The Future of Crypto Investment

Featuring Dan Morehead, Joey Krug

Dan Morehead and Joey Krug of the blockchain investment fund Pantera Capital sit down with Michael Green of Thiel Macro. The group explores the current state of cryptocurrency, blockchain technology, and the current investment environment. In addition, Morehead and Krug look ahead to the future of distributed ledger technology to explore how smart contracts will create value for users and investors by reducing transaction costs and eliminating middlemen. Filmed on May 22, 2018 in San Francisco.

Published on
8 June, 2018
Bitcoin, Technology, Investment Framework
60 minutes
Asset class


  • pc

    paulo c.

    11 11 2018 16:19

    0       0

  • LC

    Lloyd C.

    28 7 2018 07:41

    0       0

    ethereum will most likely scale to thousands of transactions per second by the end of 2018 with plasma.

  • PT

    Patrick T.

    23 7 2018 02:55

    0       0

    Visa processes on average 1,700 transactions per second with the capability of up to 24,000 per second. In comparison, Bitcoin (BTC) capacity is 7 transactions per second. It appears Bitcoin is not scalable. Maybe Eos (EOS) with a capability of 50,000 transactions per second is more long term viable. Possible EOS and RIPPLE are worthy of small bets with potential of 1000X return on original investment due to scalability.

  • RK

    Robert K.

    29 6 2018 08:30

    0       0

    @ 29.06.2018: With BTC < $6K I would pay money to see these guys mumbling again.

  • TJ

    Tracy J.

    19 6 2018 13:53

    0       0

    Portfolio perspective is super important.

  • MY

    Michael Y.

    15 6 2018 23:05

    0       0

    I'm a fan of blockchain technology. But I don't buy that an anonymous ledger, even if it's a written ledger, is actually a deterrent for criminal behavior. Anyone else?

  • bs

    bob s.

    14 6 2018 18:32

    0       1


  • MF

    Michael F.

    13 6 2018 20:35

    2       3

    Mike Green is so negative on cryptocurrency that it sours all the interviews by him. Can he have a more neutral standpoint in the interviews so that he can engage in discussion from a neutral instead of negative position? Topics focused on drugs and money laundering is very 2013 of him.

  • AC

    Andrew C.

    13 6 2018 16:17

    0       0

    Sorry for being ignorant, but if bitcoin has the historical records for forensic accounting (block chain), how can some users get robbed of their bitcoin without recourse? Stolen wallets should be easily recovered

  • MB

    Matthias B.

    12 6 2018 15:59

    1       0

    very interesting arguments on the Visa/Mastercard situation; these two companies profit so strongly from the oligopolistic market structure which gives them annuity returns, high FCF yields thus have become stock market darlings. would be great to get more info whether these companies can be disrupted in what time frame (soon or long patience required). I would not mind very soon disruption...; out of curiosity, in Switzerland, someone wants to bring the land/title register on to the blockchain, a move which I would view very positively. are there any similar moves elsewhere?

  • BK

    Brian K.

    11 6 2018 15:59

    2       0

    I like Mike Greens quote of viewing a nations currency as its equity.

  • KS

    Kathleen S.

    11 6 2018 12:51

    9       1

    It is when the next financial crisis happens and people are locked out of their bank accounts that they will see the power of crypto and bitcoin (think Greece and Cyprus). Outside of precious metals there is no other escape from the corrupt debt based fractional reserve monetary system the world is trapped in -- Also, there are like 3 billion people in the world that are unbanked -- that alone should get someone to take 1 percent of their net worth into crypto -- the risk reward is insane. As far as the criminal activity in bitcoin LOL!!! OMG banks have committed more fraud and crimes and nothing happens to them. Under federal and state laws known as civil forfeiture, police can seize cash or property if they suspect it's tied to an illegal activity even if the property owner isn't charged with a crime -- Supreme Court has upheld this. I am sorry I do not trust governments (who in their right mind would) and am glad there is a place I can hold some of my wealth outside of their reach.

  • SR

    Steve R.

    11 6 2018 09:51

    0       7

    Yet another bitcoin hack:

  • PD

    Paul D.

    11 6 2018 07:49

    4       0

    Bitcoin is doing EXACTLY what is did since the late 2013 high. It drops 70%, rallies 100% then drops's heading to $2,800.

    Don't take my word for it, have a look at the charts now and then.

    Same play, new actors.

  • PS

    Paul S.

    11 6 2018 02:43

    4       0

    Solving problems that don't exist, oh and we expect it to be hacked... awesome

    Valued at $360m apparently - a touch less than Dogecoin, a crypto based on a meme

  • AG

    Andrew G.

    11 6 2018 00:04

    5       0

    Hey RV, could we maybe do a bit more of a technical/tradable look at crypto next? This along with John Burbank's section was very general discussion with rehashed netscape/internet analogies, removing middle men which offer nothing new. Focus is always on the transaction coins (admittedly there was more on smart contracts here) but what about other industries for blockchain: decentralized data, personal data, computing power, energy, supply chain etc?
    Thanks for all the great work and love the new style!

  • HO

    H2 O.

    10 6 2018 21:01

    5       0

    I have been a crypto skeptic and don't really buy the "new asset class" argument. But this is not going to develop in a linear fashion. It is going to explode in terms of use when certain enabling conditions are met. Too important to write it off. Even if these discussions don't have much that is revelatory to the well informed on the subject, they still provide clues as to directions to follow for derivative trades that are a function of the disruption ahead.

  • PG

    Philippe G.

    10 6 2018 16:05

    5       0

    Always great to hear different ideas, opinions, and back-and-forth like this, especially on the topic of cryptocurrencies and Blockchain technologies.

  • TA

    Trevor A.

    10 6 2018 08:57

    3       0

    I enjoyed this interview. One growing use case for assets on blockchains is the tokenization of scarce digital assets in video game economies. This use case makes game items into digital bearer assets. World of Warcraft gold was an early example of this concept but blockchains are enabling the concept to grow even further. Digital game items and currencies potentially have value if game curators can manage supply effectively and there is sufficient demand for scarce game items/currencies from users. This has already started with in-game item purchases for games such as Fortnite. The next frontier to monetize in-game item purchases is to tokenize game items that can be used with third-party platforms. This is happening in an inefficient manner today with the CS:GO game skin gambling economy. I know it sounds wild but a google search will show this use case is potentially worth billions of dollars.

    The main value of cryptocurrency is capital flight. I think Bitcoin and Monero will be the big winners. Satoshi Nakamoto put the following message in the genesis block of Bitcoin:: "The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks." Central banks have created conditions and sentiment that allowed Bitcoin to bootstrap. Without extreme monetary policy Bitcoin likely never reaches a critical mass. Bitcoin and Gold are complementary assets because multisig wallets will reduce counterparty risk.

  • ET

    Eduard T.

    10 6 2018 08:12

    3       0

    great interview. Thanks RV

  • JR

    Jeremy R.

    10 6 2018 06:10

    6       0

    I love Mr. G interviews! The way he thinks about the world is so fascinating. He needs to get his own segment like Grant! Keep up the great work!

  • TH

    Timo H.

    10 6 2018 04:19

    6       7

    It is completely possible, that cryptocurrencies don't have any value in 5 years.

  • SR

    Steve R.

    10 6 2018 01:12

    2       2

    Michael made a very valid point regarding the 70%+ (and growing) concentration of miners being in China. A point that has significance going forward, and yet one that both Joey and Dan conveniently glossed over.

  • my

    moy y.

    9 6 2018 20:49

    1       2

    Dear RV, would like to hear which ICO or blockchain project or token/crypto Mr. Pal thinks has potential.

  • EL

    Eugene L.

    9 6 2018 17:28

    2       0

    I absolutely appreciate how thoughtful Michael and Dan are. Joey is cool too. Thanks RV!

  • MT

    Mike T.

    9 6 2018 15:10

    2       2

    always interesting to learn, but right now in the present day my $0.02 yesterday /BTC Futures did 1300 contracts for the entire day and /XBT just under 2000 contracts and with no Options market either at the moment looks like there's only negligible 'real money' at work, but if that were to change in the future........

    Until we see serious liquidity not the place to be focusing on to make money and that's what were all here for isn't it?

  • KJ

    Kulbir J.

    9 6 2018 11:58

    5       0

    I really would have loved their opinions on Hashgraph, the supposed 'Blockchain Killer'

  • IB

    Ian B.

    9 6 2018 10:09

    7       6

    Please do more interviews like this, I cannot ignore the number of high profile finance professionals moving across to crypto and DLT companies. Seems like this is a once in a 1000 year opportunity

  • DW

    Daniel W.

    9 6 2018 09:22

    3       0

    A question to everybody out there who knows more about cryptos and blockchain than I do (so basically everybody...): is there actually a real life application for cryptos for Joe Sixpack who does not live in a 3rd world country? I owned bitcoin at some point and it was a pain in the a.. to make any use of them. So, is there something nowerdays which would make my life easier if I used cryptos? Answers very much appreciated.

  • KJ

    Kulbir J.

    9 6 2018 08:34

    11       1

    Mike Green and Grant Williams are the best interviewers on Real Vision.

  • MS

    Mark S.

    9 6 2018 05:46

    4       0

    Do a lot more interviews like this!

  • KS

    Kim S.

    9 6 2018 05:30

    2       0

    good interview. not my choice of investment but I appreciate the perspective

  • RI

    R I.

    9 6 2018 03:10

    9       5

    Michael Green is smart. Not sure about the other guys.

  • SI

    Sundar I.

    9 6 2018 00:20

    4       0

    Excellent interview. With Michael asking all the perfect spot on questions, its amazing how the world is just shifting right before our eyes. keep up the excellent work RV. As always enjoyed this video as well.

  • RP

    Ryan P.

    8 6 2018 23:22

    1       4

    I'm surprised XRP (ripple) didn't come up during the cross-border payment discussion. Great interview, keep the crypto content coming!

  • TJ

    Terry J.

    8 6 2018 23:13

    9       2

    Great to get an update on this new asset class. I think any of us who ignore or dismiss cryptos are potentially missing a huge opportunity. As Dan says the risk reward is assymetric so why would anybody with a pragmatic attitude to investment not have at least a minimal exposure? Unfortunately too many people are happy to buy the negative propoganda of yesterday's winners like Jamie Dimon and Charlie Munger for whom the answer to the question of will bitcoin go to zero or a million will never matter! For most of the rest of us, we want to listen to the pros and cons of the narrative. Thanks RVTV for giving this important new asset class airtime. I would welcome more informative videos like this on cryptos.

  • PM

    Plan M.

    8 6 2018 22:25

    9       3

    Mike Novogratz on Cryptocurrencies by Bloomberg: helps to state what should be can you rationally not allocate at least a single digit percentage of your portfolio to a technology (blockchain) that has proveable working models that once scaled have massive disruption capabilities to financial markets, consumer markets, et al. The asymmetric potential is historic. Position size your investments and participate. Outstanding interview and Michael is the man for the interviewing job...Morehead and Krug are the spokesman for crypto state of the union addresses. Well done RV.

  • MM

    Mak M.

    8 6 2018 18:53

    8       0

    Real Vision thank you for this interview!

  • PT

    Patrick T.

    8 6 2018 18:35

    2       0

    TZERO ? (OSTK)

  • SS

    Sam S.

    8 6 2018 18:30

    12       0

    Now that I've listened/watched the interview, pretty much believe we've been provided an incredible amount of information and a better understanding of crypto and blockchain. So much is concept and mental understanding vs something we can hold in our hands and connect the dots. I'm impressed with all of it and all of them.

  • KD

    Kevin D.

    8 6 2018 18:18

    4       16

    Oh boy.... Let me channel Mr. Miyagi: "walk on right side of road, fine. Walk on left side of road, fine. Walk in middle of road, splat!" This interview was middle of road, with nothing we haven't heard a dozen times already, offering frankly very little for crypto 'newbies' or crypto 'veterans', or even those who think crypto is crap. Just a big tub of vanilla ice cream, with no actionable questions or information in any of those directions. This could have been on the 'Today' show.

  • SS

    Sam S.

    8 6 2018 17:20

    3       0

    With all the comments by RV subscribers and Mr. Pal asking everyone to be open minded, I now read the comments and replies FIRST before listening to the interview. Seems to work for an open perspective no matter how it goes.

  • MC

    Minum C.

    8 6 2018 16:52

    5       26

    Yuck! Yet another crypto currency discussion. I wonder what percentage of RV watchers are active participants in the crypto currency market? More Grant Williams please.

  • CC

    Christopher C.

    8 6 2018 16:09

    22       1

    I don't know where this is going to go. And let me let you in on a little secret. Neither do you. One thing I know to be true, that has played out throughout history over and over across several different landscapes, be it political, economic, science and technology, etc is the following... It only takes about .00001% percent of the RIGHT part of the population to get on board with an idea whose time has come. ( 1.) The colonies should declare independence from Great Britain (The American Revolution) , 2.) Free men should not be able to be imprisoned or whimsically taxed by the king (The Magna Carta) 3.) Powered flight is possible (The Wright Brothers, etc) 4.) Racial discrimination should not be supported by the state (Martin Luther King) 4.) The Catholic Church is not only not infallible, but is corrupt and we need to split from it (Martin Luther) 5.) It is stupid to build a rocket, launch it, and then crash into the ocean (Elon Musk) etc. etc. etc. All that being said I think I can make the following statement with absolute confidence. *** Given the perceived injustice and full display of avarice perpetrated by the global central banks, the banking/finance guild/medical guild (to include healthcare, insurance, drug companies etc), the global political class, and the amount of leverage/debt and soon to be unfulfilled social contract promises and the corresponding counterparty risk/chain of custody issues AND given the GLOBAL talent pool that is lining up behind ico's/blockchain in all its use cases to think that revolutionary change is not only possible but imminent would seem very likely to be a suckers bet. It is worth keeping in mind that MOST of the rational sounding population will dismiss this idea out of hand. People that are "rational' in a fucked up world are in effect the radicals and mean reversion both illustrates this in hindsight, and prunes their belief systems and all the structures and constructs that those flawed belief systems were supporting from existence. The current global situation seems to be very near full term pregnant with crisis and opportunity.

  • MC

    Mike C.

    8 6 2018 15:44

    8       2

    Great interview. Please have Dan and Joey back in 6 months. Really looking forward to it...

  • NG

    Nick G.

    8 6 2018 14:48

    7       0

    I don't understand it. Any of it. For every statement they make, I have 100s of residual questions. I guess I am just too old. I probably will never understand, even if I sat down with the greatest experts for days.

    But one thing they said makes perfect sense. It is an incredibly asymmetric vehicle. Put 1% of NAV and forget about it. Look again in a year. Add as/if necessary.

  • EL

    Elizabeth L.

    8 6 2018 14:29

    12       3

    Respectfully, just a reminder to MR Robert K., please be respectful to those who contribute their time to RV to provide us information. We as subscribers truly appreciate the generosity of our contributors. Thank you.

  • DB

    David B.

    8 6 2018 14:26

    16       1

    I strongly disagree with what Robert & Brian posted. I have been following the crypto / blockchain space for 4 years and investing in it for nearly 3 years. I am seeing enormous amounts of financial & human capital, investor interest and passion flood this industry. Unless you are seeing the amount of work going on behind the scenes, it is easy to dismiss this stuff as frivolous or even "rat poison". However, Jamie Dimon just said that technology is the #1 threat to JP Morgan. The technology he is thinking about is blockchain / crypto. To borrow a quote from twitter, crypto is rat poison and the banks are the rats. Ignore this space at your own peril.

  • RK

    Robert K.

    8 6 2018 13:34

    20       24

    I am fed up by this crypto babies. We had a lucky run and made some funny money on this mania but it's time to fade this.

    The marginal cost of creating digital assets is 0 (zero). That's approximately the correct value of most of the cryptos.
    Some of the majors like bitcoin indeed have value due to the existing infrastructure and penetration allowing to buy your drugs or funnel money out of banana republics.

    Investing in crypto currencies is the equivalent of saying let's invest in money in the real economy (who invests in '"money")?
    If you say not bitcoin but blockchain I say to you yeah it's like saying internet is cool let's invest in the HTTP protocol. Complete nonsense.
    Crypto technologies age fast as hell and the new thing kills the old thing in days - good luck picking the survivors or putting your wealth in this.

  • BK

    Brian K.

    8 6 2018 13:33

    17       14

    We will look back at these times as textbook examples of Financial folly