Tim Draper’s Crypto-Centric World View

Published on
November 23rd, 2018
Duration
59 minutes

Tim Draper’s Crypto-Centric World View

The Interview ·
Featuring Tim Draper

Published on: November 23rd, 2018 • Duration: 59 minutes

Outspoken bitcoin bull and noted Silicon Valley investor Tim Draper joins Thiel Macro’s Mike Green for a discussion on how the worlds of venture capital and crypto are colliding. The two investors also discuss crypto's potential impact on fiat currency, and the ways in which new rules and regulations could alter the future of trading. Filmed on November 1, 2018 at World Crypto Con in Las Vegas.

Comments

  • GW
    GERALD W.
    16 May 2019 @ 22:36
    I'm amazed that Mr. Draper was able to get through this interview. Mr. Green was obviously antagonistic to either Mr. Draper/his views or both. Mr. Green commented that he would like another interview. Can't imagine that's going to happen anytime soon.
  • CT
    CHRISTIAN T.
    28 February 2019 @ 00:21
    Watched this a while ago had to go back after watching mr Green in different interview. This was a great opportunity to swing the bat vs. a lunatic bull who makes no sense and get him to come up with some facts instead of intangible mumbo jumbo. An opportunity missed, unfortunately.
  • YY
    Ys Y.
    13 January 2019 @ 10:30
    Very general and idealistic view of crypto. Not much depth. Anything by Mike Novogratz is much better
  • IO
    Indi O.
    31 December 2018 @ 22:25
    "Because it's better." Indeed. Great interview. I understand why you had to focus so much on BTC for the time limitation, as it would be too much to undertake to discuss crypto in general. But to point out the utility for another situation, let me share a crypto story with you that's not about BTC. I think all the readers here on RV are well aware of the currency catastrophe taking place in Venezuela right now that has created a humanitarian crisis. Perhaps like me you've desired to be of some help to the people there. Yet how? Well we could try donating to charities, but then keep in mind the $500 million donated to the Red Cross after the earthquake in Haiti that results in a sum total of only 6 permanent houses being built. And that's without a Maduro in place. You could try to find poor individuals living there and if successful use Western Union to send them funds even though they may not have bank accounts. You'd need to send large enough amounts to make the amount sent larger than the fee for sending it, so say $30 each for a total of $50 each. So if you've go in total $100 you can donate, you can help 3 families. They will get the money within a few days, during which time inflation is likely to be about 100%. (Similar if they have bank accounts and you use SWIFT to send a bank wire.) Or you can do what I did this Christmas. I went on a site called Steemit where the cryptocurrency is called STEEM. I searched for the content tag "Venezuela" that a lot of people from there use to tag their articles, illustrations, videos, music and other content they create for that blockchain. I looked in their wallets (all public) and saw just how broke they in fact were. I then sent a month's wages to 40 people/families. They each received it within 2 minutes and could withdraw it to spend immediately. It cost me a total of $60. This is the future of charity. This is the future of money. (If you really want to learn about the gears of bitcoin and how it fits into the global monetary system, read the excellent book by Saifedean Ammous called The Bitcoin Standard. It's the foundation all crypto conversations should start with so as to avoid wasting time.)
  • HH
    HODL H.
    21 December 2018 @ 06:05
    Cliff notes version: Tim Drapers Grandpa was pretty rich, he ran the Marshall plan, gave his son Bill Draper Jr (Yale Grad and Skull & Bones member) ~1.5mm in 1959 equity capital and ~3mm in SBiC capital to start his own venture fund DGA and then Bill JR started Sutter Hill. Bill was the first investor in Skype and claims it as his best investment (see link below). Tim came along for the ride and seems to have done well in Tesla. He backed Elizabeth Holmes fraud and some others. His returns and fiduciary treatment of investors was lacking (see Forbes link below) . He also seemed to tolerate his partners Steve Jurvetson behavior until Jurvetson was pushed out after Draper left. Was their performance riding the SV bubble waves as can be seen in the lacers.org link Or was it the astute insight to pile on in Skype and Tesla (Steve Jurvetson was driving force behind DFJ in Tesla and SpaceX) https://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0112/066.html http://lacers.org/aboutlacers/board/BoardDocs/2016/Board/2016-02-23/IV-F%20-%20INVESTMENTS%20-%20DFJ%20Venture%20XII.pdf There should be a real vision rule that you ask people about the frauds they endorsed and continue to endorse besides the overwhelming amount evidence that shows they are frauds....see Theranos and Tesla. Tim continues to be a cheerleader for Elon Musk and supports Tesla despite the fraudulent behavior of its founder... It’s much easier to espouse radical investment ideas like bitcoin or social experiments like splitting California when your position of wealth, privilege and PR-purchased-media blitzes are a result of your fathers and grandfathers success. Also given the recent revelations from the Senate report on Russian influence in the campaign...did Draper have any help from Troll farms, Cambridge Analytica or other Billionaire social influence consultants that helped push his idea for California? Sad that RV only indulges Bitcoin and doesn’t ask tough questions Tim Drapers defense of Holmes 1 https://www.axios.com/tim-draper-keeps-defending-theranos-1513299953-eadf43f6-1803-422c-8869-f55d86844d6b.html Tim Drapers defense of Holmes 2 https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2018/06/19/vc-tim-draper-sticks-with-elizabeth-holmes-says.html Musk interview https://youtu.be/o4hKTh13V-4 Tims father, Bill Draper, was the early investor in Skype and claims it as his best investment ever...then Tim came along for the ride... Let’s also not forget Bill Drapers roots...his dad was a key architect of the Marshall Plan, he comes from Old Money...he was part of Skull and Bone’s. Bill helped found his VC fund with $150k of family and ~300k from the SBIC Interview about Skype https://www.entrepreneurmag.co.za/advice/funding/venture-capital/when-gareth-cliff-met-bill-draper-the-first-skype-funder/ Bill Draper Hour long talk to Stanford https://youtu.be/QqwKuKKWiJ4 Early VC History https://www.scaruffi.com/politics/arun3.html
  • SH
    Stephen H.
    15 December 2018 @ 06:04
    Michael is an excellent speaker and interviewer, with such an interesting topic Mr Draper’s comments were articulated wrapped in a monologue of “the Futures is here”, “all change is good” and sadly the reasoning was akin the a discussion which ends “because it is”. Little real consideration as Michael mentioned for the transition from A to B, which is key and zero consideration for the social impact of new technological deployment. I expected a lot more thought leadership, however this in itself is telling and provides a really useful datapoint.
  • SH
    Steve H.
    12 December 2018 @ 17:14
    I thought this would be the lucid comments of a sophisticated venture capitalist but he sounded more like a 30-year-old cheerleader for bitcoin. 🙄
  • VE
    Viktor E.
    7 December 2018 @ 20:20
    I enjoyed he interview. Draper had some solid points but almost all VCs ,with their move fast and break things and shotgun approach, have a hard time grasping Bitcoin. It's a growth currency if anything, not a company. You can't bet on 50 cryptocurrencies and hope for the best. Mike Green is obviously a crazy smart guy. But it's obvious that he don't understand how Bitcoin works. That's the problem, the critique s always the same low level stuff. Bitcoin has issues and is hard to grasp. It's a complex combination of a peer to peer network, computer science, cryptography and social rules. The skeptics will never take the time to fully understand it and come forward with thoughtful critique The main issue for Mr Green seems to be the distribution. It's important to realize that every Bitcoin created has been created on a free market. Everyone had the same opportunity to create new bitcoin. The first miners mined for a loss for 2 years when Bitcoin was only a small experiment. That still doesn't mean that someone with 10 000 BTC has more power than a guy with 0,001 BTC. If both run a full node and validate their transaction they are both equal. That's not the way our fiatsystems work. To answer some of the most common critique with 1 or 2 sentences: Quantum computers will break Bitcoin: Quantum computers are only theoretical at the moment. Bitcoin private keys are protected by 128 bit ECDSA signatures PLUS a 256 bit hashfunction. PoW wastes energy: The gain of sound money for society is larger than the cost of a few % of the worlds energy consumption. PoW of work will seek out the cheapest energy sources (eg mostly stranded renewable energy) Forks dilute the supply: You can't use forks on the Bitcoin network. It's like saying that the Zimbabwe dollar would dilute the US-dollar. Transactions are to slow: You could build Visa or Mastercard on top of Bitcoin today. More existing is the trustless lightning network that's up and running (confirmations in 1 sec, no limit on transactions/s) Fidelity, Bakkt and Van Eck wouldn't be building solutions for Bitcoin if it wasn't interesting. And a final word. Don't listen to Eric Townsend. He obviously tries to leverage his 20 year old tech knowledge. His critique is riddled with flaws (he thinks Mike Hearn invented blockchains, wtf?). He comes of as nothing but a charlatan. I lost all respect. Hope I didn't come of as an asshole, cheers!
    • AL
      Alex L.
      8 December 2018 @ 22:25
      That's a pretty hyperbolic view to take on a guy that disagrees with your opinion. Really? A charlatan? I think it is too early to claim that Bitcoin is guaranteed to be the winner. I myself am skeptical that the whole blockchain technology will be the be-all end-all method of choice.
  • JS
    James S.
    4 December 2018 @ 23:45
    I know venture guys are out always dreamers, but Mr Draper seems to be in Colorado or Canada, not Vegas. what percent of his ventures pan out again? We can't even get voter ids and you think people will submit to block chain style tracking of welfare or other programs? His smugness is just astounding. Half of regulation is to try to protect less than smart people from being ripped off and or or from doing none headed things. I don't believe any technology is forever hack proof (quantum computing the keys), he is from silicon valley right? People can't even lock down their home routers or computers. We will get crypto but it will be issued by your goverment the way Infis did it. Mr Green was rather soft on Draper, obviously there was not going to be any rational push back. I found myself waiting for the next ridiculous claim that bitcoin is going to solve and I was never disappointed. Sorry but purely a fluff piece.
    • FK
      Faizan K.
      6 December 2018 @ 16:19
      What percent of venture would you expect to pan out? That's the name of the game, high risk, asymmetrical investments with high reward potential. You also seem to not be looking forward enough. With a self-defeating mindset like yours, we wouldn't build anything new and remain status-quo. Draper is far from a top VC, but none of your criticisms are even cogent. I agree this technology is not hack-proof in the quantum computing era, which we're not in right now. Technology is about stepping stones. It will be hack-proof in the interim, which is needed, as we see more hacks coming (Starwood, Quora, Equifax, Facebook, etc). Why wouldn't you want more secure systems until the quantum era? Why are you once again self-defeating and a self-fulfilling prophecy? Once the quantum-era is here, there will be quantum-resistant technologies. Will you doubt those too? "Government-issued crypto" is an oxymoron. Currencies are already largely digital. State currencies do not need to be cryptocurrencies--it defeats the entire purpose of the underlying technology. There will be a demand for a global currency that is not operated by a single government that can be used as a settlement layer internationally. Sounds like you're absolutely clueless when it comes to technology... which reminds me of the same cynical bunch that mocked the internet 20-30 years ago.
  • CR
    Chris R.
    4 December 2018 @ 22:32
    thats what 100x in 2.5years does to your brain, or ripple holders 700x in 1year (the result of the latter can be witnessed on twitter right now)
  • DV
    Dimitri V.
    2 December 2018 @ 07:21
    gotta say I agree with Draper on CA governance lol
  • MM
    Mak M.
    29 November 2018 @ 22:36
    Mr. Green is obvious against bitcoin and crypto, can you just hide it a little bit. Also you have an opinion about something that you haven't even try it. I also made these mistakes in the past, please don't do that, in order to become a better self. Thank you Mr.Draper for this interview
  • GS
    Gunnar S.
    28 November 2018 @ 17:49
    Bitcoin is governed by users (full nodes) incentives. Mr. Green does not know anything about bitcoin.. 32 million... He comes off as a clueless statist fighting a global social revolution in tech, money and governance. Mr Draper is the big thinker here.
    • GS
      Gunnar S.
      28 November 2018 @ 17:59
      Bitcoin: If you don’t believe me or don’t get it, I don’t have time to try to convince you, sorry.
  • TD
    Timothy D.
    27 November 2018 @ 14:01
    This was painful to watch, I couldn’t finish it.
  • gb
    gabriel b.
    27 November 2018 @ 06:50
    That was a crazy hard interview to watch in the sense that Tim Draper continually interrupted whenever an idea was being challenged. It’s quite surprising to see someone successful that unaware of themselves and how they come across. Mike’s videos are great because of his ability to push back and have constructive dialogue with those who allow it, unfortunately that was not the case here. It’s a shame to have an hour long talk which included some very far out discussions as far as government structures without discussing the fact one of the most significant aspects of bitcoin is that it’s an alternative to debt based money and the world is in a giant debt bubble. Debt based monetary systems have inherent flaws and it would be great to have discussion about its flaws relative to the flaws in bitcoin and how money system that isn’t debt based could work in the modern world. In any event more of Mike please, and I don’t think it’s his fault Tim wouldn’t respond more directly whenever he was challenged
    • MM
      Mak M.
      29 November 2018 @ 22:38
      Mr.Green tried to challenge Mr.Draper about bitcoin without even knowing how much supply there is. He must at least know this little thing before he could have an opinion about the technology.
  • PB
    Pieter B.
    27 November 2018 @ 02:58
    Fantastic interview! Thanks a lot for your questions Mike and thanks Tim for his conviction on bitcoin, very interesting to hear!
  • AK
    Anthony K.
    27 November 2018 @ 01:07
    This guy completely undermined his credibility by saying that all the poor people in Africa and Indonesia would be pulled out of poverty by having access to bitcoin. Most nonsensical comment I have heard ever.
    • MM
      Mak M.
      29 November 2018 @ 22:40
      He didn't said that dude.He just said that with bitcoin, they have at least an opportunity to try to leave from poverty, with fiat they hadn't even hope.
  • MS
    Mark S.
    26 November 2018 @ 20:03
    As a libertarian myself, the conceptual ideas Tim puts forward sound great and even plausible. But plausible does not mean probable. And like every crypto proponent, even when confronted by a guy like Green in a forum like RV, Tim (they) always fail to satisfactorily address major issues with crypto. 1) distribution amongst the masses 2) enforcement of transactions 3) limited quantity (how many times has bitcoin forked already? how many cryptos are there now, 1000+?) 4) speed of transaction processing (Visa and MasterCard process about 25,000 per second!) 5) cost of unit production and later transaction processing (right now looks very expensive and environmentally disastrous) 6) one human generated EMP or natural solar flare has the potential to take system down and/or permanently wipe out records I know the crypto community is working feverishly on these things, but they are going to have to work faster. The world cannot wait a decade for them to catch-up to Visa and MC's processing speed. People will lose interest, funding will dry up, etc. And finally if the BitCoin block chain is ever hacked, even just once, it's value goes to zero instantaneously. Still lots of huge challenges ahead, I wish them all luck, but I remain unconvinced that all of these issues can be resolved in a timely and satisfactory manner for crypto to become what Tim thinks it'll be.
    • AM
      Andrew M.
      26 November 2018 @ 23:10
      Excellent points. Not to mention that geopolitically, there is just no chance countries (and central banks in particular) simply give up their power over the money supply (and their power to charge taxes). They would sooner spend millions, if not billions, destroying crypto if it were a serious threat... Wars have been fought over the the monetary system / reserve fx more than is ever acknowledged (almost all wars are financial). At the same time, China is creating a system that tracks every citizen and scores their behaviour, and yet the world sits idly by but believes crypto is going to unleash us and set us free... perhaps it has the potential, but the political backdrop needs to be conducive as well.
    • EM
      Ewan M.
      27 November 2018 @ 12:30
      Your ignorance is embarrassing. Maybe you should read some technical whitepapers before making comments.
    • CB
      C B.
      28 November 2018 @ 22:41
      Quantum computing already poses a theoretical threat to the security of bitcoin encryption. https://www.technologyreview.com/s/609408/quantum-computers-pose-imminent-threat-to-bitcoin-security/
  • ZY
    ZHENG Y.
    26 November 2018 @ 15:43
    I believe the world Tim imaging is highly possible, just need to consider the time frame...When i rewatch the movie "Back to the future", some prediction do happen, but not all aspect... I also feel now the world is walking into a more "dictator-kind" of leadership...maybe like fourth turning said.
  • TT
    Trenton T.
    26 November 2018 @ 14:49
    A near perfect example of why wealth rarely is preserved past three generations. What I heard was, "if you don't agree with me, I'll just be condescending and insult you at the close " Great interview by Mike Green again. Mike asks many solid questions. Unfortunately, that does not guarantee he'll get a solid answer. I'd like to meet Mike someday to have the pleasure of having my thinking challenged.
  • PP
    Patrick P.
    26 November 2018 @ 08:21
    We will have virtual governments? So when the water main breaks in front of my business I will call the Chinese to come and fix it. How many fat boys did this guy smoke before this interview?
  • MM
    Michael M.
    26 November 2018 @ 07:38
    Seems if anything at all is probable it is that you have fiat issued on block chain. Then watch out, big brother will have perfect vision of literally everything you do. This guy Draper is a lunatic.
  • BS
    Bevyn S.
    26 November 2018 @ 01:54
    Tim Draper has arguments filled with holes that are as laughingly bold as they were arrogantly delivered. I get the sense he has little understanding of the technology he so greatly believes in. An unworthy interviewee of Mike Green, in my opinion. On a flip note, I can't help but be reminded of the scenes in The Big Short where they main characters were doing groundwork investigation into the housing bubble. Seeing 'prophets' like this makes me believe we are far from the bottom in crypto. For the record, I believe DLT and blockchain tech truely has the potential to change the world. I will patiently be waiting for my chance to invest. *End rant*
  • RA
    Robert A.
    26 November 2018 @ 01:03
    It would be interesting to measure the Audience’s reception to this video over the last 60 days—-say when BC was 8,000....or when BC was 6,000...or say today when BC is 4,000. Just saying.
  • PG
    Philippe G.
    25 November 2018 @ 20:06
    Great to see Mike Green again!!
  • RH
    ROBERT H.
    25 November 2018 @ 18:49
    Needs to give a much better explanation of how crypto will ever be "frictionless." And of how exactly how poverty-stricken third-world inhabitants will track and transact their "Satoshis."
  • RW
    Richard W.
    25 November 2018 @ 17:53
    Interesting discussion and useful to hear both sides of the argument. No-one knows the future of crypto currencies so rather than second guessing it's very nice to have the debate. Also, the part about his venture capital work was very interesting. Shame to give a thumbs down just because you don't like someone's point of view
    • DH
      Damian H. | Founder
      25 November 2018 @ 22:13
      This is a great way to approach interviews like this.
    • PJ
      Peter J.
      26 November 2018 @ 11:12
      Richard, I have no problem with a different point of view in this rare instance I did vote with a thumbs down, as I did not feel that many of Mike Green's questions were answered or addressed.
  • JD
    Jeff D.
    25 November 2018 @ 17:49
    I'm 33 and I want US $$$$ so I can buy stuff from the baby boomers, because they have all the stuff. In 40 years the young people will buy my stuff with some currency, might be US $$$$ or BTC or ???? Who the hell knows?
    • CP
      Constantine P.
      27 November 2018 @ 09:23
      There is an increasing possibility that the next generation will just take your stuff that you bought from the baby boomers!
  • AR
    Abishek R.
    25 November 2018 @ 14:00
    Mike Green has shown unbelievable discipline to see out this interview till its end with a straight face.
  • AR
    Abishek R.
    25 November 2018 @ 13:51
    Tim Draper did not give Mike Green the courtesy to complete his question or view point.
    • BH
      Ben H.
      27 November 2018 @ 02:22
      Draper interrupted every question. Unbelievable ego.
  • AR
    Abishek R.
    25 November 2018 @ 13:47
    "South African Riyad" might be more valuable than bitcoin by this time next year :)
  • HL
    HORNLONG L.
    25 November 2018 @ 12:07
    Bitcoin backed by gold,oil and arm forces of usa = global currency
  • JW
    J W.
    25 November 2018 @ 12:05
    OK, let's start an "absolute dumbest thing that Draper said" thread. I nominate: "And so if you do a Monte Carlo simulation here, you would be very heavy in Bitcoin, because even if 50-50 that I'm right, it's huge for the future."
    • RK
      Robert K.
      25 November 2018 @ 12:08
      yes, sounds like a winner ;)
    • HH
      HODL H.
      25 November 2018 @ 18:34
      Wow didn’t even watch yet and I’m looking forward to it. Any talk of Theranos or BTC/Crypto front running?
  • RK
    Robert K.
    25 November 2018 @ 11:21
    Today’s BTC action is punishing Tim enough I guess. 3rd and 4th generational wealth is probably the least ‘intelligent’ and according to statistics most of it disappears by the 3rd generation. I always wondered how and this could be a good example. Tim mentions even that his daughter invests in startups only run by women. Why not bring it his idea further and invest in startups according to all sexual orientations like special investment vehicles for all the letters in LGBTQ.
  • NG
    Nicolas G.
    25 November 2018 @ 10:09
    Some of you may like to read about some real use cases of BTC doing what is designed to do, i.e. to protect the wealth of world citizens from the socialdemocrat, keynesian, kleptocrat politicians. https://cointelegraph.com/news/how-venezuela-came-to-be-one-of-the-biggest-markets-for-crypto-in-the-world
    • NG
      Nicolas G.
      25 November 2018 @ 10:22
      Many of you, including Green and Pal, struggle to acknowledge how world Govts lost the battle against Online Piracy (Megaupload and others). Why? Because Govts cannot acknowledge they cannot control Internet, as they would be publicly projecting an image of weakness to their citizens. It had to be private innovation (e.g. Netflix) and not Govt. control who beat online piracy, by proposing a better service to the consumers at a competitive rate. Therefore, no it is not Govts. who will put an end to Crypto but rather, a better and more competitive fintech industry who will, only as long as Govts. allow them to do so.
  • RI
    R I.
    25 November 2018 @ 05:55
    Succinctly stated, please bring back Mike Green sooner rather than later, but no need to rush back Draper.
  • JF
    Joseph F.
    25 November 2018 @ 03:30
    BTC/USD $3638.48, ETH/USD 105.46, LTC/USD 27,78. Crashing. Nov 24/18.
  • MH
    Michael H.
    25 November 2018 @ 01:51
    Gresham's "law" is a monetary theory, supported by empirical observation, that "bad" money drives "good" money out of circulation. If bitcoin's many problems could ever be solved, including the forks, potential regulation and so on, then I think it would qualify as a "good" currency. In that scenario, we should expect consumers would hoard it. Yet if consumers hoard it, then it can't serve as a transactional currency. Gold may or may not be a wise investment, but nobody's thesis for gold depends on use cases to pay for pizzas or haircuts. No clever software can fix that internal inconsistency in the bullish case for bitcoin. Either bitcoin is a transactional currency, in which case the value of the ledger "real estate" will likely be minimal relative to competing currencies, or it's an asset that retains its value over time, because of its inherent scarcity and so on. It can't be both.
    • PN
      Paul N.
      25 November 2018 @ 05:53
      So... something can’t be both a store and value and medium of exchange?
    • MH
      Michael H.
      25 November 2018 @ 17:35
      Sure it can, in the short to intermediate term. In the longer run, I'm not aware of an asset that's done both very well. Holding USD over the last 10 years may have been smart because of the optionality it gave you, but the real value of that asset didn't go up.
  • PC
    Philip C.
    25 November 2018 @ 01:09
    There are lot of clever people working on cryptos, so I wouldn't bet against them, but they face huge problems. 1. There are too may cryptos. Only a few are likely to survive. 2. Many have forked, which reduces their trustworthiness. 3. Prices are volatile. 4. There are unknown parties who hold large quantities (whales). 5. Exchanges have had security problems and are unregulated. 6. Managing and securing private keys is difficult for non-technical users. 7. Proof of work cryptos are a waste of electricity. 8. Cryptos have not demonstrated that they are scalable to high transaction volumes. 9. If cryptos become popular, governments may see them as a challenge and ban them, or regulate them out of existence. I hope that some cryptos will succeed, but I suspect that the ones we have now are just prototypes.
    • AZ
      Angelo Z.
      25 November 2018 @ 04:10
      100%. How many versions of Bitcoin are there now? It was supposed to be a hard cap on a single chain. The most recent fork with BCH is highlighting the problem, every contention among egos is going to lead to a fork? Ledger technology is here to stay, how to invest in that fact is the question going forward.
    • PG
      Petter G.
      27 November 2018 @ 17:39
      1) Yes. Buy bitcoin. 2) Nope. The code base is *not* bitcoin. Bitcoin is the code base, the users, companies, the developers, the miners and everything around it. *Very* hard to replicate. 3) Yes, but this will pass with time. 4) This is true. 5) This is true but it gets better. Only transact on exchanges with good reputation. 6) This used to be true, but it's easier than you think nowadays. This will also improve over time (see Casa for instance) 7) It's a feature, not a bug. It's the security guard keeping your BTC safe. That said, I'd be happy to abandon POW if something equally secure but less power consuming was developed. 8) Yes they have. See Lightning Network. 9) Yes, some might. But for every ban there will be another government that embraces it. Global coordination between all governments won't happen.
    • MM
      Mak M.
      29 November 2018 @ 23:05
      1) Yes, but not so safe as bitcoin because it has the biggest hash power. 2)The fork increases the trustworthiness of the project.More cooperative developers remain and not cooperative developers are trying their luck with a new currency. 3)Ofcource they will be,it is way too new in order to has price stability. 4) Are you kinding me? These people are everywhere, in every monetary system fiat or crypto. 5)This is the company's problem not bitcoin's. They must regulated. 6) If you want to have complete control of your money, you must read and understand about that. If you don't want to bother learning, then your money are not valuable to you.(you can send them to me) 7)It is not wasting,it is the cost of security.You pay electricity for safety. Good deal. 8)You are write they need improvement,but it is a matter of time. 9)How they can do that? Cut the internet and electricity of every house,warehouse or corporation on earth? I hope i answered some of them.
  • CN
    Charles N.
    25 November 2018 @ 00:47
    Lots of weak arguments from Mr. Draper, I feel: - Fees of storing fiat in a bank vs crypto on a physical wallet (ignoring physical currency which carries no fees but high risk, just like physical storage of bitcoin) - Banks get hacked but the blockchain can’t be (why not put fiat in a safe instead of a Trezor, as a way to hedge against hacking risk? Hacking risk is way higher for exchanges as well, due to mostly irreversible nature of cryptocurrency theft) - Cryptocurrency isn’t political (forks, which can happen at any time for any number of reasons, are extremely political and potentially destabilizing; bitcoin core’s codebase and adoption is extremely politically relevant) - Conversion of bitcoin to Satoshis (ignoring that the inequality is still very much preserved, merely saying “there are plenty of sub-pennies to go around if you keep moving the decimal point”) - 30 year olds all want bitcoin over USD (I’m <30, and I don’t) Thank you for never taking these arguments at face value or backing down with your questioning, Mike. I wish you’d had the time to push back even more. For those complaining about Mike’s 32m bitcoin comment, you’ve missed the huge amount of insight he brought to bear on this conversation over an arbitrary number.
    • CN
      Charles N.
      25 November 2018 @ 00:51
      Oh, and how could I forget “Cryptocurrency will be way easier to use than fiat,” followed by the hilariously optimistic, “once governments recognize bitcoin as a currency and don’t assess capital gains taxes on every transaction”)
  • mh
    matthew h.
    24 November 2018 @ 23:51
    why was tezos not called out at all in this interview? maybe something draper could actually talk to... but after this interview.. maybe not..
  • AW
    Aaron W.
    24 November 2018 @ 23:26
    Bitcoin -40% since this interview lol
  • MP
    Mark P.
    24 November 2018 @ 22:27
    Great job Mike in a tough interview situation. If I could up vote the interviewer and downvote the question evading, proselytising interviewee, I would have. So Mike, please don’t take my down vote as reflecting on your performance in any way. Keep up the great work. Mark
  • CC
    Christopher C.
    24 November 2018 @ 21:44
    I am by no measure a crypto or FX specialist. So when the protagonist in the argument, highlights as a use case, conversion to South African "Riad" (Saudi Riyal?) and even my ear knows the South African Rand is the currency of the land, it cast some deep shade on the argument being put forward. That being said I think there is some probable/possible merit for smaller countries population converting to crypto/ico's where volatility/mismanagement/hyperinflation is rampant and outpaces the risk/vol inherent in bitcoin/ other ICO's. That being said the biggest obstacle any currency competitors face (ico, gold, etc) in my view are sovereign seigniorage benefits currently accruing to local governments firstly, and secondly long term dependable integration back into the banking system via swift, etc. To say nothing of the risks inherent to system uptime/accessibility if the major sovereigns deem the alternatives enough of a threat and truly endeavour to stamp it out. There is massive power/privilege/momentum associated with seigniorage and those currently holding the reigns will not go quietly if at all. Perhaps those thinking goldmines/gold bullion coins will not be confiscated/deemed national security interests should the system when it collapses, be based in part on such a standard, might do well to review some not so distant history. No country is going to allow private ownership of mines which produce gold for 1000/oz and can immediately resell it on the open market (if there is on at all) for 5 or 10k. I could be wrong and invite thoughtful discussion and disagreement.
  • NI
    Nate I.
    24 November 2018 @ 21:01
    We'll assume for a moment that the transactional limitations of bitcoin will be solved, you still have to be delusional to think for one second that governments will give-up their printing press. You simply can't afford to be involved in military adventurism without inflation. While I wish Tim was right, I know with 99% certainty that he's wrong. Yes, of course there will be digital currency or something more "efficient/tamper-resistant" than paper/coins in the future, but it won't be bitcoin. It will be more like what Erik Townsend has labeled Orwell-coin. Governments will issue the digital currency and governments will use it to control every facet of our lives. Most importantly, governments will inflate it to further their own largesse and power. Very much like the Chinese prototype social credit system. It's horrifying and it will be rolled out bit-by-bit (pun intended) until the frogs are boiled. This isn't my science fiction, tin-foil hat, idea. New York entrepreneur and Democratic 2020 candidate Andrew Yang publicly stated that he wants to implement a system in which a government-run mobile app rewards Americans with “digital social credits” (DSCs) for good behavior. Let that sink-in. I can't wait to meet the blue-ribbon committee of "good behavior". Former FBI Director James Comey has publicly stated that he doesn't believe we are entitled to privacy of thought. Hopefully Yang is defeated, but it's coming because I don't think younger voters will recognize the threat. We aren't headed to the digital utopia envisioned by Tim, but rather a digital panopitcon with government controlling even the most trivial aspects of our daily lives. Something so horrific that not even Ayn Rand could have fathomed it.
    • CP
      Constantine P.
      27 November 2018 @ 09:30
      And these children think we are "luddites" for raising these issues.
  • BM
    Barry M.
    24 November 2018 @ 20:07
    I enjoyed it, the future of fiat currencies doesn`t look too good and there must be a better future in "crypto" currencies as opposed to the printing of bank notes and check books. There are a lot of thumbs down for this interview, I would be interested as to the average age of those who were displeased, above 50 I would wager :)
  • so
    steve o.
    24 November 2018 @ 19:58
    Such evangelical fervor from Draper! Broad proclamations about the day of reckoning and how we will all either greatly prosper through bitcoin or lose our hard earned wealth held in 'political currency'. Believe and convert before judgement day or suffer eternal wealth debasement! A bit more focus on the technology (blockchain) and actual steps in the inevitable process that Draper forecasts would be helpful for agnostics such as myself. This third generation VC is such an ensconced member of the moneyed aristocracy (from birth) with glittering pedigree that interviewers always show too much reverence for him and his proclamations. Green is a better interviewer than most whom I've watched interview Draper, but I wish he would have kept Draper in the secular realm and questioned his prediction for rapture.
  • MV
    Maxime V.
    24 November 2018 @ 19:58
    Didn’t he insult Mike by saying his interview compares with one with a high school kid? When during all the interview he never actually answered deeply to Mike’s question?
    • SS
      Stan S.
      24 November 2018 @ 22:02
      After a second viewing, Draper's thesis is no more believable or articulated. The interruptions were worse. It seems he was not prepared to be challenged and was possibly irritated by it. Additionally, the ending is more abrupt and the reference to the high school kid feels more insulting. Again, credit to Mike Green for trying to deliver value in the face of a set of shallow, repetitive talking points.
  • KB
    Kenneth B.
    24 November 2018 @ 19:31
    Sounds great about 15 years down the road, maybe ... I'm glad to hear the bullish case, but, wow, he's seems to be just hawking what will happen when the world collapses. Sure, maybe.
  • DR
    David R.
    24 November 2018 @ 18:28
    cool interview of a salesman I guess.. Draper obviously is a pusher, Green makes it clear that lack of deep thinking is traded for hype in Drapers pitch... so the old sky's the limit story, is it that difficult to be honest and realistic? Crypto needs to be reiterated more and still truly needs to stand up to world governments. Its impossible to be confident on how it all works out.
  • CB
    C B.
    24 November 2018 @ 16:55
    I wonder if Tim would be willing to read Erik Townsend’s new book about government sponsored crypto as the most likely future for crypto
    • TA
      Trevor A.
      2 December 2018 @ 01:57
      No need to pitch Erik's book here. Erik is great, MacroVoices is great, but he had no business writing a book about crypto. His commentary about the evolution of his views on crypto is self-indulgent.
  • MW
    Myron W.
    24 November 2018 @ 16:38
    Thanks to RV for bringing a different perspective - hope you don't let the anti-crypto commentators here influence you to stop bringing contrarian views.
  • MC
    Minum C.
    24 November 2018 @ 16:25
    Just couldn't make it to finish line on this one. Torture! How come no one's commented on the eyebrows?
    • gg
      georgy g.
      24 November 2018 @ 16:38
      Interviews like these are disservice. Snake oil
  • PJ
    Peter J.
    24 November 2018 @ 16:23
    This was more about the political fantasies of mr Draper than it was about crypto or bitcoin. The first deep interview I've actually given a thumbs down on. Never seem to address any of Mike Greens points head on. Loads of blue sky and no substance. Mike drew the short straw getting this one.
  • PU
    Peter U.
    24 November 2018 @ 15:10
    His tie, his body posture, his langauage, his mindset . . . . too much of a believer in cryptos!
  • PU
    Peter U.
    24 November 2018 @ 15:08
    Tim is clearly all in on crypto, so much so, I sound likes a car salesman!
    • PU
      Peter U.
      24 November 2018 @ 15:09
      He sounds like a car salesman!
  • gg
    georgy g.
    24 November 2018 @ 14:11
    So many real interesting investing opportunities out there that to even stop to think about btc seems like a colossal waste of time
    • CB
      C B.
      24 November 2018 @ 16:22
      I feel like 50bps as an allocation, to increase your potential to own the fork that eventually becomes a dominant player is a sensible risk reward. Not to mention that allocation keeps you engaged and learning. And.... worst comes to worst, you could just buy some dope on the dark web!
  • RM
    Russell M.
    24 November 2018 @ 14:06
    Must be hard to work with Mr Draper always talking never listening. And always seeing what could become, but unable to consider any more difficult outcomes. Hopefully someone else is managing risk.
  • FV
    Fredrik V.
    24 November 2018 @ 08:52
    In a free economy someone need to take the other side. I take the other side. To defend crypto, you don’t have to defend bitcoin and this is the main point I disagree on. The bitcoin tie just underline my argument.
  • TH
    Timo H.
    24 November 2018 @ 08:39
    Mr. Draper is yet another guy, who fell in love with the DEMO of the greatest innovation in decades and stopped thinking there. The real innovation is elsewhere, quite a bit forward from Bitcoin. For example, in Finland, we just launched a proof-of-concept network for fully decentralized issuance and trading of non-listed company shares using a combination of two different DLT technologies. No cryptocurrencies, utility tokens, stock exchanges, custodians or clearing services are needed and the solution is 100% compliant with all existing laws and regulation from the start. Furthermore, there are no scalability or privacy issues, that are inherent to the first-gen blockchain technologies. Bitcoin disruption just got disrupted :-) https://www.tieto.com/en/newsroom/all-news-and-releases/corporate-news/2018/11/asiakastieto-nordea-op-privanet-and-tieto-to-digitalize-trading-of-non-listed-company-shares/
    • PG
      Petter G.
      24 November 2018 @ 15:11
      Stop conflating private and public blockchains. Anyone with decent IT skills and knowledge about blockchains know that private blockchain projects are silly.
    • gr
      guy r.
      24 November 2018 @ 15:40
      Perhaps a good interview opportunity?!
  • RE
    Rachel E.
    24 November 2018 @ 08:29
    Amazing, how people’s psychology changes as price goes down. Bitcoin at $19K, everyone loved it, now price down everyone hates it. Never follow crowd!!!!!! Go back & read & watch all interviews just a year ago about Bitcoin. Bitcoin is the future and time will tell who is right.
  • KR
    Kieran R.
    24 November 2018 @ 07:09
    Mike Green is a legend. Draper is a tool and provided no useful arguments or insights
  • CR
    Cristian R.
    24 November 2018 @ 05:48
    At World Crypto Con in Las Vegas. Says about all you need to know. PS I'm thirty.
  • MK
    Mike K.
    24 November 2018 @ 04:27
    Too many poorly unsupported comments. I really tried to stay positive on the interview, but frankly Mike Green owned this conversation. No clear or strong points were made by Mr. Draper
  • MR
    Marc R.
    24 November 2018 @ 03:44
    A lot of people are mocking for draper for coming from money and that this is how he is wealthy. His history is irrelevant. He can't stay on topic and pivots to his talking points instead of answering the questions posed to him. He acts and speaks like a politician and these are not the guests we should have on here. Anyone can tell he is not a self-critical deep thinker from watching this interview. I have a small percentage allocated to bitcoin as I think it has a chance to be something much bigger than it is but I wish Draper would quit speaking on the subject.
  • LP
    Laurence P.
    24 November 2018 @ 03:25
    Wow! Big thumbs up for Mike’s iron-clad patience with this self-important clown. I’m a big fan of bitcoin, but Draper’s one dimensional, intellectually-lazy responses to Mike’s (as usual) well prepared, thought provoking questions brought this quote to mind: “I made my money the old fashioned way, I inherited it.”
  • PG
    Philip G.
    24 November 2018 @ 00:38
    As an owner of various crypto assets, including Bitcoin, I still think Tim is naive... I own a lot more gold than crypto but it never hurts to cover your bases...
  • PG
    Philip G.
    24 November 2018 @ 00:38
    As an owner of various crypto assets, including Bitcoin, I still think Tim is naive... I own a lot more gold than crypto but it never hurts to cover your bases...
  • PK
    Phil K.
    24 November 2018 @ 00:17
    Tim might have some valid points but please learn to behave like an adult. Interupting the whole time and surounding questions all the time does make him sound like a kid fanboy and loose any credibility. Answering Mikes very good questions with your insights would have been great. Did not help that Mike who normally is brilliant was not on top of this topic. The first time I felt watching a RV video made me loose time...
  • RK
    Robert K.
    24 November 2018 @ 00:01
    As a libertarian I sympathize with Tim a lot. He must be in lot of pain right now. He is obviously pushing Bitcoin specifically and it is hard not to discount the fact that he is heavily invested in them. Block-chain allows creation of private monies and that is beautiful. It will be a gazillion of them available and Bitcoin will be one of them. It will come back a full circle where people realize it is probably still better to rely on (improved) existing structures rather then nerds in Silicon Valley micro-dosed with LSD. Lot of the "disruptive" ideas indeed come out of ignorance. Bitcoin was a success while it was in the underground before it was hijacked by wall street. It is now on the radar of regulators and there is no way governments will be willing to give up their money printing monopolies.
  • az
    adr z.
    23 November 2018 @ 23:34
    Honestly wish i could thumb down multiple times. This guy does not have a well thought out... anything. On crypto, geopolitics nor macro. Utterly dissapointed, seems more like a salesman
  • JH
    Jacqueline H.
    23 November 2018 @ 23:21
    Good job Mike Green! All your interviews are good, but this one (IMHO) was more of a challenge than the rest...
  • PG
    Petter G.
    23 November 2018 @ 22:53
    Thanks RV, great to see that you're sticking with the crypto theme even through bear markets ;) However, please also bring on people like Andreas Antonopoulos or Tuur Demeester (I know he's be on the air before) that also know a lot about the technology. For instance, a sidechain was recently released by Blockstream which allows tokenized assets on top of bitcoin (tokenized fiat currencies for instance). It would be great to hear some discussions about these types of subjects because these technical features are the building blocks that the future economy will rely on (if bitcoin ever lives up to it's promise that is).
    • gr
      guy r.
      24 November 2018 @ 15:49
      Agree, variety of folk from this field would be welcome given the crazy price action and diversity of views! Antonopolous would be worthy of a ‘big name’ catch.
  • dd
    david d.
    23 November 2018 @ 22:32
    Tim Draper is going to lose all his money, its crazy !!! I bet he is buying more as bitcoin goes to zero
  • dd
    david d.
    23 November 2018 @ 22:22
    What people say does not matter, what matters is what they do. I don't know a single 30 year old that owns bitcoin.
    • RK
      Robert K.
      24 November 2018 @ 00:08
      Have to agree. And my sample of the population comes from here in Switzerland in a place that people call the "Crypto Valley". Often there is a Lamborghini passing by on my way to the office so if you want to see where your capital raised on the initial shitcoin offerings went just come to visit.
    • JJ
      Joe J.
      24 November 2018 @ 00:49
      Im in my 30s and all the "investors" in my age group that pitched me bitcoin were gamblers and get rich quick schemers who spend more time in Vegas than reading investment books. Bitcoin over dollars is a bad question. Bitcoin over gold/silver? That's something different
  • GF
    Gordon F.
    23 November 2018 @ 21:55
    I love the vision Tim expresses, but I long ago learned that just because I like something, or feel that good should always triumph over evil, or the more efficient over the less efficient, doesn't mean that it will happen. Governments currently control currency, which gives them tremendous power. If they decide Bitcoin is really a threat (and it seems that they are starting to), all they have to do is outlaw the digital currencies. If it becomes illegal to link your bank account to any digital currency exchange, and serious fines are levied for any unauthorized crypto payments, then digital currencies will cease being useful. There may still be some marginal use, but if they are illegal by definition, they will be worthless to any law-abiding person. This is not to say that governments will coordinate to accomplish this, but they certainly could, and if they feel that they are any threat to their power, I have no doubt that they will. Nathan Rothschild is reported to have said, "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws." IMO governments and national banks are not going to tolerate any serious threat to that power. I wish it were otherwise, but...
    • gr
      guy r.
      24 November 2018 @ 15:54
      Perhaps... but technology tends to win when incumbent institutions try to crush it. An observation only.
  • SS
    Stan S.
    23 November 2018 @ 21:51
    A few comments: -My respect for Mike Green grows with each interview I watch. I definitely enjoy when he challenges the interviewee and does not just politely move on the next question/topic. With respect to the other interviewers on RV, he seems the best prepared for the most complex subjects. -I agree with Mike's closing comments that many of the critical issues surrounding mass adoption of crypto haven't been thought through or are waved away too easily. The key issue is that governments aren't going to willingly relinquish their power of their currencies. -I was interested in Tim's views on a deeper future wherein governing structures as we know them seem not to exist or aren't as necessary or have far greater flexibility in terms of application. I'm skeptical but interested.
    • DS
      David S.
      23 November 2018 @ 22:44
      The origin of the word utopia is Greek meaning nowhere. If and or when Bitcoin is used within the law, governments would have a harder time outlawing it. Since Bitcoin is often used for illegal purposes, it must suffer the consequences. DLS
  • JH
    Jesse H.
    23 November 2018 @ 21:28
    ...they can play on his level. Sorry to be blunt, but that is my take anyway. Then again, it isn’t always easy to find interviewees at his level!
  • JH
    Jesse H.
    23 November 2018 @ 21:26
    Good job by Mike Green as always, but agree with some folks that this interview is hard to watch due to the apparent mismatch in intellects. When you have Mike Green interview folks, please make sure
  • WM
    William M.
    23 November 2018 @ 21:23
    Two very bright guys. Good back and forth about bitcoin, but it would be great to have a second episode where they don't even mention anything related to crypto currencies. I would love to hear more insights from Tim about venture capital, innovation etc.
  • JO
    Joseph O.
    23 November 2018 @ 21:01
    The difference in intellect is almost comical. Draper's mind is shockingly simplistic.
  • PP
    Peter P.
    23 November 2018 @ 20:55
    Appears less than one hundred viewers for the Friday RV event, and probably because Crypto in the title. Loved this interview and agree with other comments that Michael Green did an incredible job at raising arguments without the interview becoming disagreeable - both expressed their views to the fullest. Quite clear the threat that Crypto, if taken up globally, poses to governments. For Michael Green - the answer is that every government will need to run a deflationary surplus, instead of our current inflationary deficits, and only then can government fiat trump crypto. Between the deficit world we live in (ponzi finance as the only surplus is the 0.001% elites/banks) & the surplus/no deficit/deflationary future is the destruction of $270bn in global debt which has its mirror in “wealth” - $450mm recently discovered DaVinci paintings, and $10-100mm homes in NY or London that were much more affordable (the same home) 30 years ago. Michael did not address the unbanked issue that half the world lacks banking and more generally property rights, and Bitcoin gives those people property rights. Remember it is not enough to keep crypto in an US “e-bank” like Coinbase who will now report any transfer out of Coinbase - above a few hundred dollars - as must of having been for a “purchase” or service rendered and so transfers in BTC below $1000 not only need to be reported but you may owe sales taxes on those transfers for services bought from an unknown party. This just points to the beginning of the endgame for our current system. I have watched every interview Michael Green has ever done, and recommend everyone watch them more than once, but I loved the idea that an expert in derivatives, who has recently made a great win betting against the VIX ETN instruments & that those gains came from re-valuations after hours, when his markets were effectively closed being the defender of the “real” world & that Mr. Draper lives in a synthetic universe. I believe Bill Miller has recommended books on this dichotomy including John Searle’s “The Construction of Social Reality” Bravo RV & Michael Green once again.
    • PP
      Peter P.
      23 November 2018 @ 20:57
      $270 trillion in Global fiat debt - not $270 billion
    • SS
      Stan S.
      23 November 2018 @ 22:23
      I didn't see Mike defending any particular world. I saw him describing reality, predicting certain outcomes based on reality and its history that stand in the way of Tim's vision and trying to make the conversation richer by raising counterpoints. Cheers.
    • DS
      David S.
      24 November 2018 @ 02:23
      Professor John Searle is a favorite and certainly brilliant but a thousand levels deeper than necessary to analyze this interview. I would suggest looking at Eric Hoffer's "The True Believer" as all the depth needed to understand Mr. Draper's position on Bitcoin. Since Mr. Draper is successful in venture capital, he must be much more deliberate in other investments. I do not believe in the story of Bitcoin myself. My belief may be wrong, and Mr. Draper may be correct. Time will tell. DLS
  • TE
    Tito E.
    23 November 2018 @ 20:22
    Leaving thoughts on DLT / blockchain aside, this was a good conversation but felt slightly lightweight. I cant help feeling Michaels questions on the corporeal nature of our lives (and of power systems) were skirted around. - The vast majority our lives are lived in our bodies and our minds, not in digital space. Qualia unchanged. Digital space just does more and more of our admin (including money). We do well to remember this. - to follow; If you have greater 'corporeal power' than me you can harm my body or throw my body in jail - overriding the power of a smartcontract. I feel this was the clash Michael was referring to wrt old powers (like gvmts) not being keen to cede control to distributed systems
  • PM
    Plan M.
    23 November 2018 @ 19:48
    Draper conducted a kind of filibuster on Green that left me frustrated. I wanted to have Mike put forth a question or reply to a statement from Draper and have him respond. Instead, Draper talked over Green so often that I felt he was trying to steer the conversation back to a place of comfort for him. It was good viewing nevertheless.
    • DS
      David S.
      23 November 2018 @ 22:52
      This is a classic case of filibustering. Since Mike was interviewing, he did not want to get into a debate. We now know Tim's positions on Bitcoin - the good the bad and the ugly. DLS
  • AM
    Andrew M.
    23 November 2018 @ 19:40
    Mike did a great job trying to elicit answers to the questions many of us have regarding the adoption of Bitcoin as a widely used currency for transactions. However, Mr. Draper made no effort to clarify what money is in it's essence. Is Bitcoin money? If Bitcoin is not money, then it is just another faddish device. Also, he dodged any discussion of why governments would allow Bitcoin to freely be used and transacted across borders. When things get dicey, capital controls will be a challenge for Bitcoin. I was hoping that Mr. Draper would bring a new, cogent perspective to Bitcoin. Not so. In fact, I think his arguments are so flimsy that I am even more convinced that Bitcoin, notwithstanding the blockchain innovation, will go nowhere.
  • MD
    Murph D.
    23 November 2018 @ 19:38
    If Mike Green is involved, I am tuning in start to finish regardless of topic. Such a class act handling all the interruptions and soft answers. It’s time to get him back in the interviewee’s chair! Murph
  • JM
    Jared M.
    23 November 2018 @ 18:36
    Thanks to Tim for standing his ground and speaking his mind. Very insightful and thought provoking commentary. Everyone should realize that eventually he will be right whether that takes 5 years, 50, or 500, embrace technology or perish.
  • rr
    rlw r.
    23 November 2018 @ 18:10
    A smoking topic, yes Mike please pursue even while you are constantly interrupted for not cheerleading. And to be fair, the silicon echo chamber has many ideas and certainly worthy of much consideration. It’s likely easier to agree bloatware governments are pass due date.
  • DS
    David S.
    23 November 2018 @ 17:33
    I would love to see a follow-up with Mike Green on if and how venture capitalism is changing during the current stock market downturn. DLS
  • DS
    David S.
    23 November 2018 @ 17:22
    Mr. Draper is a real true believer in Bitcoin and good to hear his views. I know that he will continue to be successful. I am, however, very skeptical as the cost of mining goes up and governments gain better control of using Bitcoin history to track, find and arrest felons. Poverty in the world will not be eliminated if Bitcoin became mainstream. People can be scammed with Bitcoin just as easily as in fiat currency and hackers will steal more and more Bitcoins at every opportunity. Bitcoin is a great idea and really benefited the development of blockchain technology. As long as there is an illegal use for Bitcoin it will survive, but the future of digital currencies is in fiat money like Bitdollar, Bityuan and Biteuro as the IMF is suggesting. DLS
  • CM
    Carlos M.
    23 November 2018 @ 16:54
    love this guy, as every visionary he thinks in diffrerent terms and passionate about what he does. it is funny to see mike with him because they have completely different approaches.
  • PZ
    Petr Z.
    23 November 2018 @ 16:52
    the interview could be much better should the interviewer be more crypto literate!!!
  • SD
    Sebastien D.
    23 November 2018 @ 16:46
    Congratulation to Mike for keeping his cool in front of an interviewee constantly interrupting him. Mr Draper is enthousiatic about the crypto space and probably well read the Sovereign Individual, but it does not always seems coherent or deeply understood. Overall I felt that serious questions from Mike where avoided by chit chat about what great good crypto will bring to the world.
    • SD
      Sebastien D.
      23 November 2018 @ 16:56
      Ho and the conclusion about the high school kid is ridiculous when clearly Mike overpowers his counterpart in IQ and maturity. I'm a crypro enthousiast but share Mike's parting comment and a bit of his frustration. That said similar questions could have been raised about the Internet or the globalization, and in fact many of these things are discovered along the way.
    • DS
      David S.
      23 November 2018 @ 22:59
      Sebastien D. - Governments are starting to tame the excesses of the internet and globalization. I would add in the Euro as it is a fiat currency without a sovereign. DLS
    • TM
      The-First-James M.
      24 November 2018 @ 23:10
      David S. Not quite sure how you've come to the conclusion the Euro is a currency without a Sovereign. The Sovereign is Brussels/Strasbourg and the politicians who fill the corridors of EU power in these two locations....
    • DS
      David S.
      26 November 2018 @ 13:34
      The-First-James M.- I agree that the Euro has many trappings of a sovereign like a huge bureaucracy promulgating rules, etc. It is, however, a confederation of independent sovereigns currently agreeing on the issuance of the Euro mostly backstopped by Germany. I should have said a single sovereign which would have been more correct. DLS
  • DM
    Dom M.
    23 November 2018 @ 16:43
    History shows that no one gives up power willingly
  • RM
    Richard M.
    23 November 2018 @ 16:39
    Loved Mike Green as usual, not so impressed by Mr Draper. He was full of old-school buzzwords and hype. Totally unrealistic in his future views of crypto IMHO. If he hadn't inherited great wealth I wonder if he would have still been the success that he is in Silicon Valley? Would have really liked for Mike to ask Mr Draper (at the end/wrap-up of the interview) for lessons learned with his Theranos experience (to see if he actually learned anything).
    • IO
      Igor O.
      23 November 2018 @ 19:50
      Can tell Mike is not buying it. And oh I keep my fiat for now until Theranos I mean Tether scam unwinds.
  • MW
    Moritz W.
    23 November 2018 @ 16:01
    Great interview :) Many thanks! ...for the record: 1 Bitcoin = 100m Satoshis
  • BJ
    Brendan J.
    23 November 2018 @ 15:05
    Anyone else care to give their Bitcoin prediction in 2022? - serious question.
    • TE
      Tito E.
      23 November 2018 @ 20:25
      No
    • PG
      Petter G.
      23 November 2018 @ 22:17
      I predict that block of transactions will be mined every 10 minutes and that 6.25 new bitcoin will be created in that same process.
    • PN
      Paul N.
      24 November 2018 @ 02:26
      I’ll put my neck out and say >$50k, on the way to 6 figures before another massive crash.
  • WP
    Warren P.
    23 November 2018 @ 14:58
    5G may be the "new society" as there are tons of use cases that can easily be envisioned. Bitcoin has a few use cases, blockchain has a few more use cases. Bitcoin/Blockchain has low barriers to entry and thus is "low hanging" fruit compared to 5G;
  • CQ
    Colin Q.
    23 November 2018 @ 14:53
    The Luddites turned out to be 100% correct...
    • KJ
      Keith J.
      23 November 2018 @ 15:12
      Anyone who bought before Q4 17 is still in profit even if they HODL’ed. Anyone who used principles like Raoul’s GMI crash pattern would have got out at a price 3x higher than today. Making money is better than being 100% correct.
  • SP
    Stephen P.
    23 November 2018 @ 14:12
    I want my Bitcoin interviewers to know how many bitcoins can ever be produced, roughly how many are produced already, and familiarity with the concept of halving of the block reward. I want them to understand the annual transaction volume is already of order $1 trillion. And some vague idea at least about mining and proof of work and the difference between mined and non-mined coins.
    • SP
      Stephen P.
      23 November 2018 @ 14:15
      Draper himself did not know how many Satoshis per Bitcoin, off by an order of magnitude. I am less inclined to buy into his $250K forecast, but do agree with his general views expressed.
  • SH
    Steve H.
    23 November 2018 @ 14:04
    Digital currencies controlled by central banks are inevitable. Crypto in its current form has no long-term future.
    • PN
      Paul N.
      24 November 2018 @ 02:12
      Thats what we already have
  • EB
    Enrico B.
    23 November 2018 @ 13:26
    I am exactly 30 years old and my portfolio says that I prefer USD over BTC.
  • RD
    Rodger D.
    23 November 2018 @ 13:00
    Interesting interview, while he had the outline of a number of interesting positive general points, it was very much big picture stuff and Tim struggled a bit to articulate how the visions he has for the future will come to pass. In many ways it felt like Mike Green has thought more deeply about how the crypto space might evolve and the challenges it could/will face in the next 5-10 years (32 vs 21 million flub aside). So he had good follow up questions & pushback that Tim maybe isn't so used to . Would be very interested in seeing Mike sit down for a long form chat with Andreas Antonopoulus.
    • PN
      Paul N.
      24 November 2018 @ 02:24
      Andreas has personally been at senate hearings in the US, Canada, and Australia testifying on behalf of this space and is one of the best advocates for bitcoin. He is well equipped to discuss government policy and bitcoin.
  • DS
    David S.
    23 November 2018 @ 12:56
    Great to see Michael Green back interviewing . Thanks, DLS
  • DS
    David S.
    23 November 2018 @ 12:55
    Bitcoin works well in Malta because of all the money laundering. Somehow a journalist was murdered in Malta who was writing about island leaders profiting from global corruption. Mr. Draper may like the freedom from the rule of law in Malta, but would he move his family there? DLS
    • CQ
      Colin Q.
      23 November 2018 @ 14:13
      Absolutely correct re Malta. See the latest revelations re “17 Black” (Google it) and kickbacks to ministers via Panamanian companies.
  • VC
    Vince C.
    23 November 2018 @ 12:50
    Engaging conversation, two intelligent men and meeting of differing approach/perspectives. Thanks Real Vision!
  • CD
    Chris D.
    23 November 2018 @ 12:25
    Mike Green? Instant like!
  • EP
    Eli P.
    23 November 2018 @ 12:24
    please -no more pump and dump !!!!-bitcoim and the rest of the crypto are worthless .we want gold !!!
    • AD
      Anne-Marie D.
      23 November 2018 @ 12:58
      No we don't.
    • IO
      Igor O.
      23 November 2018 @ 20:01
      We want crypto that works. Widely adopted, functional, stable not controller by any entity. And gold..
    • DS
      David S.
      23 November 2018 @ 23:11
      igor O. - I like your optimism, but I would not hold your breath. The fiat genie is out of the bottle and controlling markets. With floating rates, governments that try to control their currency can borrow for 50 years at negative rates. The Swiss of course. DLS
    • TM
      The-First-James M.
      24 November 2018 @ 22:49
      I want both and I own both. Why? Well, if I need to get my Gold out of a suddenly hostile jurisdiction to a friendlier one, I will need to smuggle it. With smuggling, comes risk. I read with interest the opinions of an Indian Gold Smuggler that it's only possible to stuff 800 grams up your rectum before it affects your gait. Personally, I'd rather not try, nor be in a position where I'm forced to try. Sure, I can hold Gold via Brinks and Goldmoney across multiple jurisdictions, but I can do the same thing with Bitcoin; my only counterparty being the Bitcoin Blockchain and Economic Ecosystem. I would encourage you and Goldbugs who think like you to not be so closed minded. Guys like Ronnie Stoeferle of Incrementum are open minded for a reason.
  • DP
    David P.
    23 November 2018 @ 11:53
    A very scary distopian future exposed by Mr Draper. The bitcoin as he envisions it has the potential to be a global currency that would take down government that would be less and less able to sell security in the long term for costs in the short term. A bigger unified system will also exacerbate the current "globalist" winner takes all environment where power shifts from states to large corporations.
    • DS
      David S.
      23 November 2018 @ 17:40
      Dystopia is the very word that came to my mind also. Mike tried to open the possibility but was not allowed to discuss any negative outcomes. When there are only positive outcomes, be careful. DLS
  • FG
    Fred G.
    23 November 2018 @ 11:26
    Only Mike Green could have done this interview, and so glad he did. Fascinating insight into Mr Draper's world view. Excited for future possibilities. From a practical point of view Bitcoin is already far cheaper and is easier to send funds internationally compared to fiat currency. It is not hard to see how it's adoption could increase further. Once it reaches a critical mass it may well move 'fast and change things,' just like the other technologies described in the interview (e.g uber). This is not the first time in history that this has happened. Ironically, the idea of a western democratic government is very new in relative terms and would never have been imagined by the feudal serfs the generation before. In this case the western monarchs had no choice but to give away some power at first as a compromise and then gradually all of their effective power.