The Combustibility of Brexit

Published on
June 13th, 2019
Duration
48 minutes

The Combustibility of Brexit

The Interview ·
Featuring Dr. Irene Finel-Honigman

Published on: June 13th, 2019 • Duration: 48 minutes

Dr. Irene Finel-Honigman, adjunct professor at Columbia University, is a well-established expert on European banking, international policy, and US-EU relations. In this interview with Strategic Insights Group CEO and founder Dee Smith, Finel-Honigman focuses that expertise on the UK, speaking to the conditions that led to Brexit, as well as the likely outcomes from this point. The greatest political risks she sees are in the European Union, which must reform its institutions, as well as in the UK, where the wrong policy choices could lead to a “genuine sense of outrage and anger” among the British electorate. Filmed on June 5, 2019 in New York.

Comments

Transcript

  • WM
    Will M.
    15 June 2019 @ 19:39
    Well I downvotes this interview and the MMT interview today. First 2 down votes I have made for months and 2 of only about 6 ever. The lady has a Council for Foreign Relations tee shirt under her shirt. People are sick of the EU bureaucratic elite. Dee failed to push a bit deeper on some of her points. The anger coming in the UK is guaranteed no matter what happens. If they hold another referendum there is no guarantee the result won't be closer or perhaps a switch the other way. The person to blame for all of this is David Cameron, he gambled and lost. May was a TERRIBLE negotiator that telegraphed her positions and if you were not ready to HARD Brexit, then you should not have entered into negotiations in the first place. What a farce. Now, the UK could well end up with a populist leader. Throughout Europe the lights may well, begin to go out again. At least the Baby Boomers know what that means. Incidentally Singapore was a great model for Singapore and took a country from poverty to riches through hard work, but strict codes of behavior. I was there several times in the 80s and 90s. I was totally safe, place was spotlessly clean, people were incredibly polite, never saw a HINT of violence or threat. I know it couldn't work for the Barbarian West, but boy has it worked well for Singapore.
    • WM
      Will M.
      15 June 2019 @ 19:42
      And by the way since Irene is a "well established expert in European banking" perhaps she could have taken the time to discuss why Europes banking system is on thin ice and how the ECB have destroyed the Euro bond market, the capitalist system and set the fuse for the coming EU meltdown. NO the EU will not contiue for much longer as it is, it is doomed.
  • JC
    John C.
    15 June 2019 @ 16:46
    Dee, Please let me open with I genuinely enjoy your pieces on Real Vision. I have watched all of your productions and left each one feeling better informed about those topics that you have covered. However, I am always caught off guard by the innuendos in your pieces around the U.S. election in 2016 and Putin. I perceive your comments to imply this was one of the works of a grand master of state craft in the classic sense discussed by Carl Von Clasusewitz’s classic “On War.” I am in disagreement with you and your guest because the e-mails provided to WikiLeaks (regardless of who) were the truth. Neither the Clinton campaign nor the mainstream media has challenged the authenticity of the information found in those e-mails. When did the truth become a form of manipulation? It would appears to me that you and your guest believe like the famous movie quote from ‘A Few Good Men’ that those folks from the provisional parts of the UK and USA “..can’t handle the truth” Therefore, I am asking/challenging Real Vision to take this subject on. Make an episode laying out the facts as you see them. Sincerely
  • LH
    Leigh H.
    15 June 2019 @ 14:35
    She epitomizes the ignorance of the chattering class.
  • JO
    Johnny O.
    15 June 2019 @ 10:27
    Contradicting the pro-EU cheerleading of these two Bremoaners, the truth of May's failure and treachery, and the EU's arrogance is shown in the following video, in which an insider has videod EU chief negotiators admitting that they got more than they hoped from May, that they intended cynically to use the Irish border issue as a hostage to permanently pressure the UK, and that they were succeeding in turning the UK into a colony: https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/economics/let-s-discuss-brexit-and-how-the-eu-bragged-on-film-about-screwing-the-uk-9W7AB-awoEK5YleA7457wg/
  • DH
    Dean H.
    15 June 2019 @ 04:08
    Interesting perspective. Although the interview came across with a sense of moral superiority.
  • WG
    Wade G.
    15 June 2019 @ 02:29
    I couldn't finish it. What a couple of globalist hacks. Dee Smith might look for a new schtick, something other than the Russians did it. If Neo-liberals could do something besides concentrate wealth in fewer hands--perhaps actually reversing that trend, through free-market tactics--they might find themselves leading a peaceful future, not just watching from the sidelines as the world burns from their own arson. Content unworthy of RV. Fail.
  • VS
    Victor S. | Contributor
    14 June 2019 @ 19:46
    Well it was fascinating watching two charming “Globalists “ chat about a wishful reality. The word never mentioned for England was: LIBERTY? The trends Since Brexit have been clear-the world is moving to the right aggressively and the National Populist Traditionalist movement is getting stronger. Brexit will occur on 10/31/19 and it will be with no deal -as that was the vote! The new world order is over, like Merkel,Macron and the worst prime Minister in UK history MS T.May. This is reality but Dr Irene did not address this . Calling the UK a Democracy is a little ironic as Brexit did not occur Yet. Also democrat discourse is not what the UK allows...try criticizing Islam? Interesting interview but worthless to an investor/trader.
    • BM
      Beth M.
      14 June 2019 @ 20:46
      Your of commentary is/was very helpful...you just saved 48 minutes of my life from watching more globilist drivel! Many thanks!
    • WM
      Will M.
      15 June 2019 @ 19:49
      Victor I am with you 100% although I would not be willing to bet serous money there won't be some form of extension. Yes the world we live in today is so politically correct there is no right to free speech. As long as I do not insight racial hatred or violence I should be able to state my views and have people disagree, debate or totally ignore them. Instead the merest hint of anti-immigration and you are labelled a fascist or a racist. Stifling free speech them provides a breeding ground for resentment.
  • IO
    Igor O.
    14 June 2019 @ 18:40
    Oh gawd russians again. Be sure if in second referendum 75 percent vote to leave blame on Russia
    • IO
      Igor O.
      14 June 2019 @ 18:46
      If actually decide to rape the democracy and ignore the results of first one.
  • SB
    Stephen B.
    14 June 2019 @ 17:21
    What on earth has happened to Real Vision? Russian money in the referendum? Describing the referendum as "foolish" and the result as "cataclysmic"? This is not legitimate analysis but globalist propaganda. Real Vision needs to hold itself to a higher standard.
  • CG
    Christine G.
    14 June 2019 @ 14:35
    Excellent overview of the big picture with her personal read of some of the issues. Some may interpret some issues differently. Those who want to be taken by the hand and told to invest in stock X to achieve a Y return, will be disappointed. In the complex flow of reality, it is good to step back and question where we are and how we got here, to recognize the real psychological confusion created by a world in transition, to acknowledge how that confusion will create unstable political landscapes, and to separate the daily news from the on-going quiet work of people trying to make things work in an imperfect world. While showing how Brexit highlighted many of the political winds and problems, and solved none of them, the talk may not have focused enough on some of the real economic problems of the EU, notable the continued preeminence of Germany and the continuing decline of peripheral countries who cannot now lower their exchange rates. That will have to be for later talks. Those problems have been overlooked in a desperate attempt to stop internal conflicts and wars, which the EU has done.
  • SS
    Sam S.
    14 June 2019 @ 14:32
    Bottom Line is the UK doesn't need the EU/Brussels, who controls the member nations debt denominated in each countries currency rather than it having been converted and denominated in EUROs to start with. So just follow the money as UK is far more powerful as it relates to trade with other EU nations and doesn't really depend on any of them. Germany's biggest car importer is the UK. Over time, the EU will implode once Brexit takes place. The people voted for Brexit as they want their nation back, business back, stop all this foolish immigration started by Merkel and get back to being their own sovereign nation, rather than some appearance for false perception as such. Paying a breakup fee is ridiculous and the UK should just leave. Just like Trump getting elected, the whole EU will come running to make deals on the UK terms rather than being left out of trading with the UK. Brussels has become a farce. Go Brexit!
  • RN
    Robert N.
    14 June 2019 @ 10:25
    The interviewee referred to "the awful Irish issue and question that's floating out there, which is completely misunderstood or not understood by anyone". Writing as a resident of Northern Ireland, I would claim the "awful Irish issue" is perfectly understood in Ireland, North and South, but was forgotten about in Westminster to general anger on the whole of the island. There is a proposed border between the Six Counties and the Twenty Six Counties of "The North" and "The South" respectively, where that terminology has certain resonances acccording to community allegiance. To use the words of the summary, there will be a "genuine sense of outrage and anger" from at least half the community in "The North" should border posts appear and their duration intact is probably a matter of days if not hours. There is a proposed "border" between "Northern Ireland" and the "rest of the UK" which would be somewhere in the Irish Sea. Should that occur, there will be a "genuine sense of outrage and anger" from half of the community in "The North" that Westminster has betrayed and abandoned the Unionist population pushing them into a United Ireland. Whoever takes on the PM role will be quickly reminded of the Confidence and Supply agreement which was between the DUP and the Conservatives. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/conservative-and-dup-agreement-and-uk-government-financial-support-for-northern-ireland/agreement-between-the-conservative-and-unionist-party-and-the-democratic-unionist-party-on-support-for-the-government-in-parliament As far as I recall the interview never mentioned the "backstop" once despite that being the critical issue that scuppered May's agreement.
  • CC
    Chris C.
    14 June 2019 @ 09:22
    I had to shut this down after 20 minutes. All I heard was “#Brexit can be solved by more of the same only more! Oh and if we bring in more climate change hoaxters we can really build a coalition of more of the same “
  • AM
    Andrew M.
    14 June 2019 @ 08:34
    Please get Bernard Connelly on RV - with a Europhile like Dee to interview him perhaps? Connelly is an economist by trade, worked in the EC, and wrote 'The Rotten Heart of Europe' - the most seminal take-down of the EU, most of which has proved prescient as well, especially his criticisms of monetary union and the Euro. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4DKKOlsJeE His explosive claim that the introduction of the Euro and monetary union, BEFORE any political union (which was impossible then), was designed to spark crises (Greece, Italy etc) that would hasten political integration is remarkable. More here: https://blogs.wsj.com/source/2011/10/31/did-the-euros-architects-expect-it-to-fail/
  • PD
    Paul D.
    14 June 2019 @ 08:13
    I have to say, this interview is as unbalanced as the coffee table I made in woodwork when I was 15.
  • PD
    Paul D.
    14 June 2019 @ 07:45
    The UK Joined the ERM while Mrs Thatcher was still PM.
  • EL
    Erik L.
    14 June 2019 @ 07:40
    Great interview, really enjoyed it! 👍
  • HA
    Harrison A.
    14 June 2019 @ 04:25
    There’s 48 minutes I’ll never get back. “Brexit was a cataclysmic mess that never needed to happen” “The UK has to be careful that politicians ... do not in term ignite a genuine sense of outrage and anger” Irene has completely lost the plot. “I do personally admire Theresa May...” “I personally feel referendums are one giant mistake” This is probably the worst interview I have ever seen on this platform. I don’t say that because I’m pro-Brexit-I admit I am biased. I say that because there is nothing insightful, novel, or actionable here. Just a bunch of “feelings” and unsubstantiated arm chair pontification from a Francophile who puts the “Piled Higher and Deeper” in PHD. You would have to be an academic with no skin in the game to be this disconnected from reality.
  • EA
    Edward A.
    14 June 2019 @ 04:13
    The lack of self awareness is strong in these two.
  • JS
    John S.
    14 June 2019 @ 04:13
    Another academic with no skin in the game
  • MB
    Michael B.
    14 June 2019 @ 03:11
    I only listened to 15 minutes then I could take no more. Respectfully, the interviewer Dee is more knowledgeable than the interviewee but had to sit silent or endure getting interrupted rudely. She was short on facts and insights, applied bizarre accents when name dropping foreign dignitaries, and came across as arrogant and intoxicated by academics. I don’t mean to sound judgmental and I do appreciate that she gave her time for what she thought could be a benefit to others. It just may have been a poor use of RV resources.
  • SA
    Stephen A.
    14 June 2019 @ 02:55
    So Merkel is going to plug 5 million Muslims in the middle of Europe (which has 500 years of history fighting the Ottoman Empire, Moors and various other Islamic nations) and she thinks that will just go over well without any issues at all. What planet is Merkel living on? The entire history of Europe, half of its monuments, heck even the croissant are all symbols and celebrations of the struggle against Islam. So all of sudden people need to switch their mentality around in a year. My mother still wonders "what the hell is happening here". Are you kidding me? And then these intellectuals still can't figure out why Europeans can accept the immigration? People in Europe haven't lived their entire lives walking back and forth on the straight streets of Manhattan. Many of them walk everyday past monuments where the Ottomans beheaded some nationalist hero from the 18th or 19th century. American intellectuals have such a shallow understanding of European history, it is not even funny. I doubt they know any European history before World War 2. Hitler, Louis XIV and Queen Elizabeth - that's about all Americans know about Europe. If it's not in Monty Python's History of the World they don't know it.
    • WM
      Will M.
      15 June 2019 @ 19:26
      Merkel will go down as the German leader that brought back nationalism to Germany. Allowing the muslim immigrants (mostly young men but the press photographs tailored to show women and children) was possibly the biggest single political mistake of the post war history. I am not against humanitarianism but mark my words, when the recession comes for Germany, violence is a given.
  • SS
    Shanthi S.
    13 June 2019 @ 23:14
    So patronising... painful to listen too. The poor ignorant peasants outside of London or NYC can’t possibly know what’s good for them, and god forbid they should have the opportunity to express what they think’s good for them. Honouring their wishes is of course out of the question. Just shut the eff up and let the morally superior and far wiser academics take care of your future, and your children’s future. I’m no nationalist, but found the tenor of this conversation nauseating.
    • SS
      Shanthi S.
      13 June 2019 @ 23:32
      Having said that, I do think it’s worth listening to these opinions, and give credit to RV for presenting us with all kinds of viewpoints.
  • JM
    John M.
    13 June 2019 @ 22:21
    I wonder if the two American speakers have considered the remote possibility that Grexit, ExItaly & Brexit are not aberrations but clear signs that the centralist bureaucratic EU structure is unworkable. I think it might be funny see the USA merge with Mexico and the other Latin American countries and see what a holy mess emerges!
  • DS
    David S.
    13 June 2019 @ 20:36
    Great discussion. For me it shows a negotiated Brexit is probably beyond human capabilities. I agree that MP May did the very best that could be done, but she was sabotaged by everybody at every turn in the UK and in Brussels. This is an era of blowing everything apart and picking up the pieces. Commerce will survive a hard Brexit. Politicians, alliances and countries not so much. It is sad for me that a Hard Brexit is the best hope. DLS
    • DS
      David S.
      14 June 2019 @ 08:06
      Try to remember when it happens - hard Brexit - or nothing happens - negotiated Brexit. . DLS
  • DS
    David S.
    13 June 2019 @ 19:34
    The major myth in Brexit is that Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and parts of Cornwall are primarily British. I agree wholeheartedly that the British should retain their sovereignty, but should Celtic areas of the UK be ruled by basically an English Parliament? As an American this question is not for me to answer but to pose. Are current UK citizens in Celtic areas willing to live under a British Parliament controlled by English interest; or would they be content also to have less money and live under more local rule. Brexit cuts more than one way. No outcome will be roses in the short run . DLS
    • AF
      Aidan F.
      13 June 2019 @ 20:46
      In Ireland the question now is, whether to be ruled by Brussels or the Brits. Personally I think an Anglo American Trade deal seems the best option for Ireland as EU just looks nothing but an absolute structural disaster
    • DS
      David S.
      14 June 2019 @ 08:11
      Aidan F. - The Brits will be fine under a hard Brexit. At least they can look forward to figure things out. For Northern Ireland it is a different question that maybe they should have some say in. DLS
    • ZM
      Zac M.
      14 June 2019 @ 09:39
      One of the great problems being that Blair indulging Welsh and Scottish nationalism has been the corollary effect of stoking English nationalism. As much as Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish feel dominated by England, England increasingly feels like its dominated by a cosmopolitan liberal/Islamic/Hindu/Sikh/Jewish/African London that they share no common cultural markers with. The Union is in danger of exploding and Brexit is most likely just the first of many political shocks that shake our out of touch ruling class.
    • DS
      David S.
      14 June 2019 @ 17:43
      Aidan F. and Zac M. - Thanks for your comments. In the past we have had terrible wars to solve these types of problems. I hope that we can solve these problems without a fighting war. Many people will suffer as we pick up the pieces, but it will be easier without a fighting war. When I look at the damage done to the Greeks, it is easy to see that this is economic warfare. Good luck to all involved in the Brexit struggle. There are no easy answers and no road map to follow. DLS
  • WB
    William B.
    13 June 2019 @ 19:05
    These two would-be Remainers basically endorse the "let's drag this out with no conclusion until the Leavers surrender from exhaustion" strategy and spend not one second discussing the profound & lasting damage a democracy might endure when the result of a democratic process is ignored (far worse than the economic impact in the U.K. from Brexit).
  • Av
    Ad v.
    13 June 2019 @ 18:25
    Can't wait to see Britain hard Brexit and burn and blame it all on the EU. Brexit has been of great entertainment value so far. Bring on the down votes! ;)
  • rr
    rlw r.
    13 June 2019 @ 18:13
    Dee has great knowledge & insights. But interviewing the pompous academics kinda always falls flat with RV viewers doesn’t it - strike 2
  • HS
    Henry S.
    13 June 2019 @ 18:01
    From a Millennials perspective that voted to leave it wasn't anything to do with immigration for me. I voted to leave because I can't see how different economies at different parts of their business cycle can share a currency and continue to grow, which is crucial for social stability. I'm well aware we don't have the Euro but I'm also aware that countries becoming insolvent on the continent comes with a nasty history lesson.
    • DS
      David S.
      13 June 2019 @ 20:49
      As a millennial do you really want to have bureaucrats in Brussels as your sovereign. I was and I still am in favor of the EEC, but not an EEC with a Brussels' only sovereign. So many things are going to blow up in the next five years, you need to figure up how you want to put them back together. There needs to be a lot of new thinking. Good Luck. DLS
    • HS
      Henry S.
      14 June 2019 @ 19:44
      "As a millennial do you really want to have bureaucrats in Brussels as your sovereign" There doesn't seem to be much in the way of anxiety among my generation about creeping unelected power, which is worrying to say the least. Your question is actually the most crucial one that Millennials and the younger generation seem to be glossing over. The mindset from my circle of friends and I'd say Millennials in general is rooted in idealism, whether it's the EU, the way economics should work to serve all, the equality of classes and sexes it all comes back to a lot of wishful thinking. We'll be needing all the luck we can get.
  • SP
    Sat P.
    13 June 2019 @ 17:01
    It never ceases to amaze me that supposedly intelligent people like this woman say things like “referendums are stupid”. What part of the word democracy don’t you understand? The UK has a first past the post system in General Elections and this rule applies there too even if the second place MP receives 48% of the vote. If we had to re-run elections because peoples’ feelings are upset then nothing would ever get done. Thanks fully she covers a lot of the issues such as too much migration, the importance of sovereignty and national identity. But again, she still has this undercurrent of “the people are stupid” throughout this interview which makes me question her judgement on any topic.
    • WM
      Will M.
      15 June 2019 @ 19:18
      Well said Sat.
  • ag
    anthony g.
    13 June 2019 @ 16:58
    Good to see a discussion taking place on this topic. Not sure if I learned anything new though. Lots of standard views on why stuff has happened , but with limited reference to other prospects. In short it sounded like another review by the global mindset which brought us zero interest rates and more debt which is slowly destroying the middle class almost everywhere. Essentially not very impressive or to put it another way - it could have been much better with other perspectives.
  • SH
    Sean H.
    13 June 2019 @ 16:46
    Dr. Honigman is clearly intelligent and learned on the topic of Europe and the UK and Dee is always insightful. Both gave me food for thought. It is disconcerting, however, when the 2 commentators, however deftly they present their case, clearly discount (and on the verge of disparage) the efficacy of the Brexit argument. There is a subtle air of "the establishment way" is good and any thoughts to the contrary will fail just because they say so. And I certainly agree with those comments below that the piece would have been better served with a Brit in the mix. Thought provoking on both sides which is of course what RV is working towards.
  • RP
    Raoul P. | Founder
    13 June 2019 @ 16:45
    Wow..this hit a raw nerve in the comments section! I didn't realise Brexit was such a touchy subject ;-)
    • PJ
      Peter J.
      13 June 2019 @ 18:14
      Probably the most polarising issue in the UK since the Falklands war (IMO)
    • PL
      Pete L.
      13 June 2019 @ 18:38
      Raoul. RVtv need and I repeat “need” to get Jacob Rees Mogg to do an or series of interviews on to redress the balance for your international viewers. There is clearly a total misunderstanding of Brexit amongst global commentators. Thanks. Ps. If in doubt, blame the Russians........ really!
    • PJ
      Peter J.
      13 June 2019 @ 18:46
      How can Jacob Rees Mogg be a balance, he is a rabid Brexiteer!! If you are going to have a balanced Brexit debate then I suggest you get Jacob Rees-Mogg and Vince Cable on as the protagonists and Grant or Raoul to referee the debate. There will be no balance with Rees-Mogg on his own, it will be a replay of the interview with Nigel Farage, which will simply give international viewers an even narrower Brexit centric view of events.
    • PL
      Pete L.
      13 June 2019 @ 19:50
      That’s the point. This interview was with two people who clearly didn’t understand the motivations for the U.K. voting to leave. Now let’s get someone on who can explain it to them. We’ve had the remainders, now let’s have a Brexiteer to “redress the balance”.
    • PL
      Pete L.
      13 June 2019 @ 19:53
      Although I would add; I think your idea of Cable and Rees Mogg on together is an excellent one.
    • CL
      Cyril L.
      13 June 2019 @ 21:52
      The problem is that people who voted Leave had very different motivations. Neither Nigel Farage nor Jacob Rees Mogg nor anybody else represents the entirety of the Leave vote, only fragments of it. That's what bothers me with this cliché "the Brexit people voted for". It just doesn't exist. The Brexit some hedge fund managers in the City voted for is very different from the Brexit some cab drivers voted for. I know because I've talked with both. And while I haven't talked with Leave voters from the outside London, I'm sure the Brexit they've voted for is yet a different thing. If there was a consensus among Leave voters about what Brexit should actually be, it would have already happened (or would be in the process of happening). The reason it's a mess is that this consensus simply doesn't exist. There is no outcome that will satisfy a majority of the English population - let alone of the British population.
    • RP
      Raoul P. | Founder
      13 June 2019 @ 23:59
      All - just remember, only a few weeks ago Nigel Farage was on Real Vision. We've even had Liam Fox on. Everyone gets a right to their considered opinion on RV. In fact, we havent had enough Remainers on to balance it out.
    • DS
      David S.
      14 June 2019 @ 08:20
      Great job Raoul. RVTV is giving everyone a chance. This was a great interview. The past interviews were also great interviews. The more the better. Be happy that everyone has an opinion. I would like to see more Brexit discussions on RVTV. Thanks. DLS
    • PN
      Philip N.
      14 June 2019 @ 11:10
      Brexit is a flash point but for many people the attitudes and opinions on display during the interview highlight everything that is wrong in the world. Well, everything is a bit hyperbolic, but more than 75%.
    • SB
      Stephen B.
      14 June 2019 @ 17:02
      Raoul, we all respect and can learn from different, well thought out analysis and perspectives. That is how we all grow and educate ourselves. What we object to is propaganda, masquerading as legitimate analysis. The MSM long ago sold itself out to such propaganda. As best you can, please keep Real Vision as a platform for genuine, thoughtful, intelligent analysis.
    • HS
      Henry S.
      14 June 2019 @ 19:20
      One day we'll look back on all this and laugh.......... won't we?
    • WM
      Will M.
      15 June 2019 @ 19:15
      Peter, the Falklands war was not particularly polarizing at at all. Pacifists and left wingers didn't like it for sure, but my recollection was it was heavily supported by the public.... It was also necessary to make it clear that the fascist Argentinian Generals just can't take land that was never theirs in the first place. Thatcher got a landslide victory for that escapade.
  • RM
    Richard M.
    13 June 2019 @ 16:08
    More CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) talking points - stale ideas (neoliberal/globalist/corporatist world order). Dee... really... the Russian boogey man regarding the Brexit vote. That is truly pathetic! Totally blind to the real underlying issues involved (or willfully understating them). I suppose it is still important for RVTV viewers to see this kind of material so that we can witness in real time the decaying and dying idealogy of these people.
    • KS
      Kathleen S.
      13 June 2019 @ 16:21
      Couldn't agree more!
  • MW
    Max W.
    13 June 2019 @ 14:38
    From our beginning as a species we have gone from small family units, to tribes, to city states, to principalities, then nation states, and now large economic unions. Our laws and cultures are converging as well as our economies. If all of you Brexiters in the comments below don't realize that this is a blip in the inevitable push towards consolidation of government and globalization you aren't paying attention. Hundreds of years from now your boomer temper tantrum will be a footnote in the history books.
    • DS
      David S.
      13 June 2019 @ 20:53
      This may be the time that we realize that bigger is not always better. DLS
  • PJ
    Peter J.
    13 June 2019 @ 13:28
    There may not be any Brit representation here, and there are holes in the arguments presented as laid out below (notably by Zac). But at least this does give some balance to my perception to date of RVTV maintaining a pro Brexit coverage only. Re Cameron she was absolutely spot on. I also agree with her interpretation that Thatcher to some degree gave us a soft Brexit by focusing on trade, where this was reinforced later by Brown keeping us out of the Euro (thank god he got that right). So IMO before we had the latest referendum, we had the best of both words with respect to trade and maintaining our own currency. We are now going to throw away the trade element and move into the total unknown of WTO (if we get a Hard Brexit, which is looking increasingly likely), for which we have made little preparation and for which we have no agreements of any substance lined up (WTF has Liam Fox been doing?). The Brexit referendum was primarily won on the issue of immigration which has not been in the headlines since i.e. a series of scare stories. Again IMO, It was not run on the economic benefits / or lack of because they were unknown and are still unknown. Was Theresa May a good prime minister - No - Was she as bad as some have made out - No - She had an impossible task as IFH states. Importantly IMO May did try and do right by the country i.e. she had an altruistic approach We now probably have Boris to look forward to (again IMO), a self serving, ill-informed opportunist who is likely going to go the Brexit populist route (remember Boris was pro EU when he was mayor of London). I am a Brit? (ex pat Scot living in England and Wales for 40 years ). I am a Remainer, I think the ties with the EU and the european powers via the EU are are in the UK's best interests and won't be improved on by any new WTO deals. However, I also do think the Euro is a disaster waiting to happen. I do think a significant proportion of the EU Commission dream of living in a European Federalist Cloud Cuckoo Land that will never come to pass.
    • DS
      David S.
      14 June 2019 @ 17:52
      Peter J. - Thanks for your comments I would like to see more Brits give their thoughts for the rest of us to better understand the situation on the ground. DLS
    • SB
      Stephen B.
      14 June 2019 @ 17:53
      Also as a Brit, i would disagree with you on several points. Firstly, we need to understand that the EU was never about "free trade". It was about building a tariff barrier around Europe. I for one recall the devastating effect our decision to join the (then) Common Market had on Australia and New Zealand agriculture production (to give just one example) with us Brits thereafter forced to buy (much more expensive) French agricultural products. Secondly, on PM May, one can have different viewpoints on her competency (in negotiations and elsewhere) but one cannot be indifferent to the fact that she serially and willfully lied to Parliament and the country as to her intentions. That is why she is viewed as the worst PM. Thirdly, out of the 17 million votes in favor of leaving the EU, i am sure that there are as many reasons for so voting. For many, it was primarily about sovereignity and free trade, not immigration. I, for one, was always pro EU until the Greek debt renegotiations, when the true nature of the EU revealed itself. The way that the EU has conducted itself during the Article 50 negotiations has only reinforced that view. As Groucho Marx famously telegraphed "PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT PEOPLE LIKE ME AS A MEMBER".
  • TJ
    Terry J.
    13 June 2019 @ 12:58
    I think Dee and Irene need to have the scales removed from their eyes. They are in denial on Brexit much like the cosy unelected elite who run Brussless. A 52% to 48% referendum result may sound like a split country, but can I politely removed them that in a democracy it is a majority. Sadly the UK government has decided (probably at the behest of the powerful business elite who provide them with crony roles post their parliamentary careers) that they know better than us the people they supposedly represent as to what is good for us. The recent European election results showed that if anything the appetite to leave the failed EU model is stronger than ever with the UK electorate, so I can understand Dee clutching at straws and suggesting that maybe instead of a second referendum the EU and UK governments might decide to revoke Article 52! Ha! Ha! That would not surprise me at all but it won't matter because eventually there will have to be a national election, and I think the cosy club of Europe will be shocked at just how much support the Brexit Party has acquired in a very little period of time. I fully understand why the powers that be in Brussels, Paris and Berlin are trembling, because they know that when the UK finally manages to escape their clutches, and shows how much better economically they can do without EU shackles, the whole EU experiment will simply implode and not before time! Britain on the other hand will finally have control of its borders, its courts of justice, and perhaps most importantly its fiscal budget and no longer have to provide huge subsidies to the EU in return for less freedom! It may not be for a while yet but when it comes the whole world will be better for it. My bet is that Italy won't be far behind!
  • PN
    Philip N.
    13 June 2019 @ 12:43
    I am left thinking that in 50 years or so, this video could be played in universities to show why populism happened. Their contempt for ordinary people is almost palpable. At worst May actively worked hand in glove with the EU to harm her nation to punish the peasants for daring to vote wrong. At best she is a complete incompetent who was taken to school by EU negotiators. The big problem with that, shockingly parliamentarians did their jobs and represented the people that elected them. LOL, if they want to see real populism try having a second, or third or forth referendum. Governments tampering with media, what was Operation Mockingbird about again? Calling the AfD Nazis. It is literally the “Everyone I don’t like is Hitler” meme. The big danger to the British. The bankers might be harmed. You couldn’t’ make this stuff up. Back to, we should just have referendums until the peasants do what their betters want them to do. I guess it worked in Ireland. Now it is time to smear the Yellow Vest protesters. Oh good news. They are putting in safety nets to ensure the banks are OK. My criticisms aside I am very happy to see this here. It is a nice insight into why so many decisions that are harmful to ordinary people are being made. I went with a thumbs up.
    • PU
      Peter U.
      13 June 2019 @ 12:55
      totally agree. well said
  • DL
    David L.
    13 June 2019 @ 12:12
    The whole discussion seemed to be from a very globalist perspective. There were many particular points that I personally would have disagreed with. Actually could have been an extension of Dee Smith's World on the Brink series, which I didn't much care for either.
  • SS
    Steve S.
    13 June 2019 @ 11:25
    How can you have a real genuine unbiased discussion about Brexit without a Brit? Real Vision, shame on you for this interview. You could have at least had Raoul or Grant do the interview (to give the British perspective)
    • PJ
      Peter J.
      13 June 2019 @ 14:04
      I like Dee, but I agree the interview would have been better with Grant or Raoul
    • DS
      David S.
      13 June 2019 @ 21:05
      Maybe we should have someone from Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales also. Dee did a great job. If Raoul or Grant would like to do an additional interview that would be great too. Besides, where would you find a genuine unbiased Brit? DLS
  • PU
    Peter U.
    13 June 2019 @ 10:56
    really having a difficult time listening to the spin spewing out of Dee's mouth!
  • PU
    Peter U.
    13 June 2019 @ 10:47
    unbalanced at a minimum, very biased IMO.
  • CH
    Charles H.
    13 June 2019 @ 10:27
    Two non-Brits staring down their noses at the British electorate, while cheering the unrepresentative EU.
    • PL
      Pete L.
      13 June 2019 @ 15:09
      .
    • Av
      Ad v.
      13 June 2019 @ 18:40
      Nationalists are a funny breed. Going to establish new Global Britain™/ can't handle two Americans talking about Brexit.
  • ZM
    Zac M.
    13 June 2019 @ 09:02
    While I find usually find Dees observations insightful watching two Americans discuss a largely British issue was uncomfortable. There are several distinctions they didn’t seem to be aware of: 1. Schengen and free movement. Schengen is effectively a passport control zone, and the UK is not part of this. Free movement is the ability for any EU citizen to work in any other EU state, the UK is and has been part of this since inception. 2. Culturally few people, other than second generation migrants, consider themselves to be British. We generally consider ourselves to be English, Welsh, Scottish or (Northern) Irish. Where people consider themselves British, this will usually form part of a dual identity (eg British Indian, British Nigerian). There has been little loss of distinct identity within the UK despite the first Act of Union being signed in 1535 - https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/articles/ethnicityandnationalidentityinenglandandwales/2012-12-11#geographic-distribution-for-national-identity 3. There seems to be an assumption on the part of both that immigrants from the Empire would be automatically accepted in the UK. Apart from the term Empire being a bit of an anachronism (we’ve used the term Commonwealth since 1926) this ignores the distinction outlined by Rob Ford in “Acceptable and Unacceptable Immigrants” (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1369183X.2011.572423) that culture is what influences opinion on whether migrants are acceptable. We’re more likely to accept those from the Old Commonwealth (Australia, New Zealand, Canada) than the New Commonwealth (formerly occupied African, Asian nations). Whether this clouded their overall judgement I’m not sure, but this video left me feeling they were talking about issues they didn’t fully understand. Not least of all because I think broadly people feel unable to express their fears about identity without being labelled racist and Brexit is just an outlet for these concerns. The secondary issue of a country shifting from 94.1% White British in 1991, to 87.4% in 2001 and 80.5% in 2011 in terms of social cohesion is another issue (see the Casey Review 2016, or Eric Kaufmann for more on that).
  • SR
    Steve R.
    13 June 2019 @ 09:01
    Comes across as a total 'Remainer' spouting the standard remainer mantra of Hard Brexit 'will be a disaster'. IMHO, Hard Brexit is probably the best solution, not the worst.
    • DS
      David S.
      13 June 2019 @ 21:08
      Since I believe that commerce will find a way, I agree with a Hard Brexit. Anything else will just end up doing nothing. PM May tried but Brussels and Parliament did not want to help at all. DLS
    • WM
      Will M.
      15 June 2019 @ 19:03
      Anything but a hard Brexit will be a disaster. The EU are probably not going to yield much more. I personally think the UK is too evenly split to make a supportable decision. I voted to join the EU in the 70s because I felt a United Europe would have more sway and huge benefit. Little did I know the bureaucracy would soar and it would become a center left organization. The Euro is a financial disaster waiting to happen. I no longer live in the UK and believe my home country Scots who are in favor of independence are delusional. However that too is likely to come to pass due to the falling educational standards associated with teaching history in schools.
  • SR
    Steve R.
    13 June 2019 @ 08:11
    Sorry, but Mrs May was NOT a good Home Secretary! She was one of the worst Home Secretaries the country has had, and will now go down in history as the worst Prime Minister the UK has ever had, period.
    • SS
      Steve S.
      13 June 2019 @ 11:32
      @Steve. As a Brit myself, I have never had any of my British friends say that Mrs May was a good Home Secretary. I would go as far to say 99%+ would say she was a total disaster and she WILL go down as the worst Prime Minister the UK has ever had.
    • SS
      Steve S.
      13 June 2019 @ 11:34
      Its also worth mentioning that Mrs.May was never elected to be British Prime Minster by the public, she was instated because David Cameron resigned. And now, Mrs.May has resigned and another Conservative Leader, most likely Boris Johnson will be Prime Minister without being voted in by the public. What a joke.
    • DS
      David S.
      13 June 2019 @ 21:27
      Steve S. - Sounds like an echo chamber to me. DLS
    • AD
      Alistair D.
      14 June 2019 @ 10:14
      She may not even be the UK's worst Prime Minister in 2019!
  • DF
    Dominic F.
    13 June 2019 @ 07:57
    What a witty standup. May was a good Home Secretry! Cut police numbers. Caused Windrush. Cut stop and search. As prime minister said one think did something else. Should have mentioned May is a record breaker, current holder of biggest defeat in Commons. Look forward to seeing May on Strictly come dancing perhaps parterned by Tusk in that special place.
    • DS
      David S.
      13 June 2019 @ 21:28
      Any recent PM that you like? DLS
    • WM
      Will M.
      15 June 2019 @ 18:54
      Thatcher.....
  • ZM
    Zac M.
    13 June 2019 @ 06:29
    I’d love to see a video with Eric Kaufmann alongside Malgram, Raul, Dee or Grant etc to see how his views on demographic shift (and how they feed into populism) intersect with a recessionary economy.
    • tr
      tom r.
      14 June 2019 @ 22:20
      More dribble between liberal educators and elites which is the most massive problem of the day in most developed countries. Between fake news controlled by elites and the majority of uber liberal educators infecting our high schools and colleges I have little hope for the young or uninformed. It seems like their is more polarization every day. Until some balance is re established, it will just continue downhill. They brought up nothing about the real immigration problems plaguing so many developed countries. These countries open their borders and give immigrants more rights than their own citizens. It's pretty obvious that elites and liberal politicians only want to keep importing the desperate and uneducated for their votes. Very sad. I can only hope Real Visions standards rise back up to where they used to be.