The terms risk-on and risk-off are tossed around liberally by market participants — but what do they actually mean, and how can you determine truly whether the market is in one camp or the other? In this interview, Michael Gayed, author of the Lead-Lag Report and portfolio manager of the ATAC Rotation Fund, answers those questions and explains why risk-off does not guarantee a market downturn. He also describes the backtested indicators of treasury and utility outperformance that he uses to determine the current state of risk-on or risk-off, and how he manages his portfolio accordingly. Additionally, Gayed gives his outlook on the question of continued outperformance of large-cap US equities vs small-caps and emerging markets and discusses the damage zero commission trading is doing to investors in the form of overtrading. Filmed on August 11, 2020.