Tim Draper’s Crypto-Centric World View

Published on
23 November, 2018
Duration
59 minutes

Tim Draper’s Crypto-Centric World View

Featuring Tim Draper

Outspoken bitcoin bull and noted Silicon Valley investor Tim Draper joins Thiel Macro’s Mike Green for a discussion on how the worlds of venture capital and crypto are colliding. The two investors also discuss crypto’s potential impact on fiat currency, and the ways in which new rules and regulations could alter the future of trading. Filmed on November 1, 2018 at World Crypto Con in Las Vegas.

Published on
23 November, 2018
Duration
59 minutes
Rating
149
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Comments

  • VE

    Viktor E.

    7 12 2018 20:20

    2       0

    I enjoyed he interview. Draper had some solid points but almost all VCs ,with their move fast and break things and shotgun approach, have a hard time grasping Bitcoin. It's a growth currency if anything, not a company. You can't bet on 50 cryptocurrencies and hope for the best. Mike Green is obviously a crazy smart guy. But it's obvious that he don't understand how Bitcoin works. That's the problem, the critique s always the same low level stuff. Bitcoin has issues and is hard to grasp. It's a complex combination of a peer to peer network, computer science, cryptography and social rules. The skeptics will never take the time to fully understand it and come forward with thoughtful critique

    The main issue for Mr Green seems to be the distribution. It's important to realize that every Bitcoin created has been created on a free market. Everyone had the same opportunity to create new bitcoin. The first miners mined for a loss for 2 years when Bitcoin was only a small experiment. That still doesn't mean that someone with 10 000 BTC has more power than a guy with 0,001 BTC. If both run a full node and validate their transaction they are both equal. That's not the way our fiatsystems work.

    To answer some of the most common critique with 1 or 2 sentences:
    Quantum computers will break Bitcoin: Quantum computers are only theoretical at the moment. Bitcoin private keys are protected by 128 bit ECDSA signatures PLUS a 256 bit hashfunction.
    PoW wastes energy: The gain of sound money for society is larger than the cost of a few % of the worlds energy consumption. PoW of work will seek out the cheapest energy sources (eg mostly stranded renewable energy)
    Forks dilute the supply: You can't use forks on the Bitcoin network. It's like saying that the Zimbabwe dollar would dilute the US-dollar.
    Transactions are to slow: You could build Visa or Mastercard on top of Bitcoin today. More existing is the trustless lightning network that's up and running (confirmations in 1 sec, no limit on transactions/s)

    Fidelity, Bakkt and Van Eck wouldn't be building solutions for Bitcoin if it wasn't interesting. And a final word. Don't listen to Eric Townsend. He obviously tries to leverage his 20 year old tech knowledge. His critique is riddled with flaws (he thinks Mike Hearn invented blockchains, wtf?). He comes of as nothing but a charlatan. I lost all respect.

    Hope I didn't come of as an asshole, cheers!

  • JS

    James S.

    4 12 2018 23:45

    2       2

    I know venture guys are out always dreamers, but Mr Draper seems to be in Colorado or Canada, not Vegas. what percent of his ventures pan out again? We can't even get voter ids and you think people will submit to block chain style tracking of welfare or other programs? His smugness is just astounding. Half of regulation is to try to protect less than smart people from being ripped off and or or from doing none headed things. I don't believe any technology is forever hack proof (quantum computing the keys), he is from silicon valley right? People can't even lock down their home routers or computers. We will get crypto but it will be issued by your goverment the way Infis did it. Mr Green was rather soft on Draper, obviously there was not going to be any rational push back. I found myself waiting for the next ridiculous claim that bitcoin is going to solve and I was never disappointed. Sorry but purely a fluff piece.

  • CR

    Chris R.

    4 12 2018 22:32

    1       0

    thats what 100x in 2.5years does to your brain, or ripple holders 700x in 1year (the result of the latter can be witnessed on twitter right now)

  • DV

    Dimitri V.

    2 12 2018 07:21

    0       0

    gotta say I agree with Draper on CA governance lol

  • MM

    Mak M.

    29 11 2018 22:36

    1       0

    Mr. Green is obvious against bitcoin and crypto, can you just hide it a little bit. Also you have an opinion about something that you haven't even try it. I also made these mistakes in the past, please don't do that, in order to become a better self. Thank you Mr.Draper for this interview

  • GS

    Gunnar S.

    28 11 2018 17:49

    4       4

    Bitcoin is governed by users (full nodes) incentives. Mr. Green does not know anything about bitcoin.. 32 million... He comes off as a clueless statist fighting a global social revolution in tech, money and governance. Mr Draper is the big thinker here.

  • TD

    Timothy D.

    27 11 2018 14:01

    6       2

    This was painful to watch, I couldn’t finish it.

  • gb

    gabriel b.

    27 11 2018 06:50

    15       1

    That was a crazy hard interview to watch in the sense that Tim Draper continually interrupted whenever an idea was being challenged. It’s quite surprising to see someone successful that unaware of themselves and how they come across. Mike’s videos are great because of his ability to push back and have constructive dialogue with those who allow it, unfortunately that was not the case here. It’s a shame to have an hour long talk which included some very far out discussions as far as government structures without discussing the fact one of the most significant aspects of bitcoin is that it’s an alternative to debt based money and the world is in a giant debt bubble. Debt based monetary systems have inherent flaws and it would be great to have discussion about its flaws relative to the flaws in bitcoin and how money system that isn’t debt based could work in the modern world. In any event more of Mike please, and I don’t think it’s his fault Tim wouldn’t respond more directly whenever he was challenged

  • PB

    Pieter B.

    27 11 2018 02:58

    5       0

    Fantastic interview! Thanks a lot for your questions Mike and thanks Tim for his conviction on bitcoin, very interesting to hear!

  • AK

    Anthony K.

    27 11 2018 01:07

    5       3

    This guy completely undermined his credibility by saying that all the poor people in Africa and Indonesia would be pulled out of poverty by having access to bitcoin. Most nonsensical comment I have heard ever.

  • MS

    Mark S.

    26 11 2018 20:03

    5       2

    As a libertarian myself, the conceptual ideas Tim puts forward sound great and even plausible. But plausible does not mean probable. And like every crypto proponent, even when confronted by a guy like Green in a forum like RV, Tim (they) always fail to satisfactorily address major issues with crypto.

    1) distribution amongst the masses
    2) enforcement of transactions
    3) limited quantity (how many times has bitcoin forked already? how many cryptos are there now, 1000+?)
    4) speed of transaction processing (Visa and MasterCard process about 25,000 per second!)
    5) cost of unit production and later transaction processing (right now looks very expensive and environmentally disastrous)
    6) one human generated EMP or natural solar flare has the potential to take system down and/or permanently wipe out records

    I know the crypto community is working feverishly on these things, but they are going to have to work faster. The world cannot wait a decade for them to catch-up to Visa and MC's processing speed. People will lose interest, funding will dry up, etc.

    And finally if the BitCoin block chain is ever hacked, even just once, it's value goes to zero instantaneously.

    Still lots of huge challenges ahead, I wish them all luck, but I remain unconvinced that all of these issues can be resolved in a timely and satisfactory manner for crypto to become what Tim thinks it'll be.

  • ZY

    ZHENG Y.

    26 11 2018 15:43

    2       0

    I believe the world Tim imaging is highly possible, just need to consider the time frame...When i rewatch the movie "Back to the future", some prediction do happen, but not all aspect...
    I also feel now the world is walking into a more "dictator-kind" of leadership...maybe like fourth turning said.

  • TT

    Trenton T.

    26 11 2018 14:49

    12       1

    A near perfect example of why wealth rarely is preserved past three generations. What I heard was, "if you don't agree with me, I'll just be condescending and insult you at the close " Great interview by Mike Green again. Mike asks many solid questions. Unfortunately, that does not guarantee he'll get a solid answer. I'd like to meet Mike someday to have the pleasure of having my thinking challenged.

  • PP

    Patrick P.

    26 11 2018 08:21

    2       1

    We will have virtual governments? So when the water main breaks in front of my business I will call the Chinese to come and fix it. How many fat boys did this guy smoke before this interview?

  • MM

    Michael M.

    26 11 2018 07:38

    3       2

    Seems if anything at all is probable it is that you have fiat issued on block chain. Then watch out, big brother will have perfect vision of literally everything you do. This guy Draper is a lunatic.

  • BS

    Bevyn S.

    26 11 2018 01:54

    20       2

    Tim Draper has arguments filled with holes that are as laughingly bold as they were arrogantly delivered. I get the sense he has little understanding of the technology he so greatly believes in. An unworthy interviewee of Mike Green, in my opinion.

    On a flip note, I can't help but be reminded of the scenes in The Big Short where they main characters were doing groundwork investigation into the housing bubble. Seeing 'prophets' like this makes me believe we are far from the bottom in crypto. For the record, I believe DLT and blockchain tech truely has the potential to change the world. I will patiently be waiting for my chance to invest.

    *End rant*

  • RA

    Robert A.

    26 11 2018 01:03

    1       0

    It would be interesting to measure the Audience’s reception to this video over the last 60 days—-say when BC was 8,000....or when BC was 6,000...or say today when BC is 4,000. Just saying.

  • PG

    Philippe G.

    25 11 2018 20:06

    2       0

    Great to see Mike Green again!!

  • RH

    ROBERT H.

    25 11 2018 18:49

    0       1

    Needs to give a much better explanation of how crypto will ever be "frictionless." And of how exactly how poverty-stricken third-world inhabitants will track and transact their "Satoshis."

  • RW

    Richard W.

    25 11 2018 17:53

    7       0

    Interesting discussion and useful to hear both sides of the argument. No-one knows the future of crypto currencies so rather than second guessing it's very nice to have the debate. Also, the part about his venture capital work was very interesting. Shame to give a thumbs down just because you don't like someone's point of view

  • JD

    Jeff D.

    25 11 2018 17:49

    3       1

    I'm 33 and I want US $$$$ so I can buy stuff from the baby boomers, because they have all the stuff. In 40 years the young people will buy my stuff with some currency, might be US $$$$ or BTC or ???? Who the hell knows?

  • AR

    Abishek R.

    25 11 2018 14:00

    25       3

    Mike Green has shown unbelievable discipline to see out this interview till its end with a straight face.

  • AR

    Abishek R.

    25 11 2018 13:51

    16       1

    Tim Draper did not give Mike Green the courtesy to complete his question or view point.

  • AR

    Abishek R.

    25 11 2018 13:47

    4       2

    "South African Riyad" might be more valuable than bitcoin by this time next year :)

  • HL

    HORNLONG L.

    25 11 2018 12:07

    0       1

    Bitcoin backed by gold,oil and arm forces of usa = global currency

  • JW

    J W.

    25 11 2018 12:05

    11       2

    OK, let's start an "absolute dumbest thing that Draper said" thread. I nominate:
    "And so if you do a Monte Carlo simulation here, you would be very heavy in Bitcoin, because
    even if 50-50 that I'm right, it's huge for the future."

  • RK

    Robert K.

    25 11 2018 11:21

    12       2

    Today’s BTC action is punishing Tim enough I guess. 3rd and 4th generational wealth is probably the least ‘intelligent’ and according to statistics most of it disappears by the 3rd generation. I always wondered how and this could be a good example. Tim mentions even that his daughter invests in startups only run by women. Why not bring it his idea further and invest in startups according to all sexual orientations like special investment vehicles for all the letters in LGBTQ.

  • NG

    Nicolas G.

    25 11 2018 10:09

    5       0

    Some of you may like to read about some real use cases of BTC doing what is designed to do, i.e. to protect the wealth of world citizens from the socialdemocrat, keynesian, kleptocrat politicians.
    https://cointelegraph.com/news/how-venezuela-came-to-be-one-of-the-biggest-markets-for-crypto-in-the-world

  • RI

    R I.

    25 11 2018 05:55

    13       2

    Succinctly stated, please bring back Mike Green sooner rather than later, but no need to rush back Draper.

  • JF

    Joseph F.

    25 11 2018 03:30

    1       3

    BTC/USD $3638.48, ETH/USD 105.46, LTC/USD 27,78. Crashing. Nov 24/18.

  • MH

    Michael H.

    25 11 2018 01:51

    3       1

    Gresham's "law" is a monetary theory, supported by empirical observation, that "bad" money drives "good" money out of circulation.

    If bitcoin's many problems could ever be solved, including the forks, potential regulation and so on, then I think it would qualify as a "good" currency. In that scenario, we should expect consumers would hoard it. Yet if consumers hoard it, then it can't serve as a transactional currency.

    Gold may or may not be a wise investment, but nobody's thesis for gold depends on use cases to pay for pizzas or haircuts. No clever software can fix that internal inconsistency in the bullish case for bitcoin. Either bitcoin is a transactional currency, in which case the value of the ledger "real estate" will likely be minimal relative to competing currencies, or it's an asset that retains its value over time, because of its inherent scarcity and so on. It can't be both.

  • PC

    Philip C.

    25 11 2018 01:09

    7       2

    There are lot of clever people working on cryptos, so I wouldn't bet against them, but they face huge problems.

    1. There are too may cryptos. Only a few are likely to survive.
    2. Many have forked, which reduces their trustworthiness.
    3. Prices are volatile.
    4. There are unknown parties who hold large quantities (whales).
    5. Exchanges have had security problems and are unregulated.
    6. Managing and securing private keys is difficult for non-technical users.
    7. Proof of work cryptos are a waste of electricity.
    8. Cryptos have not demonstrated that they are scalable to high transaction volumes.
    9. If cryptos become popular, governments may see them as a challenge and ban them, or regulate them out of existence.

    I hope that some cryptos will succeed, but I suspect that the ones we have now are just prototypes.

  • CN

    Charles N.

    25 11 2018 00:47

    3       1

    Lots of weak arguments from Mr. Draper, I feel:
    - Fees of storing fiat in a bank vs crypto on a physical wallet (ignoring physical currency which carries no fees but high risk, just like physical storage of bitcoin)
    - Banks get hacked but the blockchain can’t be (why not put fiat in a safe instead of a Trezor, as a way to hedge against hacking risk? Hacking risk is way higher for exchanges as well, due to mostly irreversible nature of cryptocurrency theft)
    - Cryptocurrency isn’t political (forks, which can happen at any time for any number of reasons, are extremely political and potentially destabilizing; bitcoin core’s codebase and adoption is extremely politically relevant)
    - Conversion of bitcoin to Satoshis (ignoring that the inequality is still very much preserved, merely saying “there are plenty of sub-pennies to go around if you keep moving the decimal point”)
    - 30 year olds all want bitcoin over USD (I’m <30, and I don’t) Thank you for never taking these arguments at face value or backing down with your questioning, Mike. I wish you’d had the time to push back even more. For those complaining about Mike’s 32m bitcoin comment, you’ve missed the huge amount of insight he brought to bear on this conversation over an arbitrary number.

  • mh

    matthew h.

    24 11 2018 23:51

    0       0

    why was tezos not called out at all in this interview? maybe something draper could actually talk to... but after this interview.. maybe not..

  • AW

    Aaron W.

    24 11 2018 23:26

    5       1

    Bitcoin -40% since this interview lol

  • MP

    Mark P.

    24 11 2018 22:27

    8       0

    Great job Mike in a tough interview situation. If I could up vote the interviewer and downvote the question evading, proselytising interviewee, I would have. So Mike, please don’t take my down vote as reflecting on your performance in any way. Keep up the great work.

    Mark

  • CC

    Christopher C.

    24 11 2018 21:44

    5       0

    I am by no measure a crypto or FX specialist. So when the protagonist in the argument, highlights as a use case, conversion to South African "Riad" (Saudi Riyal?) and even my ear knows the South African Rand is the currency of the land, it cast some deep shade on the argument being put forward. That being said I think there is some probable/possible merit for smaller countries population converting to crypto/ico's where volatility/mismanagement/hyperinflation is rampant and outpaces the risk/vol inherent in bitcoin/ other ICO's. That being said the biggest obstacle any currency competitors face (ico, gold, etc) in my view are sovereign seigniorage benefits currently accruing to local governments firstly, and secondly long term dependable integration back into the banking system via swift, etc. To say nothing of the risks inherent to system uptime/accessibility if the major sovereigns deem the alternatives enough of a threat and truly endeavour to stamp it out. There is massive power/privilege/momentum associated with seigniorage and those currently holding the reigns will not go quietly if at all. Perhaps those thinking goldmines/gold bullion coins will not be confiscated/deemed national security interests should the system when it collapses, be based in part on such a standard, might do well to review some not so distant history. No country is going to allow private ownership of mines which produce gold for 1000/oz and can immediately resell it on the open market (if there is on at all) for 5 or 10k. I could be wrong and invite thoughtful discussion and disagreement.

  • NI

    Nate I.

    24 11 2018 21:01

    3       0

    We'll assume for a moment that the transactional limitations of bitcoin will be solved, you still have to be delusional to think for one second that governments will give-up their printing press. You simply can't afford to be involved in military adventurism without inflation. While I wish Tim was right, I know with 99% certainty that he's wrong. Yes, of course there will be digital currency or something more "efficient/tamper-resistant" than paper/coins in the future, but it won't be bitcoin. It will be more like what Erik Townsend has labeled Orwell-coin. Governments will issue the digital currency and governments will use it to control every facet of our lives. Most importantly, governments will inflate it to further their own largesse and power. Very much like the Chinese prototype social credit system. It's horrifying and it will be rolled out bit-by-bit (pun intended) until the frogs are boiled. This isn't my science fiction, tin-foil hat, idea. New York entrepreneur and Democratic 2020 candidate Andrew Yang publicly stated that he wants to implement a system in which a government-run mobile app rewards Americans with “digital social credits” (DSCs) for good behavior. Let that sink-in. I can't wait to meet the blue-ribbon committee of "good behavior". Former FBI Director James Comey has publicly stated that he doesn't believe we are entitled to privacy of thought. Hopefully Yang is defeated, but it's coming because I don't think younger voters will recognize the threat. We aren't headed to the digital utopia envisioned by Tim, but rather a digital panopitcon with government controlling even the most trivial aspects of our daily lives. Something so horrific that not even Ayn Rand could have fathomed it.

  • BM

    Barry M.

    24 11 2018 20:07

    2       2

    I enjoyed it, the future of fiat currencies doesn`t look too good and there must be a better future in "crypto" currencies as opposed to the printing of bank notes and check books. There are a lot of thumbs down for this interview, I would be interested as to the average age of those who were displeased, above 50 I would wager :)

  • so

    steve o.

    24 11 2018 19:58

    12       0

    Such evangelical fervor from Draper! Broad proclamations about the day of reckoning and how we will all either greatly prosper through bitcoin or lose our hard earned wealth held in 'political currency'. Believe and convert before judgement day or suffer eternal wealth debasement! A bit more focus on the technology (blockchain) and actual steps in the inevitable process that Draper forecasts would be helpful for agnostics such as myself.

    This third generation VC is such an ensconced member of the moneyed aristocracy (from birth) with glittering pedigree that interviewers always show too much reverence for him and his proclamations. Green is a better interviewer than most whom I've watched interview Draper, but I wish he would have kept Draper in the secular realm and questioned his prediction for rapture.

  • MV

    Maxime V.

    24 11 2018 19:58

    8       1

    Didn’t he insult Mike by saying his interview compares with one with a high school kid? When during all the interview he never actually answered deeply to Mike’s question?

  • KB

    Kenneth B.

    24 11 2018 19:31

    0       0

    Sounds great about 15 years down the road, maybe ... I'm glad to hear the bullish case, but, wow, he's seems to be just hawking what will happen when the world collapses. Sure, maybe.

  • DR

    David R.

    24 11 2018 18:28

    5       1

    cool interview of a salesman I guess.. Draper obviously is a pusher, Green makes it clear that lack of deep thinking is traded for hype in Drapers pitch... so the old sky's the limit story, is it that difficult to be honest and realistic? Crypto needs to be reiterated more and still truly needs to stand up to world governments. Its impossible to be confident on how it all works out.

  • CB

    C B.

    24 11 2018 16:55

    3       2

    I wonder if Tim would be willing to read Erik Townsend’s new book about government sponsored crypto as the most likely future for crypto

  • MW

    Myron W.

    24 11 2018 16:38

    5       1

    Thanks to RV for bringing a different perspective - hope you don't let the anti-crypto commentators here influence you to stop bringing contrarian views.

  • MC

    Minum C.

    24 11 2018 16:25

    1       1

    Just couldn't make it to finish line on this one. Torture! How come no one's commented on the eyebrows?

  • PJ

    Peter J.

    24 11 2018 16:23

    4       1

    This was more about the political fantasies of mr Draper than it was about crypto or bitcoin. The first deep interview I've actually given a thumbs down on. Never seem to address any of Mike Greens points head on. Loads of blue sky and no substance. Mike drew the short straw getting this one.

  • PU

    Peter U.

    24 11 2018 15:10

    1       0

    His tie, his body posture, his langauage, his mindset . . . . too much of a believer in cryptos!

  • PU

    Peter U.

    24 11 2018 15:08

    1       0

    Tim is clearly all in on crypto, so much so, I sound likes a car salesman!

  • gg

    georgy g.

    24 11 2018 14:11

    0       3

    So many real interesting investing opportunities out there that to even stop to think about btc seems like a colossal waste of time

  • RM

    Russell M.

    24 11 2018 14:06

    9       0

    Must be hard to work with Mr Draper always talking never listening. And always seeing what could become, but unable to consider any more difficult outcomes. Hopefully someone else is managing risk.

  • FV

    Fredrik V.

    24 11 2018 08:52

    0       0

    In a free economy someone need to take the other side. I take the other side. To defend crypto, you don’t have to defend bitcoin and this is the main point I disagree on. The bitcoin tie just underline my argument.

  • TH

    Timo H.

    24 11 2018 08:39

    8       3

    Mr. Draper is yet another guy, who fell in love with the DEMO of the greatest innovation in decades and stopped thinking there. The real innovation is elsewhere, quite a bit forward from Bitcoin. For example, in Finland, we just launched a proof-of-concept network for fully decentralized issuance and trading of non-listed company shares using a combination of two different DLT technologies. No cryptocurrencies, utility tokens, stock exchanges, custodians or clearing services are needed and the solution is 100% compliant with all existing laws and regulation from the start. Furthermore, there are no scalability or privacy issues, that are inherent to the first-gen blockchain technologies. Bitcoin disruption just got disrupted :-)

    https://www.tieto.com/en/newsroom/all-news-and-releases/corporate-news/2018/11/asiakastieto-nordea-op-privanet-and-tieto-to-digitalize-trading-of-non-listed-company-shares/

  • RE

    Rachel E.

    24 11 2018 08:29

    5       2

    Amazing, how people’s psychology changes as price goes down. Bitcoin at $19K, everyone loved it, now price down everyone hates it. Never follow crowd!!!!!!

    Go back & read & watch all interviews just a year ago about Bitcoin. Bitcoin is the future and time will tell who is right.

  • KR

    Kieran R.

    24 11 2018 07:09

    12       8

    Mike Green is a legend. Draper is a tool and provided no useful arguments or insights

  • CR

    Cristian R.

    24 11 2018 05:48

    9       1

    At World Crypto Con in Las Vegas.

    Says about all you need to know.

    PS I'm thirty.

  • MK

    Mike K.

    24 11 2018 04:27

    19       4

    Too many poorly unsupported comments. I really tried to stay positive on the interview, but frankly Mike Green owned this conversation. No clear or strong points were made by Mr. Draper

  • MR

    Marc R.

    24 11 2018 03:44

    21       1

    A lot of people are mocking for draper for coming from money and that this is how he is wealthy. His history is irrelevant. He can't stay on topic and pivots to his talking points instead of answering the questions posed to him. He acts and speaks like a politician and these are not the guests we should have on here. Anyone can tell he is not a self-critical deep thinker from watching this interview. I have a small percentage allocated to bitcoin as I think it has a chance to be something much bigger than it is but I wish Draper would quit speaking on the subject.

  • LP

    Laurence P.

    24 11 2018 03:25

    29       3

    Wow! Big thumbs up for Mike’s iron-clad patience with this self-important clown. I’m a big fan of bitcoin, but Draper’s one dimensional, intellectually-lazy responses to Mike’s (as usual) well prepared, thought provoking questions brought this quote to mind: “I made my money the old fashioned way, I inherited it.”

  • PG

    Philip G.

    24 11 2018 00:38

    4       0

    As an owner of various crypto assets, including Bitcoin, I still think Tim is naive... I own a lot more gold than crypto but it never hurts to cover your bases...

  • PG

    Philip G.

    24 11 2018 00:38

    6       0

    As an owner of various crypto assets, including Bitcoin, I still think Tim is naive... I own a lot more gold than crypto but it never hurts to cover your bases...

  • PK

    Phil K.

    24 11 2018 00:17

    7       0

    Tim might have some valid points but please learn to behave like an adult. Interupting the whole time and surounding questions all the time does make him sound like a kid fanboy and loose any credibility. Answering Mikes very good questions with your insights would have been great. Did not help that Mike who normally is brilliant was not on top of this topic. The first time I felt watching a RV video made me loose time...

  • RK

    Robert K.

    24 11 2018 00:01

    7       2

    As a libertarian I sympathize with Tim a lot. He must be in lot of pain right now.
    He is obviously pushing Bitcoin specifically and it is hard not to discount the fact that he is heavily invested in them.
    Block-chain allows creation of private monies and that is beautiful. It will be a gazillion of them available and Bitcoin will be one of them. It will come back a full circle where people realize it is probably still better to rely on (improved) existing structures rather then nerds in Silicon Valley micro-dosed with LSD. Lot of the "disruptive" ideas indeed come out of ignorance. Bitcoin was a success while it was in the underground before it was hijacked by wall street. It is now on the radar of regulators and there is no way governments will be willing to give up their money printing monopolies.

  • az

    adr z.

    23 11 2018 23:34

    21       2

    Honestly wish i could thumb down multiple times. This guy does not have a well thought out... anything. On crypto, geopolitics nor macro.

    Utterly dissapointed, seems more like a salesman

  • JH

    Jacqueline H.

    23 11 2018 23:21

    7       0

    Good job Mike Green! All your interviews are good, but this one (IMHO) was more of a challenge than the rest...

  • PG

    Petter G.

    23 11 2018 22:53

    4       0

    Thanks RV, great to see that you're sticking with the crypto theme even through bear markets ;) However, please also bring on people like Andreas Antonopoulos or Tuur Demeester (I know he's be on the air before) that also know a lot about the technology. For instance, a sidechain was recently released by Blockstream which allows tokenized assets on top of bitcoin (tokenized fiat currencies for instance). It would be great to hear some discussions about these types of subjects because these technical features are the building blocks that the future economy will rely on (if bitcoin ever lives up to it's promise that is).

  • dd

    david d.

    23 11 2018 22:32

    6       4

    Tim Draper is going to lose all his money, its crazy !!! I bet he is buying more as bitcoin goes to zero

  • dd

    david d.

    23 11 2018 22:22

    9       3

    What people say does not matter, what matters is what they do. I don't know a single 30 year old that owns bitcoin.

  • GF

    Gordon F.

    23 11 2018 21:55

    9       1

    I love the vision Tim expresses, but I long ago learned that just because I like something, or feel that good should always triumph over evil, or the more efficient over the less efficient, doesn't mean that it will happen. Governments currently control currency, which gives them tremendous power. If they decide Bitcoin is really a threat (and it seems that they are starting to), all they have to do is outlaw the digital currencies. If it becomes illegal to link your bank account to any digital currency exchange, and serious fines are levied for any unauthorized crypto payments, then digital currencies will cease being useful. There may still be some marginal use, but if they are illegal by definition, they will be worthless to any law-abiding person.
    This is not to say that governments will coordinate to accomplish this, but they certainly could, and if they feel that they are any threat to their power, I have no doubt that they will.
    Nathan Rothschild is reported to have said, "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws." IMO governments and national banks are not going to tolerate any serious threat to that power. I wish it were otherwise, but...

  • SS

    Stan S.

    23 11 2018 21:51

    11       0

    A few comments:

    -My respect for Mike Green grows with each interview I watch. I definitely enjoy when he challenges the interviewee and does not just politely move on the next question/topic. With respect to the other interviewers on RV, he seems the best prepared for the most complex subjects.
    -I agree with Mike's closing comments that many of the critical issues surrounding mass adoption of crypto haven't been thought through or are waved away too easily. The key issue is that governments aren't going to willingly relinquish their power of their currencies.
    -I was interested in Tim's views on a deeper future wherein governing structures as we know them seem not to exist or aren't as necessary or have far greater flexibility in terms of application. I'm skeptical but interested.

  • JH

    Jesse H.

    23 11 2018 21:28

    4       0

    ...they can play on his level. Sorry to be blunt, but that is my take anyway. Then again, it isn’t always easy to find interviewees at his level!

  • JH

    Jesse H.

    23 11 2018 21:26

    13       0

    Good job by Mike Green as always, but agree with some folks that this interview is hard to watch due to the apparent mismatch in intellects. When you have Mike Green interview folks, please make sure

  • WM

    William M.

    23 11 2018 21:23

    1       0

    Two very bright guys. Good back and forth about bitcoin, but it would be great to have a second episode where they don't even mention anything related to crypto currencies. I would love to hear more insights from Tim about venture capital, innovation etc.

  • JO

    Joseph O.

    23 11 2018 21:01

    13       0

    The difference in intellect is almost comical. Draper's mind is shockingly simplistic.

  • PP

    Peter P.

    23 11 2018 20:55

    4       0

    Appears less than one hundred viewers for the Friday RV event, and probably because Crypto in the title.

    Loved this interview and agree with other comments that Michael Green did an incredible job at raising arguments without the interview becoming disagreeable - both expressed their views to the fullest. Quite clear the threat that Crypto, if taken up globally, poses to governments.

    For Michael Green - the answer is that every government will need to run a deflationary surplus, instead of our current inflationary deficits, and only then can government fiat trump crypto. Between the deficit world we live in (ponzi finance as the only surplus is the 0.001% elites/banks) & the surplus/no deficit/deflationary future is the destruction of $270bn in global debt which has its mirror in “wealth” - $450mm recently discovered DaVinci paintings, and $10-100mm homes in NY or London that were much more affordable (the same home) 30 years ago.

    Michael did not address the unbanked issue that half the world lacks banking and more generally property rights, and Bitcoin gives those people property rights. Remember it is not enough to keep crypto in an US “e-bank” like Coinbase who will now report any transfer out of Coinbase - above a few hundred dollars - as must of having been for a “purchase” or service rendered and so transfers in BTC below $1000 not only need to be reported but you may owe sales taxes on those transfers for services bought from an unknown party. This just points to the beginning of the endgame for our current system.

    I have watched every interview Michael Green has ever done, and recommend everyone watch them more than once, but I loved the idea that an expert in derivatives, who has recently made a great win betting against the VIX ETN instruments & that those gains came from re-valuations after hours, when his markets were effectively closed being the defender of the “real” world & that Mr. Draper lives in a synthetic universe. I believe Bill Miller has recommended books on this dichotomy including John Searle’s “The Construction of Social Reality”

    Bravo RV & Michael Green once again.

  • TE

    Tito E.

    23 11 2018 20:22

    6       0

    Leaving thoughts on DLT / blockchain aside, this was a good conversation but felt slightly lightweight. I cant help feeling Michaels questions on the corporeal nature of our lives (and of power systems) were skirted around.

    - The vast majority our lives are lived in our bodies and our minds, not in digital space. Qualia unchanged. Digital space just does more and more of our admin (including money). We do well to remember this.

    - to follow; If you have greater 'corporeal power' than me you can harm my body or throw my body in jail - overriding the power of a smartcontract. I feel this was the clash Michael was referring to wrt old powers (like gvmts) not being keen to cede control to distributed systems

  • PM

    Plan M.

    23 11 2018 19:48

    15       0

    Draper conducted a kind of filibuster on Green that left me frustrated. I wanted to have Mike put forth a question or reply to a statement from Draper and have him respond. Instead, Draper talked over Green so often that I felt he was trying to steer the conversation back to a place of comfort for him.

    It was good viewing nevertheless.

  • AM

    Andrew M.

    23 11 2018 19:40

    12       0

    Mike did a great job trying to elicit answers to the questions many of us have regarding the adoption of Bitcoin as a widely used currency for transactions. However, Mr. Draper made no effort to clarify what money is in it's essence. Is Bitcoin money? If Bitcoin is not money, then it is just another faddish device. Also, he dodged any discussion of why governments would allow Bitcoin to freely be used and transacted across borders. When things get dicey, capital controls will be a challenge for Bitcoin. I was hoping that Mr. Draper would bring a new, cogent perspective to Bitcoin. Not so. In fact, I think his arguments are so flimsy that I am even more convinced that Bitcoin, notwithstanding the blockchain innovation, will go nowhere.

  • MD

    Murph D.

    23 11 2018 19:38

    22       0

    If Mike Green is involved, I am tuning in start to finish regardless of topic.

    Such a class act handling all the interruptions and soft answers.

    It’s time to get him back in the interviewee’s chair!

    Murph

  • JM

    Jared M.

    23 11 2018 18:36

    0       6

    Thanks to Tim for standing his ground and speaking his mind. Very insightful and thought provoking commentary. Everyone should realize that eventually he will be right whether that takes 5 years, 50, or 500, embrace technology or perish.

  • rr

    rlw r.

    23 11 2018 18:10

    3       0

    A smoking topic, yes Mike please pursue even while you are constantly interrupted for not cheerleading. And to be fair, the silicon echo chamber has many ideas and certainly worthy of much consideration. It’s likely easier to agree bloatware governments are pass due date.

  • DS

    David S.

    23 11 2018 17:33

    1       0

    I would love to see a follow-up with Mike Green on if and how venture capitalism is changing during the current stock market downturn. DLS

  • DS

    David S.

    23 11 2018 17:22

    1       1

    Mr. Draper is a real true believer in Bitcoin and good to hear his views. I know that he will continue to be successful. I am, however, very skeptical as the cost of mining goes up and governments gain better control of using Bitcoin history to track, find and arrest felons. Poverty in the world will not be eliminated if Bitcoin became mainstream. People can be scammed with Bitcoin just as easily as in fiat currency and hackers will steal more and more Bitcoins at every opportunity. Bitcoin is a great idea and really benefited the development of blockchain technology. As long as there is an illegal use for Bitcoin it will survive, but the future of digital currencies is in fiat money like Bitdollar, Bityuan and Biteuro as the IMF is suggesting. DLS

  • CM

    Carlos M.

    23 11 2018 16:54

    3       0

    love this guy, as every visionary he thinks in diffrerent terms and passionate about what he does. it is funny to see mike with him because they have completely different approaches.

  • PZ

    Petr Z.

    23 11 2018 16:52

    2       8

    the interview could be much better should the interviewer be more crypto literate!!!

  • SD

    Sebastien D.

    23 11 2018 16:46

    18       3

    Congratulation to Mike for keeping his cool in front of an interviewee constantly interrupting him. Mr Draper is enthousiatic about the crypto space and probably well read the Sovereign Individual, but it does not always seems coherent or deeply understood. Overall I felt that serious questions from Mike where avoided by chit chat about what great good crypto will bring to the world.

  • DM

    Dom M.

    23 11 2018 16:43

    3       0

    History shows that no one gives up power willingly

  • RM

    Richard M.

    23 11 2018 16:39

    17       2

    Loved Mike Green as usual, not so impressed by Mr Draper. He was full of old-school buzzwords and hype. Totally unrealistic in his future views of crypto IMHO. If he hadn't inherited great wealth I wonder if he would have still been the success that he is in Silicon Valley?

    Would have really liked for Mike to ask Mr Draper (at the end/wrap-up of the interview) for lessons learned with his Theranos experience (to see if he actually learned anything).

  • MW

    Moritz W.

    23 11 2018 16:01

    1       0

    Great interview :) Many thanks!

    ...for the record: 1 Bitcoin = 100m Satoshis

  • BJ

    Brendan J.

    23 11 2018 15:05

    2       0

    Anyone else care to give their Bitcoin prediction in 2022? - serious question.

  • WP

    Warren P.

    23 11 2018 14:58

    1       0

    5G may be the "new society" as there are tons of use cases that can easily be envisioned. Bitcoin has a few use cases, blockchain has a few more use cases. Bitcoin/Blockchain has low barriers to entry and thus is "low hanging" fruit compared to 5G;

  • CQ

    Colin Q.

    23 11 2018 14:53

    5       2

    The Luddites turned out to be 100% correct...

  • SP

    Stephen P.

    23 11 2018 14:12

    7       1

    I want my Bitcoin interviewers to know how many bitcoins can ever be produced, roughly how many are produced already, and familiarity with the concept of halving of the block reward. I want them to understand the annual transaction volume is already of order $1 trillion. And some vague idea at least about mining and proof of work and the difference between mined and non-mined coins.

  • SH

    Steve H.

    23 11 2018 14:04

    10       6

    Digital currencies controlled by central banks are inevitable. Crypto in its current form has no long-term future.

  • EB

    Enrico B.

    23 11 2018 13:26

    13       1

    I am exactly 30 years old and my portfolio says that I prefer USD over BTC.

  • RD

    Rodger D.

    23 11 2018 13:00

    22       0

    Interesting interview, while he had the outline of a number of interesting positive general points, it was very much big picture stuff and Tim struggled a bit to articulate how the visions he has for the future will come to pass. In many ways it felt like Mike Green has thought more deeply about how the crypto space might evolve and the challenges it could/will face in the next 5-10 years (32 vs 21 million flub aside). So he had good follow up questions & pushback that Tim maybe isn't so used to . Would be very interested in seeing Mike sit down for a long form chat with Andreas Antonopoulus.

  • DS

    David S.

    23 11 2018 12:56

    10       0

    Great to see Michael Green back interviewing . Thanks, DLS

  • DS

    David S.

    23 11 2018 12:55

    8       2

    Bitcoin works well in Malta because of all the money laundering. Somehow a journalist was murdered in Malta who was writing about island leaders profiting from global corruption. Mr. Draper may like the freedom from the rule of law in Malta, but would he move his family there? DLS

  • VC

    Vince C.

    23 11 2018 12:50

    3       0

    Engaging conversation, two intelligent men and meeting of differing approach/perspectives. Thanks Real Vision!

  • CD

    Chris D.

    23 11 2018 12:25

    10       0

    Mike Green? Instant like!

  • EP

    Eli P.

    23 11 2018 12:24

    7       13

    please -no more pump and dump !!!!-bitcoim and the rest of the crypto are worthless .we want gold !!!

  • DP

    David P.

    23 11 2018 11:53

    5       0

    A very scary distopian future exposed by Mr Draper. The bitcoin as he envisions it has the potential to be a global currency that would take down government that would be less and less able to sell security in the long term for costs in the short term. A bigger unified system will also exacerbate the current "globalist" winner takes all environment where power shifts from states to large corporations.

  • FG

    Fred G.

    23 11 2018 11:26

    4       1

    Only Mike Green could have done this interview, and so glad he did. Fascinating insight into Mr Draper's world view. Excited for future possibilities.

    From a practical point of view Bitcoin is already far cheaper and is easier to send funds internationally compared to fiat currency. It is not hard to see how it's adoption could increase further. Once it reaches a critical mass it may well move 'fast and change things,' just like the other technologies described in the interview (e.g uber). This is not the first time in history that this has happened. Ironically, the idea of a western democratic government is very new in relative terms and would never have been imagined by the feudal serfs the generation before. In this case the western monarchs had no choice but to give away some power at first as a compromise and then gradually all of their effective power.