Gold’s Evolving Role in Portfolios

Featuring Simon Mikhailovich

Simon Mikhailovich, Co-Founder of the Tocqueville Bullion Reserve, returns to Real Vision to discuss the events that propelled him to become a gold investor. In this in-depth interview, Mikhailovich speaks with Real Vision’s Grant Williams about gold’s role in a portfolio and how it can be used to hedge against risk. Filmed on April 9, 2018 in New York.

Published on
11 May, 2018
Gold, Portfolio Management, Macro
63 minutes


  • WK

    William K.

    10 6 2018 14:17

    2       0

    Simon, well done. Your Swiss bank reclassified you from “client” to “customer” - THE agency problem of our time and industry. Great interview and questions by Grant.

  • GM

    Greg M.

    22 5 2018 13:07

    1       0

    I really enjoyed this, especially looking at the asset gold through the eyes of insurance.

    Simon is very thoughtful and colorful in his approach. This interview could have went all day and still been interesting.

  • RP

    Ryan P.

    20 5 2018 17:23

    3       0

    It’s amazing to me how more pension plans don’t understand this exact interview.

  • OL

    Otto L.

    19 5 2018 14:44

    3       0

    I Always enjoy Simon's interviews. Thanks. It seems to me that very few market risk pros understand how insurance and reinsurance actually work. Have you considered interviewing an expert to educate the viewership? Lmk if you need some suggestions for interviewees. Also the Ecclesiastes reference makes me wonder if it's a good time to visit Neil Howe again?

  • WB

    William B.

    18 5 2018 09:24

    1       0

    I love the reality of long term perspectives mixed with the short (3-6) month trade ideas. We survive by using all aspects of our brain we have access to. The fun is using my little brain to place priorities on ideas that might be trades in my world as I know it and try to grow that world daily to make even better decisions tomorrow.. Can you do the two step? One fast forward, one slow up , the shuffle of both to the beat and repeat..being able to turn opens up a whole new ball game from there.

  • JF

    Jennifer F.

    17 5 2018 09:04

    1       0

    I Love Simons Common sense. Its so very rare these days.

  • JF

    Jennifer F.

    17 5 2018 09:04

    0       0

    I Love Simons Common sense. Its so very rare these days.

  • DS

    Darryl S.

    16 5 2018 11:02

    3       0

    Wonderful reference to Mark Twain and what everyone (taps nose) just knows. Uncertainty and doubt drives better decisions. Almost 30 years as a firefighter reminds me that certainty and a tomorrow that relies on certainty is a luxury few can afford.

  • DY

    Dmytro Y.

    16 5 2018 05:05

    4       0

    Hi Simon,
    hello from ex USSR fellow :)
    Thoroughly enjoyed this interview and your unique philosophical approach and appeal to historic wisdom.
    Great thanks for the video.

  • WB

    Wes B.

    15 5 2018 16:23

    2       5

    He makes the storage issue sound so complicated without ever giving a reasonable answer to it. Also, what the hell did he do with the suitcase full of gold in Zurich? Good piece. I get it. Hold gold in case financial markets become unglued. It would be nice to hear the best way to purchase and store it though. I think most investors have no clue. My Morgan Stanley broker certainly can't tell me how to do it. There have been 100 RV pieces on gold. I'd like to see one where they tell you best way to buy and store $100k-500K worth of precious metals.

  • PB

    Pieter B.

    15 5 2018 05:59

    1       0

    Outstanding! Massive thanks!

  • AC

    Andrew C.

    14 5 2018 09:09

    1       0


    If I may, some questions about different “physical golds” from around the world.

    The Royal Perth Mint sells coins / bars at 99.9% purity

    Thailand uses 96.5% purity

    India uses 91.67%

    (I believe these numbers are correct for bars and jewelry)

    What’s your take on the differences, and the effects these may have using gold as insurance?

    Also, how do you consider the “mark-up” for coins or “craftsmanship” for Asian Jewelry (purchased as insurance, because they are often just easier to get your hands on)?


  • KF

    Karen F.

    14 5 2018 07:31

    0       0

    Nice interview. Please ask Simon to speak louder next time (or turn his amplifier up ;-) )

  • RD

    RP D.

    13 5 2018 16:56

    0       0

    Are Grants trousers a little bit ripped?

    Wonderful content. Thanks Simon and Grant.

  • DR

    Daniel R.

    13 5 2018 15:27

    4       1

    I am so glad you have he is a regular contributor to RV. THANK YOU SIMON.

  • JV

    Jason V.

    13 5 2018 10:11

    2       0

    Expertly questioned and brilliantly answered. Thank you, Grant and Simon. It's a real privilege to listen in on such a conversation.

  • JB

    Jonathon B.

    13 5 2018 08:56

    4       0

    I loved the UHT milk analogy with Gold.

    Just FYI Simon, I am stealing it.

  • JD

    John D.

    13 5 2018 06:44

    4       5

    Nice conversation that further strengthens the case for Bitcoin...

  • MS

    Michael S.

    13 5 2018 03:06

    2       1


  • DS

    David S.

    12 5 2018 22:21

    0       0

    Would it reasonable to start out with physical gold by buying a putting in your safety deposit box? Where and in what form would you buy gold to store in your safety deposit box. Thx. DLS

  • EL

    Edward L.

    12 5 2018 17:01

    6       0

    Simon, as ever, is the brilliant and entertaining discussant to inform and provoke. He is the pedagogue that harkens to philosophic educators at critical times in world history. This discussion is much more than a discussion about gold as it is about values in life, human awareness, and the difference between belief and reality.

  • HH

    Henri H.

    12 5 2018 16:32

    1       0

    Fantastic interview! Grant does a fantastic job as usual and Simon is definitely one of my favourite guests on RV!

  • SS

    Steve S.

    12 5 2018 14:01

    3       0

    Where to store your physical gold is if nots in the financial system such as a bank vault? Having it in the home doesn't sound like a safe bet.

  • JH

    Jesse H.

    12 5 2018 13:49

    1       0

    One of the best, hands down.

  • KC

    Kevin C.

    12 5 2018 13:26

    0       0

    Tech prob - ‘Download Audio’ loops first minute or so. Also on my iPhone SE the file doesn’t download so I can’t play it offline. It streams instead. FYI

  • BL

    Bart L.

    12 5 2018 11:05

    3       0

    Fascinating discussion by Simon and Grant, gave me an alternate view of gold and rethink the use of GLD in the future especially as I think there will be a liquidity crunch in the near future (6-12 months. Thanks RV, great job as always, love your work Grant

  • ZY

    ZHENG Y.

    12 5 2018 10:32

    1       0

    Great interview, RealVision you are doing better and better.
    Good point on silver too.

  • CS

    C S.

    12 5 2018 08:26

    4       0

    Golds value is in carrying value through troubling times but that value is realised on the other side; else purchasing large assets in the malee. Its not for buying milk and cookies in the midst of emergency.
    Warren Pollock was in the NY storm surge. He offered silver coins to folks for gas/other stuff and none of them knew what to do with it/wanted it. They wanted small denominations of cash. Even in hyperinflations the penchant is still to use the rapidly inflating currency. Of course, necessities/real goods are the best items to have on hand, for trade.

  • GO

    Gary O.

    12 5 2018 04:50

    2       0

    This is what you get when you talk to the pros.
    Thank you Grant and Simon!

  • CA

    Craig A.

    12 5 2018 04:06

    4       54

    Good talker but another gold salesman.
    Look at golds return lifetime over the last century. Its awful.
    Please stop try to sell us gold garbage, and find something of better value
    What happened to RealVision.

  • BS

    Bill S.

    12 5 2018 03:28

    6       0

    Best reasoning I have ever come across on how
    to think about gold as an asset and as part of a
    overall portfolio.

  • NI

    Nate I.

    12 5 2018 02:56

    9       0

    Another extraordinary conversation. Tapping into the wisdom of Simon Mikhailovich and Tony Deden has been incredibly valuable. I hope both return to the RV cameras soon. Thanks Grant! Keep them coming.

  • VS

    Valentin S.

    12 5 2018 02:40

    1       4

    In the end TBR is holding gold in a vault in Zurich and charging 50 basis points annually. Why not go to the Vanguard of bullion storage? BullionVault charges 6 basis points to buy and sell, and 12 to store per year. So storing your gold with TBR would cost 2.5% for five years, yet using BullionVault would be 0.73%.

  • DF

    Dominic F.

    12 5 2018 01:19

    5       0

    "People have been excused from thinking and from learning because markets go up" Boom!

  • AD

    A D.

    11 5 2018 23:50

    6       7

    Standing on the street with several thousand Bitcoin on a Trezor wallet certainly seems like a better way to travel. Just sayin...the only universally accepted independent asset?

  • F

    Floyd .

    11 5 2018 22:55

    8       0

    Few if any experts value/weight history properly. Extremely refreshing. Asking what can go wrong especially from someone who actually experienced hardship is very instructive. Good one Grant!

  • MN

    Maverick N.

    11 5 2018 22:55

    7       0

    What a superb interview.......the pearls of wisdom that Simon keeps dropping.......Just this one is worth the entire year's fee. Grant, kudos for another great one!

  • SS

    Sam S.

    11 5 2018 22:18

    5       0

    Second video with Simon for me and he's taken the conversation to a deeper level. Well done! Thx Guys.

  • FH

    Franz-Xaver H.

    11 5 2018 21:12

    6       0

    Great discussion. With a focus on the insurance aspect it's a reasonable way to look at gold. Long ago I was responsible for the fire insurance of a small chemical factory. There I learned what to insure. If you cannot bear a possible outcome, you have to insure. If the maximum damage is only a financial loss you can absorb, you can save money by skipping the insurance.

  • SH

    Stu H.

    11 5 2018 20:53

    5       0


  • WG

    Wade G.

    11 5 2018 19:23

    5       0

    Great video, thanks guys.

  • SS

    Sam S.

    11 5 2018 19:14

    4       0

    Grant is back! All Right All Right.

  • SH

    Steve H.

    11 5 2018 18:12

    5       0


  • DW

    Daniel W.

    11 5 2018 16:49

    7       0

    I always love listening to those two gents. However, I hope one day they take it a step further and Grant asks him about "the rest" of Simon's portfolio. How does he create income exceot TBR? How does he generate growth within his portfolio?

  • CC

    Christopher C.

    11 5 2018 15:46

    12       0

    Great video. I am not sure anyone alive actually remembers what happened the last time the system collapsed. It has passed from memory to shadowy myth and yet... Our profligate political and personal spending, clueless monetary authorities and the banking guilds are all playing perfectly their prescribed parts necessary to conjure the beast. It will roam again and devour the unwary, the unlucky, the disrespectful, and perhaps even some few of the prepared and wise. It is at its roots a morality tale, though few will admit it. I expect those who can and do will be most counted amongst the least harmed in the aftermath.

  • SF

    Simon F.

    11 5 2018 15:20

    6       0

    Great interview with two genuinely nice but whip smart guys. It was really valuable to be walked through the myriad practical realities of why and how gold is insurance, and how understanding this puts into stark relief the fragility and interconnected architecture of the rest of the financial ecosystem - if a big bit of it collapses, chances are the rest can’t be decoupled........time to reach for your unconnected plan B!

  • TJ

    Terry J.

    11 5 2018 14:32

    8       0

    Another classic video that was totally absorbing. I could have listened to Simon and Grant discussing the importance of having portfolio and event insurance, that is genuinely "outside" the financial system for hours. Sadly all too few of us in the West grasp this while it is second nature to Asians.

  • SS

    Steve S.

    11 5 2018 14:16

    21       0

    Love watching anything Grant is in. His content recently has been exceptional.

  • JM

    Jim M.

    11 5 2018 13:21

    11       0

    One of RealVision's rock stars. Always a treat.

  • RE

    Richard E.

    11 5 2018 13:02

    20       0

    This was a fascinating discussion. On the surface such common sense, but digging deeper one realizes the extent to which his views have been thoroughly researched. One gets the sense that Simon is playing chess while others are playing checkers. Thank you.

  • JR

    Joe R.

    11 5 2018 13:01

    5       0

    Love hearing Simon's perspectives.

  • JS

    John S.

    11 5 2018 11:52

    10       0

    Always a pleasure to listen to Simon

  • PU

    Peter U.

    11 5 2018 09:17

    6       0

    Oh, this is going to be good!