. And when right, our beliefs are strengthened as well as our confidence in them. However, please do more to respectfully challenge the comments and assumptions of the guests. Sometimes this guest made statements or criticisms of others and their positions without providing any support for her comments. Additionally, I believe that I saw a couple of questions related to this, but please include more that represent other sides' challenges of the guest's positions. Examples for this interview might have been: - The guest supports the lock-downs, so "What authority do the governments (federal, state, and local) have to do what they are doing?" Maybe some state constitutions provide governors with this power, but what authority does the federal government have to do it? - "What cost/benefit analysis have you done to show that the lock-downs are the best option? Considering reports of increases in mental health issues, suicides, and domestic violence along with possible declines in physical and economic health to people in general, how do we know that this 'cure' is not worse than the virus?" - The guest says that the point of the lock-downs is to gain time. She says that we may never get a vaccine. "How long should the lock-down be in place? Given the problems that the lock-down is creating as well as the lack of savings in this country, how do we all last until then?" - The assumption seems to be that either there is a total lock-down imposed by governments or everything is open like before the virus. Therefore, "Why does lifting the governments' lock-downs have to equate to things going back to the way things were before? Why can't people make their own choices about how to deal with the virus and what risks they are comfortable taking? Some people and businesses would stay inside or closed while others would go outside or open up. Why can't they take responsibility for their own actions, do their own cost/benefit analysis, and make that decision on their own?" For the viewers to get more from this, please let us see the positions of the different sides getting tested. As it was, I don't feel that we are any better off after watching it. For those who support her position, they leave feeling good because their side was presented in a good light. For those who disagree, they just get upset because she was able to "attack" their position and values without any resistance. And while she did present a few facts, they weren't anything that I hadn't already heard before.
    • AA
      Aymman A.
      5 May 2020 @ 22:25
      OK I will answer some of your questions. I am a doctor so I am qualified to speak. Stay at home orders:I don’t know about government authority. Not qualified to answer that. But stay at home orders DO buy time. Time for what? Time for treatments etc to develop. Some things in the pipeline. BARDA (Biomedical Advanced Research Development Agency). Is funding a 20 million dollar study on Famotidine. The beauty of this drug is that it can be taken orally. Yes I know, the study is on IV Famotidine, but the drug can be taken orally. It has a 45% bioavailability so we can extrapolate from the IV dose and come up with an oral dose. Would it not be a just great if there was an oral pill that we could give to patients with mild symptoms that would stop the virus? But we have to wait for the RCT to be completed. This is why Remdesivir is not very helpful. It can only be given IV. Opening will be much safer once we have an oral pill. Next every one is gloomy about vaccines. I get it. We are never sure if vaccines will work. BUT passive immunity with monoclonal antibodies will be just as big a game changer. This technology is not tentative. We WILL have this . We can use this on all high risk occupations. Yes we can give it to meat plant workers and open the meat supply. I am being selfish. They should also be given first to health care workers so hospitals can open. These are just 2 examples of is down the pipeline. It is not stay at home for ever or let’s party. At our hospital we still do NOT have testing. How can you open and not be sure that the staff will will not kill the patient by just talking. There is a very high carrier rate among health care workers. But we are not testing them. We are violating the first Part of the Hippocratic Oath —- Do no harm. Re opening needs to follow science. It needs to follow performance metrics, not some calendar date. Perform faster then reopen faster. All business or at least at our hospital, they keep talking about KPI (Key Performance Indicators). There are KPIs for reopening from a pandemic. If we have achieved these KPIs should we just ignore them?
    • JM
      John M.
      6 May 2020 @ 01:03
      So why is it that several countries not employing lockdown are achieving better results than USA, for example Taiwan (only 6 fatalities out of 24 million people - EXCELLENT!!) (and other countries).
    • LK
      Lauri K.
      6 May 2020 @ 18:18
      We already have a cure for this and any virus, which is a healthy immune system. For example, elderberry reduces the length and severity of flu symptoms to 30%. This has been proven in double-blind randomized trials and there are many more, like zinc acetate, vitamin c & d. So the focus should be on taking care of one's immune system, since not a single drug or vaccine will cure from bad habits or overall bad health. Also, the most cost effective way to reduce the spread of the virus is testing + isolating positive cases and wearing masks on public places + good hygiene. These NPR's take almost zero sacrifices in terms of economics and bring the majority of the benefits. Lockdowns are not cost effective at any point and they aren't effective reducing overall mortality in the long term, as the deaths caused by a paralyzed economy far outnumber the saved lives due to the lockdown.
  • KC
    Kirk C.
    5 May 2020 @ 22:45
    So the facts are: Fauci used US tax $$$ to fund the Wuhan bio-lab to do 'gain in function' experiments on bat corona virus to make it transmissible to humans - Real Vision should report on that! - they succeeded - Real Vision should report on that! - it got loose - Real Vision should report on that! - and Fauci is not charged with 'crimes against humanity' - WOW - Funny old world! And the story gets buried along with the millions of dead. Real Vision should report on that! Too controversial???
    • PB
      PHILLIP B.
      6 May 2020 @ 00:43
      Please keep conspiracy theory and accusations of crimes against humanity off these forums.
    • LS
      Lemony S.
      6 May 2020 @ 02:06
      Until you name 1 thing that Fauci got right, don't call others conspiracy theorists.
    • LK
      Lauri K.
      6 May 2020 @ 18:01
      Discounting the charges against humanity, all of Kirk's statements are facts or the overwhelmingly probable outcomes. Very far from conspiracy theories.
  • JC
    Joseph C.
    5 May 2020 @ 22:51
    What I find discouraging is the lack of real insight and thoughtful questions. Case in point: Dr. Grayson gives Trump an 'F' in part because of lack of testing. The far more important question is why did the US not have testing? We still do not have enough tests, why? Companies that have tests can't supply them in large enough quantities because they can't acquire enough of the reagent, why? Dr. Grayson lambasts Trump for discounting the effect initially. She suggests that if the administration had not been so incompetent, we could have shut down earlier and saved lives. The appropriate follow up question would be that the decision to lock down a State rests with the governor of that State and yet all 50 of them failed. Why did that happen? Sweden didn't lock down at all, why hasn't everyone in Sweden died? Finally, Dr. Grayson suggests that we may never get a vaccine therefore we need to acquire herd immunity. In order to acquire herd immunity, some 80% of the population needs to get infected. How do we manage to acquire herd immunity if we are constantly locked down in our homes? I am far more interested in understanding the answers to these types of questions.
    • KC
      Kirk C.
      5 May 2020 @ 23:45
      Sweden's deaths per capita from the virus are 5 times higher than their neighbors that followed the now standard rules - kinda gotta weigh that in to your calculus - kill 5 times more now or kill a few more if it comes back later - hhmmmmm - decisions - decisions
    • PD
      Pedro D. | Contributor
      6 May 2020 @ 00:14
      I asked her about the contradictions between herd immunity and social distancing (toward the end of the interview). Her answer was convincing--this one is too deadly to just let loose. Herd immunity will thus take longer.
    • LS
      Lemony S.
      6 May 2020 @ 02:05
      You can believe me or not, I'm a medical professional. This is not a deadly virus by any study or stretch of the imagination. How can it be when 99% of people confronted with it have essentially no symptoms? See my post above for exposing of these fear mongers. [Hint hint, it was already let loose. Social distancing has ZERO science behind, it especially for a respiratory illness. Why doesn't she talk about the WHO who poo-poo'd this far before any politician did?]
    • TM
      The-First-James M.
      6 May 2020 @ 02:19
      Kirk C, I think I can recall reading somewhere that Sweden has 5x the population of Norway and Finland respectively, so it's misleading just to focus on the death count numbers in this instance.
    • KD
      Kaj D.
      6 May 2020 @ 09:50
      The-First-James M, Kirk did say per capita. He is correct - the fatality rate in Sweden is very high. 10th worst in the world & 7th worst if you ignore 3 very small nations / island states in the top 10. Cheers
    • MB
      Mike B.
      6 May 2020 @ 09:58
      Sweden is the Petri dish of Europe. Depending on ones bias, it gets compared to countries with lower death rates to the exclusion of the many countries with higher death rates that are locked down. Sweden’s approach may price to have been the right approach if you consider the economic consequences. The starvation in third world countries will cost more lives than the virus ever will.
    • LK
      Lauri K.
      6 May 2020 @ 17:59
      The first james Sweden has a population around 9 million, while Norway and Finland around 5 million. Seriously there is no case for the Swedish approach.
  • SF
    Scott F.
    5 May 2020 @ 22:45
    Great medical information delivered with a clear political agenda -- not sure that's the most effective way to present this material...?
    • PB
      PHILLIP B.
      6 May 2020 @ 01:13
      I don't get it. There are guests on Real Vision, and somewhat often, who do not convey in their discussion any evidence at all of caring about the course of world affairs that is in our collective best interest. The ultra rich convey their biases and agendas in symbols and words that you perhaps do not understand. This guest is plain spoken and seeks to operate in a sphere that makes our collective lives better. Wake up. Please try to read through the messages that the ultra rich in RV segments convey before dismissing the "clear, political agenda" of this guest.
    • SF
      Scott F.
      6 May 2020 @ 16:49
      Phillip B .... Interesting perspective on my comments. I didn't say I agree or disagree with her political agenda, rather was just suggesting that I think it would've been a more effective presentation if her politics were left out of the conversation. I think this is true on both sides of the isle. Once politics are injected into the equation, a large percentage of the viewers will tune out, thus diluting the effectiveness of the presentation.
  • BC
    Burton C.
    6 May 2020 @ 16:40
    Just the way her voice inflected the name Trump, tells one all you really need to know. First and foremost she is a political operative. Knowing who her husband is tells one this. Her professional knowledge is simply going to be used to back the political agendas she has. Approached it with an open mind, but ended up being a waste of my time.
  • JM
    Jim M.
    6 May 2020 @ 11:25
    Doesn't have a medical license and has not practiced medicine in 20 years. Wife of Alan Grayson. THE Alan Grayson. A bitter partisan. RV did no vetting.
    • SF
      Scott F.
      6 May 2020 @ 16:28
      In 2016, she ran unsuccessfully for the Democratic nomination for the United States House of Representatives for Florida's 9th congressional district.[22] Since 2016, Grayson is a regular political commentator on Twitter .... Wikipedia http://denaforcongress.com
  • HP
    Henry P.
    5 May 2020 @ 15:40
    Too much animosity in her voice to believe she is speaking w/o bias. She says the virus is killing perfectly healthy people in their 30s. Where is that proof. In Texas the total as of this morning for 30-39 demographic is 9 in 1900, or less than 1/2 of 1%. She offers no solution and claims if we would have shut down economy sooner...longer we would have saved more lives. At what cost? The great depression caused much suffering and death. No solutions offered that we haven't heard elsewhere.
    • DR
      Dick R.
      5 May 2020 @ 20:29
      That's not animosity in her voice. That's frustration at the complete ignorance and incompetence of the people in an a position to do something that refuse to for crass political calculation. The purpose of preserving life is itself, not preserving the chance to make a buck, which is optional.
    • DH
      Dan H.
      6 May 2020 @ 16:17
      In Oregon 40 and under deaths are zero out of 109 deaths. 3 in the 40-50 age group, 4 were 50-60 (where I am). 100% who died with it had serious underlying health conditions
  • DB
    David B.
    6 May 2020 @ 16:06
    This lady knows here stuff. Forget her politics, who cares. Excellent interview.
  • LS
    Lemony S.
    6 May 2020 @ 15:59
    Again, see my points below --- if there are so many asymptomatic people, by definition it's not that significant of a virus in terms of lethality in particular. It's funny how this is lost on so many basic people, and why this fear mongering is more about psychology and control than actual science. 99% of people confronted with this virus do not have significant symptoms. End of story. The shutdown was a farce. India must have a better health care system than the US! Haha. The truth is, we've been keeping people alive here who are really unhealthy, for years. As they always say, something's gotta give. More loss of liberty on account of the few, who hold the rest hostage --- and the big government that eats that up all day long.
  • PB
    Paul B.
    6 May 2020 @ 11:45
    Doctors are to be trusted about as much as Lawyer..They are all in the pockets of Big Pharma, and the ONLY ones to be trusted are Surgeon's, the rest are scum!
    • BC
      Burton C.
      6 May 2020 @ 12:02
      You are right they have been indoctrinated from day one by Big Pharma. They are just mouthpieces of the drug establishment.
    • LS
      Lemony S.
      6 May 2020 @ 15:53
      To be fair, the system is the system. You would get far more balanced physician activities and recommendations if there were no medicolegal ramifications. Alas, I don't see patients aware of this or urging their states to change those laws. At least in the big blue places ...
  • AK
    Ado K.
    6 May 2020 @ 15:35
    Dena may understand medicine in great fashion, not arguing this fact. The virus might kill 1 million people around the world, I feel very comfortable in saying that the lock down will at least kill 10 million. So the best action to save the most amount of lives would have been to lock down exactly 0 days, 0 hours and 0 minutes. With all due respect scientists lack of respect for economics is astonishing, they just think stuff exists and we can solve lack of productivity with more money. Lebanon, Iran and Angola are on the brink of civil war, how many people will die there? How many countries cant survive with 15 USD oil prices? How many people depend on their work to eat? Unfortunately we in the west have completely lost touch with reality.
  • ET
    Eldon T.
    6 May 2020 @ 15:26
    Straight from DNC central casting. I agree with Mike B. Belongs on CNN, not RV.
  • RP
    Raoul P. | Founder
    5 May 2020 @ 19:46
    Please, let's not turn this into who agrees with whose politics. People have different views and that is fine. We should all learn from each other, regardless if it agrees with your own views. Demising people because you don't think they agree with your own stance closes you out to broader information. The RV balance is allowing different views - we can have Bannon and Farage and we can have people from the lot too. All are equally welcome to learn from, as that is why we are all here. Please, don't let you politics spill into the comments.
    • LM
      Lorin M.
      5 May 2020 @ 19:49
      Please don't let overt political bias spill into the content here.
    • MT
      Mark T.
      5 May 2020 @ 20:06
      Couldn't agree more Raoul. I think of RV as apolitical.
    • MI
      Mitchell I.
      5 May 2020 @ 20:13
      is she a politician or a doctor?
    • SB
      Sunny B.
      5 May 2020 @ 20:46
      Agreed. Tribalism rears it's head far too frequently these days!
    • DW
      Derek W.
      5 May 2020 @ 21:30
      Grow up you guys. If it’s politically tinted, can’t you figure out the facts for yourselves and then let the other escape to the ether?
    • jm
      jim m.
      5 May 2020 @ 23:41
      Correct Raoul......................
    • eg
      eduardo g.
      6 May 2020 @ 00:02
      Agree but these are politicos no1, not simply "expert Dr." - so good to hear but in terms of full disclosure: her- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dena_Grayson him - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Grayson So is good interview but w/ caveats. (Stockholm syndrome??).
    • CM
      Charles M.
      6 May 2020 @ 00:54
      The reason that the responses to this presentation got political is because Grayson got political. The comments were not de novo.
    • NI
      Nate I.
      6 May 2020 @ 14:34
      You brought her on. Take responsibility for the outcome.
  • BG
    Bryce G.
    6 May 2020 @ 14:25
    Wow I think this is the most comments I've seen on a video here. This video was good for sure, unfortunately not a lot of terribly new information for me. It's sad that something on mainstream channels has not brought everything together like this. One of the key pieces of the puzzle missing to me is Remdesivir. She is talking like this is something that should be administered early, but from what I understand it has shown some very severe side effects in the past and not something you want if you don't truly need it. Is this drug actually viable outside of severe cases when there is even enough of it produced? As far as the "bias" goes -- sure, she is more on the liberal side. So? I don't understand why people willingly tune out information based on political leaning. Everything she said was true, albeit it does discount factors outside the strictly health realm. Even Trump has openly said it in his press conferences although in not the most elegant way -- there was one case when they banned travel. Even if he thought it was going to be that bad (which certainly seems doubtful with the rally he held) what is he really supposed to do at that point anyway? Media would portray him as "the mad germophobe", the lockdown would be delegitimized, and the advice of the federal government ignored. It wasn't just America and spring breakers, France, Mexico... there were plenty of other countries that still held large gatherings. People are spoiled and simply do not accept that bad things can actually happen until they do.
  • WM
    William M.
    6 May 2020 @ 14:00
    About 68% of likely voters in six key 2020 swing states said they have “somewhat” or “very” serious concerns about Covid-19, a new CNBC/Change Research poll found. The share dipped from 76% in mid-April. Fears among Republicans dwindled, while Democratic worries stayed about the same. Only 39% of likely GOP voters responded that they have “somewhat” or “very” serious concerns, a slide from 55% when the States of Play survey was last taken on April 17 and 18. About 7 in 10 Republicans said the effects of the pandemic are getting better rather than worse. Only 12% of Democratic respondents said the same. Does this also explain all the negative votes for this excellent video? No...RV viewers are really smart and objective and understand science and facts, don't they? While she does give Trump an F for his tardy and inadequate response to the pandemic, she does praise his current efforts to speed up vaccine development. Personally I wouldn't grade any leader yet....they'd all get I's --- for incomplete ... because the pandemic isn't over yet. While I worry about the potential next waves of the virus, I worry more about how broken the US is by our partisan divide. I never thought I'd long for the days of Reagan and Tip O'Neal, but I do. We've got to find common ground or this country will lose to the Chinese and others over time...It's up to all of us to get out of our partisan bunkers and unite. Otherwise we'll have a depression and a revolution and we'll be lucky if we get another FDR to help us out of the abyss.
  • MB
    Mike B.
    6 May 2020 @ 13:25
    I was looking forward to this interview, but after watching it, I was very disappointed. Her political views/bias slanted the conversation and made it hard to watch. Early in the interview, you asked her about the economic consequences of the lockdown, not only did she not answer the question, she went on with her views of Trump and his advisors. She suggested that Dr.Birx was an apologist for Trump while in the same breath gave Dr. Fauci praise even though she pointed our his comment about "nothing to worry about." while she claims to have been ringing the fire alarm in January. She then goes on to mention three drugs, one I had never heard about (Galidesivir) until this interview but seems to be a pet project of hers. You might have asked her to comment on Hydroxychloroquine and the Democratic Rep from Michigan, who claims it saved her life. She does not even address the controversial results of Remdesivir, which seems to speed up the recovery time from 15 to 11 days vs the placebo group. This interview is something you would expect from CNN, not RV.
  • RS
    Robert S.
    6 May 2020 @ 12:36
    It’s a flu!
  • BC
    Burton C.
    6 May 2020 @ 12:05
    I felt as though I had just turned on CNN and was watching a CNN virus special report laced with not so subtle Trump basing throughout. This discredited the entire message whether there was any truth in it or not. Really a waste of time.
  • JD
    James D.
    6 May 2020 @ 09:48
    I think its extremely refreshing and more importantly, useful to have non-market based guests on RV from time to time, especially when they have expertise in a relevant discipline - and you don't get much more relevant at the moment than virology. Its important to resist our cognitive biases when the politics potentially don't align with our own. As most of us are members of the financial industry we know ourselves what its like to be pigeon-holed as the stereotypical w*anker bankers etc...
  • JM
    Jim M.
    6 May 2020 @ 09:40
    The wife of the infamous Alan Grayson. Enough said.
  • KD
    Kaj D.
    6 May 2020 @ 09:36
    Outstanding. Lots of great infomation. Thank you
  • TR
    Tobias R.
    6 May 2020 @ 08:04
    She's worried for Africa because they don't have soup, when it's a disease that disproportionally kills old people with 95+% of a deaths being for people 50 years or older. The median age in Africa is 19.7 years. Two PHDs is no replacement for a basic education.
    • TR
      Tobias R.
      6 May 2020 @ 08:09
      *soap
  • CL
    Chad L.
    6 May 2020 @ 05:11
    I find myself disappointed in both RV and RV commenters wrt this interview. Dr. Grayson, who clearly possesses expert medical knowledge, is simultaneously deeply political. I did gain some valuable (medical) information watching this video, but at a cost of wading through the political nonsense. This was a "bad get" for RV. I think an expert of equal medical credibility could have been sourced and the ensuing political cat fight on this thread could and should have been avoided. That kind of deeply thoughtful DNA is something I expect from my RV Pro subscription and its absence in selecting this commentator calls into question my trust in the platform. The same applies to many, if not most of the comments posted about this interview. I typically read most of the comments for each video with the explicit purpose of gaining additional insights from erudite members of this platform. The RV promise, I thought, was not just highly curated, clear-eyed, and quality analysis, but an accompanying community that was equal to that quality. This thread leads me to suspect that may not be the case. If one cannot countenance another person's views, analysis, and conclusions then why subscribe to this service? I agree with other posters that the medical expertise does not necessarily translate into policy expertise and certainly not financial expertise, but I am willing to give Dr. Grayson some slack on that point, as her 2 Ph.D's are not in finance. My feedback to Pedro there is to work harder to focus the interviewee back onto topics that we can learn from and invest with. Political viewpoints do neither.
    • PD
      Pedro D. | Contributor
      6 May 2020 @ 06:18
      Thanks for the feedback.
  • wj
    wiktor j.
    5 May 2020 @ 09:12
    Also one needs to scroll back a couple years. Lets move all production of EVERYTHING to china because we can earn more. This is a question of production of test, protective gear for front line workers. We are now ALL paying for the globalist agenda. Dr Fauci has some explaining to do for writting checks to the wuhan lab for development of corona viruses and the patents in some spike proteins.
    • KO
      Kelly O.
      5 May 2020 @ 19:01
      Agreed!
    • IZ
      Ileana Z.
      6 May 2020 @ 04:35
      Absolutely!!! The lack of an appropriate stockpile of emergency supplies at the state and federal level did not happen under this administration alone. This has been a long time in the making and a bipartisan effort. I respect her intellect and her fund of knowledge is evident but so is her overwhelming bias! How can she give Fauci and the WHO a pass??? They are the Medical experts we pay to tell it like it is whether or not the President agrees. They delivered misinformation which cannot just be glossed over!
  • PT
    Pradeep T.
    6 May 2020 @ 04:32
    I am tired of the political bias in the main stream media. RV with its unbiased interviews has always been an exception. There is a lot of political bias in this interview. I am not too concerned about how Dr.Fauci or Dr.Brix operate in front of Trump; or the disinfectant narrative; since they do not contribute anything to how I should prepare from a safety/health/economic/investments perspective for the coming second wave. The comment about "Billionaires should be in the front" is sheer economic ignorance. Having said that I think this is a pretty good interview over all and we should give credit to the guest for trying to help us understand the medical side of things. I now know that having a vaccine ready within an year is a hopeful thought and that we should be prepared for the second wave.
  • SC
    Scott C.
    6 May 2020 @ 04:31
    Did not expect this from real vision. I can watch CNN or Fox News if I want to hear someone preach to me from their ideological high horse.
  • KO
    K O.
    6 May 2020 @ 04:17
    Good video, but these are like fucking ZeroHedge level comments...
  • SN
    Shmuel N.
    6 May 2020 @ 03:26
    Terrible political bias!
  • JP
    J P.
    6 May 2020 @ 03:21
    Thank God DeSantis won the election. Heaven help us from the likes of government under her. The Scariest words in the english language "Im fromt the government and I'm here to help!"
  • XF
    Xavier F.
    6 May 2020 @ 03:18
    not one of your better interviews, pass on the politics and the blame game. Focus on helping us help our clients
  • GF
    Gordon F.
    6 May 2020 @ 00:59
    I read through all the comments before listening to this interview. The real shortcoming that I see in Dr. Grayson's perspective is what Bastiat described as the "seen" and the "unseen". The "seen" are the obvious first-order effects - in this case, that the virus is very contagious and can overwhelm medical systems if we don't take precautions - while the "unseen" has to do with the catastrophic effects that have been inflicted on the economy by the total shutdown. With some careful consultation, might we have implemented restrictions that would have gotten us 90% of the benefits of a total shutdown, but with only 10-20% of the economic impact that we have suffered? I can't say for sure, but I am certain we could have done better than we have done. In any case, I am glad to see different restrictions being tried in different places so that we can get a better idea of what works. In any case, people are going to die. If we have to rely on herd immunity, then most people are eventually going to catch it, and a fraction will die, even with the best care we can provide. Our goal, at least as I see it, is to keep the number of people needing hospital care below the number that we can treat, NOT to totally stop the progress of the disease. She also talks about testing, which I agree is important, but what about evaluating those who appear to be infected with the virus, but who develop only mild symptoms, or no symptoms at all. Reportedly, this is a large fraction of the total population. What do they have in common, and can we learn to predict with moderately high confidence who will fall into that category? If so, we should encourage this group to get exposed and develop immunity while those who would likely develop more serious complications remain in lockdown. Once this group is no longer likely to catch it and spread it, the rate of spread among those who are more vulnerable will be much slower. Meanwhile, they could keep a lot of economic activity going. She also talked about South America, and particularly Ecuador, and how badly it has been hit in its "winter" season. I live in Ecuador, and we don't HAVE a winter season. We are on the equator (which is what Ecuador means in Spanish), and the massive infections and deaths in Guayaquil happened in temperatures in the 30s (Celsius, or 90s in Fahrenheit), with plenty of humidity. I would not expect summer weather in the US to bring much respite. Over all, I don't think the so-called experts have demonstrated that they are worthy of much respect, and sadly, I include Dr. Grayson in this conclusion. "An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less, until she knows everything about nothing."
    • LS
      Lemony S.
      6 May 2020 @ 02:41
      Yes, pay me now or pay me later. No one will remember, but please look up all cause mortality in a few years, and smile when you picture me saying "I told you so" --- there will be no excess mortality this year, around the whole world. Watch. IYIs know nothing about bias. And that's the point.
  • JE
    James E.
    6 May 2020 @ 01:08
    Test, test, test, test, test, test, test. This should be done by every country. This was known very early on. I haven't been tested, never asked. This is the failure in my opinion.
    • LS
      Lemony S.
      6 May 2020 @ 02:38
      We already know the IFR is low, low low. Testing will only show this media fraud for more of what it is, so go ahead, but we already know that.
  • JS