The Big Story – Tiananmen to Hong Kong: The Fight for Democracy

Published on
September 30th, 2019
Duration
22 minutes


The Big Story – Tiananmen to Hong Kong: The Fight for Democracy

The Big Story ·
Featuring

Published on: September 30th, 2019 • Duration: 22 minutes

This episode of The Big Story delves into the most crucial financial and geopolitical story in the world right now—Hong Kong. A series of pro-democracy protests over this past summer have rocked Asia’s preeminent global financial center. The movement, which eclipsed the 100-day mark, is a clash between democracy and authoritarianism - at a focal point where East meets West. Why do these protests matter for the international community? What would happen if the US fails to support Hong Kong? How will Beijing ultimately respond to the most severe defiance of their authority since Tiananmen Square in 1989? These are the pressing questions in this hard-hitting Real Vision mini-documentary. Filmed throughout September 2019.

Comments

Transcript

  • DC
    Daniello C.
    14 October 2019 @ 12:49
    HK people have only once chance to preserve their democracy. This is the only moment for them.
  • LL
    Lukee L.
    12 October 2019 @ 00:00
    "The people should not be afraid of their government, the government should be afraid of the people"
  • DC
    Dave C.
    8 October 2019 @ 19:34
    Lawyer Lawrence Ma claims the US has been supporting the HK protests via groups such as the NED https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/10/article/tracking-foreign-interference-in-hong-kong/
  • XF
    Xavier F.
    4 October 2019 @ 23:15
    great piece and interesting comments Thank you all
  • WC
    Wilson C.
    4 October 2019 @ 13:49
    IMHO, this video reflects the common narrative of Hong Kong fighting for democracy against China authoritanism, which is also prevalent in HK media like SCMP and the chinese Apple Daily (owned by Jimmy Lai, a well known anti-China person). As an overseas chinese living here since the mid-90's, let me share some local insights that might be useful to RV readers, and hopefully a more nuanced perspective re: HK and China. I'll unpack the HK situation as follows: Why are HK people (esp the younger 20's-30's generation) so angry? The trigger to the protests - Extradition Bill Why the anti-China hatred? Is the protests subverted by foreign agents? The Silent Majority What would China do? Does Hong Kong have a way out? I'll post in multiple parts due to it's length.
    • WC
      Wilson C.
      4 October 2019 @ 13:51
      Why are HK people (esp the younger 20's-30's generation) so angry? No upwards mobility Lost Competitiveness as a city Unresponsive/Ineffective Govt (aligned with tycoon/business interests vs the people) Failing local education system - Unprepared for today's market HK has always been a place to make money, never about politics (makes a lot of sense given under British rule, people didn't have a voice regardless).  It was Asia's city, people made a ton of money and partied in Lan Kwai Fong.  With the opening of China, lots of local HK'ers went to China to make money helping lift the country up, not only architects, lawyers, business people, but even ordinary services like hair stylists, restaurants, etc.  You feel you have the opportunity for upward mobility.  HK'ers generally didn't pay attention to/get involved in politics.  Make $$, buy a bigger flat, buy 2 flats.  Over the last 10+ years, as in Joseph Cheng's interview, people don't feel they can do better than their parent's generation (mainly due to property prices).  In HK, you are expected to take care of your parents (lack of social support/small pensions) as they age (many give a portion of their salaries to their parents), yet now your parents need to help you make the deposit for buying a flat (if you are so lucky) or worse, you are married yet still live at home.  Add to this, Singapore has now become Asia's city.  So HK pivoted to being the gateway to China.  Now, as Jim Rogers mention in his interview, it's not critical (important yes) for HK to be the gateway.  HK is no longer the shipping hub, the manufacturing hub, the tech hub (it's shenzhen), the financial hub (shanghai), etc.  So we rely more and more on chinese tourism/chinese money (at least this is the part that is visible to the average HK'er). The housing situation best reflects people's opinion that the govt works for the tycoons.  With salaries stagnant, and rising property prices (with the influx of chinese money), HK property affordability is the worst in the world, 20.9X annual income.  Next least affordable market is Vancouver at 12.6X.  Public housing policy has been a failure for the past several administrations (since Tung Chee Hwa).  When you have an administration that allows developers to sell nano flats (150 sq ft, smaller than a typical US parking space of 9 ft x 18 ft) for > $500K USD, with average annual salary of $30K USD, it's reasonable to assume the govt works for the tycoons, not the people.  If you graduate from the local education system, chances are you have passable english and mandarin skills but not fluent.  This limits mobility into senior management roles in global/western companies and same for mainland chinese companies in HK (with the rise of China).  You end up toiling in the tycoon's conglomerates, who employ a large % of HK workforce without a bright future.  As an example, Li Ka Shing (richest man in HK) Cheung Kong owns electricity utility, property developer, telecom, ports, hotels, supermarket Park'n'Shop, pharmacy Watson's, shopping malls, you get the idea.  A small group of tycoons own the HK economy, and thus the govt via the functional constituents.
    • WC
      Wilson C.
      4 October 2019 @ 13:53
      The trigger to the protests - Extradition Bill The extradition law triggered concerns from business groups and HK Bar Association, mainly centered around the fairness of the chinese legal system (with a political bias towards CCP), while the average citizen fear was you can be extradited to China for swearing at Xi Jinping.  Post the 30 May 2019 amended changes, the extradition bill was modified to limit the types of extradition crimes (to most severe types like murder), and with offences punishable with imprisonment of more than 7 years, and triable on indictment in Hong Kong, and only accept extradition requests from mainland's top authority (Supreme People's Court).  The recently passed "Fake News" law in Singapore (Protection from Online Falsehoods and Manipulation Act) is a more serious law for citizens with up to 10 years imprisonment for falsehoods, let alone serious crimes (ie, murder). IMHO, I don't see this extradition law having any impact to ordinary HK'ers, given the bill conditions but the HK govt did a poor job in explaining the bill to the people and they try to rush the bill through instead of giving it the due process and consultation thus reinforcing the fear of HK'ers re: China's erosion of HK rights and that HK Govt is a Beijing puppet administration. It was likely the trigger to long building resentment and frustration of people rather than concern about chinese police swooping into HK to take you away to a mainland prison.
    • WC
      Wilson C.
      4 October 2019 @ 15:16
      Why the anti-China hatred? The local HK'ers I see with on a daily basis, taxi drivers, wet market shops, badminton coach, cha chaan teng (local eateries) etc do not hate China, the older generation (ie, 40+, grandparents) do not hate China.  But the so-called post-1997 generation generally dislike China (if not hate).  These protests have caused a split in families (older vs younger). IMHO, there are a couple of reasons (likely more) for the dislike: Perception of being over-run by mainland chinese We were better, and now they are Lack of understanding HK history (reflection of the education system) Post the 1997 handover, the flood gates were opened to mainland chinese investors, immigrants and money. There was a huge inflow driving up property prices, tourists jamming up shopping malls, restaurants, tourist spots, and 150 immigrants per day, so much so that as a local resident, you felt your home has been occupied by an invading force (the derogatory HK term for them was "locust"). It is estimated > 1.5M of the ~ 8M HK population are recent chinese immigrants, with the majority being low-income wage earners. So you see mandarin speaking chinese everywhere, you see the affluent vistors buy all the fashion labels you can't afford, you see the wealthy purchase multiple HK flats to stash their wealth, it's unavoidable. HK'ers had a kind of big brother arrogance towards the mainland chinese, it was so because Hong Kong and its people were more advanced, better city, better quality of service, etc than China no doubt. Now the tables have turned, the top tier of chinese people are smarter, more driven, aggressive such that as parents we worried about how our kids will compete with the next generation of chinese grads. In all areas, China has advanced faster than HK, anyone of us who visits China regularly see the transformation and upgrades in infrastructure, service, innovation (read Kai Fu Lee's AI Super-Powers book). We are no longer better than mainland chinese, we are falling behind. This can build resentment. In 1997 HK GDP was $23,442 per capita, 2017 $38,370 63% more. But the wealth distribution is unequal. In 1993 HK GDP was 27% of China's economy, in 2017 < 3%. So we have an increase in wealth that the average person hasn't benefit at the same time HK's contribution to China's economy has shrunk drastically as the rest of the country ramped. HK depends on China for water, electricity, vegetables / food, 70% of our GDP is China-related. But the younger generation do not appreciate this. They don't know/remember HK under British rule, the 1967 riots and killings, etc. They are not taught about China/chinese history, thus they don't have a connection to China. They believe they are westernized citizens (which gives comfort to "we are still better than chinese"), which clashes with the older generation's who lived under and through British rule.
    • WC
      Wilson C.
      4 October 2019 @ 15:36
      Is the protests subverted by foreign agents? I read about how the protesters are supported by nefarious state groups, ie, USA or UK causing trouble in HK. It's a narrative that China spins. While there may be some truth to it, given the public sympathy from other countries to people like Joshua Wong, Claudia Mo, pan-dems, there is another perspective written by local cantonese writers on the protests. The argument is that this is a war between Xi Jinping's team and Deng Xaoping (previous CCP leader) team. Xi Jinping's govt is on an anti-corruption drive, even among CCP members (it may be a convenient way to take out your enemies). There is a lot of mainland money in HK, there was no limit to the amount of cash you can bring from China into HK until last year 2018, I have property agent friends who used to tell stories of daughters of small town mayors buying flats with suitcases of cash, can't imagine the amount of wealth the higher level officers have. It is said there is a cadre of chinese living in luxury serviced apartments at the 6-stars Four Seasons HK. The point being the mainland chinese who have left China moving their gains in HK are the ones most concerned about the extradition law, especially if their wealth were achieved via corruption. Thus they have the most to lose if the law passes, and they are the supporters behind the radicals.
    • WC
      Wilson C.
      4 October 2019 @ 16:03
      The Silent Majority Is there a silent majority? Are all HK'ers supportive of the protests? If not, why are they silent? IMHO, HK people are very pragmatic. When Carrie Lam try to rush the extradition bill through the legislative council and the bill was sensationalized (chinese secret police will whisk you away for swearing at CCP!), people came out en masse in a peaceful protest march. Though it wasn't 2 million as debunked by a reuters news crew (using analytics, cameras to come up with an objective count vs the one provided by the organizers, and the one by police. you can google it). That has morphed into the ugly riots and violence you see happening every week, which in my circle of people do not support, and I've not meet anyone who does (though it may be I'm a different age group) and are tired and pissed about the vandalizing of our subways, buildings, petrol bombs. As Joseph Cheng said in his interview, generally we are for peaceful protests but the current smaller group of radicals mixed with secondary school students, university students, 20-30's workers providing morale support for wanton destruction is out of control (so called leaderless). Staying silent is to avoid getting their attention and being bullied. The radicals have besieged police family dwellings, shouting obscenities and shining lasers into their flats including children. Police children are harassed in schools, people who are pro-govt (not the same as pro-Beijing in many cases) have their identities and family info shared online (doxxing). They are trashing MTR subway stations because they stop running their trains (after Beijing's intervention) so they can't easily get away after causing trouble. This week, they've cause trouble at Maxim's restaurants and trash Starbucks (Maxim is the licensee) because one of the executives spoke out pro-government. It's ironic that they exhibit behavior of the Red Guard (cultural revolution), of the China that they despise.
    • WC
      Wilson C.
      4 October 2019 @ 16:20
      What would China do? This is a concern that China would roll in the PLA, and cause a repeat of Tianamen Square in 1989. It's a great way to stir up emotions, and I do believe some of the radicals actually want it to happen (and if you believe Deng Xiaoping's team is involved, definitely what they would like to see). I believe the chances are low (never say never though) because: CCP has learnt the lessons of Tianamen Square. It may not appear to be so publicly nor acknowledge or taught in chinese history (similar to Japan re: wartime atrocities in China and Korea), but it doesn't mean they have ignored it. HK is important but not critical to China. The fallout from military intervention in HK is not justified by the 3% GDP contribution to the economy. As Jim Rogers said in his interview, HK is less significant but still valued. I believe China will support, but let HK fix its own problems. HK created the mess, you clean it up (thus likely refusing to let Carrie Lam resign and pass the issue to someone else). On the silent majority point, having a million people do a peaceful protest march was a wake up call to the govt that the bill was badly handled. While the recent violence has been caused by (estimates) few hundred to a few thousand rioters, note that given the HK population, 2,000 radicals equate to only 0.025% of the 7.8M population.
    • WC
      Wilson C.
      4 October 2019 @ 16:51
      Does Hong Kong have a way out? Many of my friends fear for HK's future and the next generation as the intensity of the violence escalates. It is not clear how it ends well. With a crackdown, the underlying issues are still there. You can argue it's gotten worst since Occupy Central in 2014 (definitely the wealth gap is worst). HK people have always been very pragmatic, we want autonomy, which may/may not be democracy. It has been clear that the govt administration starting with Donald Tsang was more pro-business than pro-people, personally I felt the HK Govt letting greedy property developers build 150 sq ft nano flats all in the name of free market, was a trigger point. We would need to work through some big rocks: HK Govt Leaders. Carrie Lam and like are life-long civil servants. With 30+ years, ie under British rule, they are not trained to be civil leaders, they are experienced civil administrators. Big difference and you can see the lack of leadership starting with Donald Tsang (3 administrations ago). We need a strong HK leader. Listen and Represent the People. We have to trust in the autonomy of running HK and that our CE and team is for the people, not only for the business or China. It doesn't have to be OR, in fact most people want AND (for the people and business and china) Break the power of the tycoons influence. Whether it is reforming the functional constituents in the legislative council (now it's like paid lobbyists in the council), or opening up markets to competition something has to be done. Funny enough, it seems Beijing is aware and supportive of this, given the recent articles supporting taking back land from the tycoons. Address people's livelihood concerns. It sucks to be a young person now. Address the future of HK, the housing issues, provide hope for upward mobility. for example, we can make 1C2S work, how autonomy can work within the CCP structure, this will make HK sucessfull and China as well. Getting the Pro-Beijing and the Pan-Dems to work together for the better of HK society. This is a tough nut. It seems we have the same problem other countries (incl. USA) have, and that is parties don't want to work together. Each side needs to score points, and always take the other side of the argument. There is no middle-ground. If you've read this far, thank you for taking the time and I hope this has helped understand the HK situation. I leave you with this Lee Kuan Yew (as I'm reading his book "The Singapore Story"): "You take a poll of any people. What is it they want? The right to write an editorial as you like? They want homes, medicine, jobs, schools."
  • TB
    Tim B.
    3 October 2019 @ 14:06
    Well done, although the truth will difficult to accept for some.
  • VL
    Vincent L.
    2 October 2019 @ 19:55
    I'm from Hong Kong myself (Tai Po) and it's a real shame RV hasn't talked about the underlying issues facing ordinary younger HKers. Heavy-handed police force, encroachment of liberties (e.g. kidnapping of book sellers) and hostility towards the pro-democracy camp? Yeah, that's the mainstream consensus view. Except.... these were also issues before 1997 i.e. Britain was very repressive (and racist) against my grandfather's generation during the anti-colonial riots in the late 1960s and refused any form of democracy until literally a year or two before the handover. I'm not even sure if former Governor Patten did it out of altruism given his hostility toward the Brexit vote. What's difference though? At least between the 1970s and 1990s, the trajectory in terms of living standards was up. Basically the local HK population put up with the British, and white privilege, in the same way the people of mainland China put up with the Chinese govt because there was a tacit agreement: your living standards are only going to get better. You could even say Britain got lucky and left in time, because Taiwan and Korea underwent a political revolution in the mid 1990s. Well, since the Asian Financial Crisis and the China opening up, life in HK never got better. It was crisis after crisis. It's now nearly impossible, if you're a millennial, to own your own property, wages have been stagnant in real terms for nearly two decades, the cost of living is out of control, the economy is hideously geared towards real estate and finance, many of the most prestigious jobs are white people from Europe, Australia, North Amercia and Japan. There's literally no prospect of a better life if you're not from a wealthy family. To make matters worse, living standards, in qualitative terms, now absolutely suck: pollution is out of control, there's severe over-crowding, and the local's people's manners and morals have just plummeted (Trump-like lack of restraint) - just look at the rioters behaviour, did the civil rights movement in India, America or Ireland behave like this? There's now random beatings against ordinary civilians, arson attacks, etc. Simply put, you combine all of these variables, combined with a gruelling education system that robs you of your youth, and you have a tinderbox. Hong Kong was going to explode sooner or later, the extradition law was just the trigger. This is why protests have continued despite govt's decision to drop the bill. I'm not sure even if universal suffrage will solve the situation because the DAB and pro-Beijing camp trounced the pro-democracy parties in the most recent election (for seats which people can vote for) because the latter have completely failed with bread and butter issues. In fact a prominent democratic party member had the gall to fake a Beijing kidnapping to try and win votes (Howard Lam) No real difference between the Yellow vest movement in France and Macron's decision to hike petrol tax. Macron has cancelled the tax hike and offered all sorts of bribes to the electorate and yet the French are protesting nearly a year later. Seismic charges like in the post war years are required to change the situation.
    • LP
      Lawrence P.
      2 October 2019 @ 20:13
      Vincent, you mention there is little difference between the way HK people are being treating currently under China and the way HK people were being treated before 1997 by the British? With all due respect, as you mention you are a HKer, the key difference is the human rights track record and political system between China and Britain. Surely you cannot be arguing that basic human freedoms, civil liberties and rule of law would flourish better under China than Britain? One system is based on suppression of human dignity and the other system, with all its flaws, protects basic human rights. That is the key difference. All the other factors that you mention with regards to wealth disparity--of course that is understandable. At the same time, that is a global trend that is occurring around the world and not solely in HK, even though it is definitely the most acute in HK with the world's highest real estate prices. Would love to hear your thoughts on this.
    • DS
      David S.
      2 October 2019 @ 23:30
      Lawrence P. - I value greatly my English heritage and rule of law. England was better, however, at protecting its own. This may be the reason England is no longer a colonial power. I wish the best for all the UK and Brexit will be behind them shortly. DLS
    • LK
      Lee K.
      3 October 2019 @ 02:30
      Well said Vincent. "There's literally no prospect of a better life if you're not from a wealthy family". You could argue the HK plutocrats / property billionaires /Elites are as much to blame as anyone for perhaps the ultimate example of the 1pct dominating economic gains and resources. Stagnant, decreasing standard of living is a fact of life across the "Western economic block". Perhaps we'll see a wave of yellow jacket protests for economic equality, truly the Revolution of out time 時代革命
    • VL
      Vincent L.
      3 October 2019 @ 12:14
      Lawrence P, I have older family members, who own assets and real estate, who say that life is better now. Read about the 1960s protests, the British sent the Gurkhas to crack down on the local population, tested newly invented rubber bullets on them, closed down anti-British news outlets, tortured suspects to death under police custody and utilised brutal methods that would eventually be adopted by the Thatcher govt against the miners in the 1980s. Also, think about it - what do you think the British govt would've done back then if you tried to break up the de-facto caste system and boot out the colonial govt? There were anti-sedition laws and you couldn't just protest, like in Singapore today. How is being a second-class citizen compatible with basic human rights? If you're a local Chinese back then, you were always below the white british and the people from the indian sub-continent who were brought in to rule you. The British even refused to make Chinese an official language until the 1970s, which is one of our most basic rights. All this talk about a golden era under Britain, in terms civil liberties, is hogwash and a kind of whitewashing of history. HK, since day one, was a crown colony, whose sole purpose, like all colonies, was to serve the mother country, and Britain did whatever it took to keep control, and it simply modified its methods according to the situation. If Britain cared so much about the local's civil rights, it would've granted citizenship by now, like the Portuguese with the people of Macau, to safeguard civil liberties. But it chose not to and even threatened Portugal because the Macau people, to this day, have the right to settle in Britain under EU laws. Suppose HKers have a white face and surnames like Smith, do you think Britain will grant citizenship to the locals? The situation only started to change in the early 1970s, when Macau basically came under Chinese sovereignty, despite a Portuguese colonial govt there. Britain yearned to keep its jewel in Asia and started to make some concessions to the public and improved governance and basic rights, such as access to housing, education, health-care and allowing people with a yellow face into the colonial govt. Today the local Chinese are full citizens, that dominate the local govt and we vote for just over half of our representatives in the parliament and we can freely protest and criticise Carrie Lam (as long as its peaceful). There's definitely scope for progress, but it's slightly better than the days when an un-elected toff from England was sent over and ruled like a dictator.
    • LP
      Lawrence P.
      3 October 2019 @ 14:23
      Vincent L - Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me. It is enlightening and appreciated. I guess the ultimate goal for any free people is self-determination, For HK people to determine their own destinies. Regardless of whether HK people are better off now or under British colonial rule (which, I am sure is dependent upon their age and social class, and whether they have reaped the rewards of HK's economic growth), HK has always been a colony--either of Britain or now, China. I wonder if we were to take a poll of every single HKer--would they choose to be a colony of Britain or China in this moment in time, given only those two choices, what they would choose? Have you heard of the Lausan Collective (流傘)? They look into what HK can be if left to self-determination post Western and Chinese colonialism. https://lausan.hk/about/
  • MC
    M C.
    2 October 2019 @ 18:24
    Thanks for this....always trying to do more work around these issues as I’m an outsider (from China) and I’d like to be as informed as possible. That being said...I think it’s very interesting both here, other message boards on internet, twitter, and through co-workers that any time anything negative is said about China, local Chinese people and/or ex-pats get VERY offended. So much so, that I can’t even ask questions to try to understand. Not good or bad either way IMO, but an interesting observation nonetheless and some of that speaks for itself I guess...
  • jl
    jay l.
    2 October 2019 @ 02:30
    how do you wake people up from western propaganda?
    • AG
      AlA G.
      2 October 2019 @ 02:59
      It's like a chicken talking to a duck...I gave up...
    • jl
      jay l.
      2 October 2019 @ 05:34
      This video is so dishonest. It’s like watching Aladdin where RV edit out positive part of him and leave only the negative.
  • TP
    Timothy P.
    1 October 2019 @ 22:02
    I personally think the only reason they haven't rolled in with tanks is because Hong Kong is the only way China can access a flow of USD into the country. No one will take RMB-denominated payments, so they are reliant on USD flows into the country. This is the reason why they've recently made entreaties to investors and opened up financial markets to outside USD investment. With the current threat of delisting Chinese companies in the USA, there's a real possibility that China won't have the dollars needed to maintain the Hong Kong Dollar/USD peg, which would have enormous complications for the Chinese in general. With the Yuan loose and pushing past 7.14 in dollar terms, they're coming to the end of their trillion-RMB experiment to reflate their economy. Add in the recent surge in pork prices due to African Swine Flu decimation, you have a boiling cauldron where protests like these are just the surface of what could happen. This is going to blow, and its hard to see where it will take China next. My guess is the CCP is going to see the same demise as the former USSR given the amount of massive credit they have in their banking system. I feel for the protestors, but they're at the flashpoint of much larger economic forces that might bury them.
    • LP
      Lawrence P.
      2 October 2019 @ 14:46
      Timothy, i completely agree with you. I believe China will go through a collapse in the next few years to decade
  • DS
    David S.
    1 October 2019 @ 17:21
    Chinese's manifest destiny to regain all former "Chinese Territory" is similar to America's manifest destiny. All efforts to achieve this goal will be used. Hong Kong population 7.5 million. China population 1.5 billion. Freedom loving Chinese have been fleeing Hong Kong for years. This will continue. DLS
    • CH
      Charles H.
      1 October 2019 @ 20:09
      The world has been Chinese territory since ancient times.
  • PB
    Pieter B.
    1 October 2019 @ 14:07
    Very interesting! Thank you!
  • FP
    Felix P.
    1 October 2019 @ 04:33
    Well...as a Soko(South Korean), I worry about this going to be a nasty consequence. Unfortunately, as the history of Northeast Asia has shown Chinese obsession to sustain one unified political structure would never disappear. It carved since they achieved the first political unity (Xin Dynasty). To them, maintaining the unified political structure will be the primary aim, not a human right, economy successful and sort of. In my personal opinion, if China decides to crack down Hong Kong, that means policymakers in mainland choose to sustain political unity, not the economic success for their people. Chinese severely fears the consequence of the disintegration of the nation. To them, the fear of disintegrating and chaos would be more significant than the fear of the authoritarian system. Its history shows full of the age of warlords (From Ancient to before the foundation of PRC). So to China, Hong Kong issue might be not only the short-term political instability but also the fatal problem to impact its core political sustainability. Finally, I think Xi's decision that becoming a dictator seems like a lockdown strategy to treat multilayers of crisis. If China is confident the economy and political stability, it never attempts to threat Hong Kong's autonomy. Instead, it successfully launched its propaganda machine and advertised its success of authoritarian model by merging Hong Kong peacefully. I consider the unrest of Hong Kong shows the symptom of the instability of current China.
  • ZY
    ZHENG Y.
    1 October 2019 @ 00:42
    Cool down people, let’s watch all the video this week and make the call at the end...
  • ZY
    ZHENG Y.
    1 October 2019 @ 00:24
    Unbias mind is a hard thing to do, yes, but since this is in your RV motto, at least you should try harder. I hope this is just a starter of this topic.
  • AG
    AlA G.
    30 September 2019 @ 23:42
    Another biased video... First, it is the Western stereotype impression that the people in the mainland China does not know what happened in 1989. 8 out 10 mainland Chinese know and know a great deal. If you don't believe it, go to China, pick up a non-toddler person and ask them. It is interesting to see the West are so fixated on the Tiananmen bloodshed when WikiLeaks already put out American diplomatic cable at the time indicating no bloodshed 8 years ago (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8555142/Wikileaks-no-bloodshed-inside-Tiananmen-Square-cables-claim.html). I am not denying the 1989 event and I think it is a historical disgrace, but the truth is far more complicated and heroes are perhaps less noble than you think they are. Second, police brutality? Give me a break. Think about it. 17th weeks of straight violent riots and not a single civilian casualty. If this is not police restraint, I don't know what it is, especially given the context that the US police can often get acquitted even after shooting unarmed civilian to death. These are not protests. These are riots and riots should be righteously dealt with proper force. I think every rule-of-law society agrees with this. I wonder why this video only shows, exclusively, footage of police tackling the riots. I urge you to go to the South China Morning Post's youtube channel to see the relatively objective coverage. (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4SUWizzKc1tptprBkWjX2Q). Third, the bill is just an excuse, but the root cause of the current HK is the horrible, perhaps criminal, wealth polarity. The wage does not rise for almost a decade while the housing price is aiming the moon. The government has done nothing to address the social welfare and wealth gap problem. The tycoon rips the benefit, and the government rips the...you know... this. Bear in mind, this is one of the most free capitalist market. Finally, I am not defending the China or Chinese authority, but I just do NOT think this video is that objective. If you always view the China as sort of pagan of the Western belief system and not study it from its own history, of course you will never understand. Folks like Gordon Chang has been touting the doomsday for god knows how many years, how does that work out? I understand the my two cents may be outrageous to some, but I think this is what RV is about, to bring different views together.
    • TR
      Travis R.
      1 October 2019 @ 01:14
      Muslim Concentration camps. How much more evil does the CCP have to get before the apologists give it up? I am a big Jim Rogers fan and looking forward to the interview Friday; hopefully RV asked the tough questions.
    • LP
      Lawrence P.
      1 October 2019 @ 01:25
      1. Firstly, regarding your description of the wikileaks documents claiming that there were zero fatalities at Tiananmen, based on common sense and video evidence, it should already be quite apparent the impossibility of zero fatalities. I will direct you toward the following SCMP article (yes, the south china morning post, which you refer to as showing objective coverage) which details formerly confidential documents of the UK Consulate that estimate fatalities at 10,000 Chinese citizens. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2156285/sir-alan-donald-british-ambassador-beijing-during 2. Secondly, with regards to your ridiculous comment on the HK police force showing "restraint", I will defer to an internationally recognized professional organization to make that assessment, unless your credentials supersede Amnesty International's: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/09/hong-kong-arbitrary-arrests-brutal-beatings-and-torture-in-police-detention-revealed/ 3. Thirdly, regarding your urging of viewers to visit SCMP's youtube channel for "relatively objective coverage" I am sure that you are aware that the SCMP was acquired by the Alibaba Group in 2015 and more recently, Jack Ma has relinquished (voluntarily or involuntarily?) his ownership of the company he founded. 4. Lastly, regarding your profoundly ignorant comment that "8 out of 10" mainland Chinese people know about Tiananmen, I will once again direct you to one of countless articles attesting to the fact that indeed, most young Chinese mainland citizens are unaware of the Tiananmen Square Massacre: https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-05-02/discussing-tiananmen-square-still-risky-after-25-years-even-chinese-students-us
    • MS
      M S.
      1 October 2019 @ 02:57
      Denial Denial and Denial at the end said “but” still ended with Denial. I don’t known why people makes same mistake again and again. I am an Uyghur, grew up in EastTurkistan better known as Xinjiang. I know how brutal and authoritarian regime China is, been there, seen that completely understand and support HK people. Since Uyghur Region is not free and open like HK region, PLA imprisoned, murdered tens and hundreds thousands of protester every time when there is a movement. No one cared or didn’t know nothing about it. Now, what we are witnessing is Holocaust 2.0 where more than 4 million people are locked in Concentration Camps or Labor Camps where they are forced to do slave labor, brain washed, organ harvested simply because of the ethnic and religious differences. This fight is not only HK people’s fight. CCP started with Uyghur and now grown into HK later Taiwan then Tibet. Every nation under Chinese Empire trying to be independent and live free as they were prior to 1949. The truth, freedom, democracy always prevail!
    • AG
      AlA G.
      1 October 2019 @ 04:22
      The word EastTurkistan said enough...
    • TR
      Travis R.
      1 October 2019 @ 04:23
      First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—      Because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—      Because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—      Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. Martin Niemöller This is absolutely everybodys fight.
    • SC
      Stanley C.
      1 October 2019 @ 05:54
      There are many ethic Chinese in RV here and many more bilingual who are doing business and live in China for years. We all know how corrupted the CCP is. I was in Hong Kong 2 weeks ago, the Pro-Beijing Party DAB told me their internal poll results showing 81% Hong Kongers support the movement. Your patriotism might blindside your views.
    • CH
      Charles H.
      1 October 2019 @ 20:13
      Absolute rubbish. Many young adults in China don’t know that Tianamen ever happened and those that do are only aware of the CCP’s propaganda that the military only acted in self-defence. If you honestly think there has not been a civilian casualty in Hong Kong, you are living under a rock. And then you complain about Real Vision being “biased”?!
  • NR
    Nelson R.
    30 September 2019 @ 23:07
    Authorianism needs disruption. We have not figured out yet how to free humanity from the grip of evil regimes like Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Iran, Rusia, North Korea and China. On the other hand these regimes have found a model that works flawlessly to oppress, maintain control for decades and can be exported. How about Silicon Valley puts brains and capital to work on problems like these instead of pumping out pieces of shit like WeWork? There is no way I am buying the notion that the people who put together these evil regimes are smarter than the brightest minds in the free world. THIS is the stuff that we should be solving.
    • LC
      Liliana C.
      1 October 2019 @ 06:08
      Yes I agree that these regimes are evil and under the mask of socialism they still have the same old system of an elite oppressing the masses. Having said that, we must ask the crucial question: how did these people/party come to power? In most cases, they were elected by the people! Yes in Venezuela for example that’s exactly what happened. People wanted the government to take care of them. They wanted the government to take from the rich and give to the poor. This never works! Study the founding fathers of the once great nation of ours! Why are we, Americans, also going down this path? Let’s fix crony capitalism, let’s fix the Fed etc. Socialism, big government is not the answer. 🙏
    • SW
      Scott W.
      1 October 2019 @ 11:42
      @Liliana C. VERY well said. A critical point. Sanders/AOC/etc are quite likely not the ones who will torture/murder/imprison. If successful they will however unwittingly pave the way for those who will.
  • JH
    Jesse H.
    30 September 2019 @ 22:32
    Bravo, RV team - this was fantastic and you had my full attention throughout. The only point of constructive criticism I have here is that next time it might be worth getting a couple of points of view, at least, from the HK and/or Chinese gov't. side. Other than that, great work - videos like this (and many others) make me a proud subscriber ("RV partner"). Thanks.
  • ly
    lena y.
    30 September 2019 @ 22:10
    I like to hear what do the Hong Kong citizens feel about this event. Maybe Trinh Nguyen is a good candidate? Raoul? One puzzle I have is why the Hong Kong property market doesn't crash. Why no exodus of the thousands and thousands of HK citizens who have foreign passports ?
  • PL
    Paulise L.
    30 September 2019 @ 21:46
    I cannot believe such a narrow tunnel vision, so full of westernized bias presented here. Big disappointment and I lost respect to the team of Real Vision. May be the editor team should first watch Nathan Rich first so they can learn how to be neutral and a little more fair. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHEdBpM-jgA
    • SW
      Scott W.
      1 October 2019 @ 11:35
      "Western bias" is often raised in matters regarding China. Please if you would, characterize the western bias from your perspective.
    • TM
      The-First-James M.
      1 October 2019 @ 21:53
      I watched that video. Came across as a CCP apologist/propagandist. Many of the comments merely reinforced my view of this. Was also interesting to see this bloke has produced another video describing the HK protests as being anti-democratic...
  • DC
    Dave C.
    30 September 2019 @ 20:55
    Excellent. A suggestion. A similar series on Europe, given the changes taking place within the ECB and the new EC. I can't wait to see a similar deep dive by RV on the long running yellow vest protests in Europe and the way they are dealt with by the authorities.
    • DC
      Dave C.
      1 October 2019 @ 05:36
      This may help with a decision https://twitter.com/ohboywhatashot/status/1175813027700125699
  • SP
    Sat P.
    30 September 2019 @ 19:59
    This was great. It offered clarity on what caused the crisis in the first place and where the situation is right now. The mainstream just glorified pictures of protesters being violent and until I watched this excellent video, there wasn't a good overview anywhere online. Great work RV team
  • MS
    Michael S.
    30 September 2019 @ 18:20
    In Business School, Austrian School Economic discipline therein, Hong Kong was held up as the closest thing to a pure and functional capitalist system. So when Hong Kong eventually dies, that is a huge black mark on Western Democracy. It's now the slippery slope moving to a 90 meter ski jump of disaster. Lesson that will be learned, I hope, is that the past generation that were dumb enough to agree to the deal with China, don't do deals with despots.
  • FG
    Frazer G.
    30 September 2019 @ 18:18
    We take so much for granted in the west.
  • SS
    Steve S.
    30 September 2019 @ 17:49
    This makes me sad. I believe a crackdown is inevitable once the Oct 1st celebrations are done. And the World will be outraged for a while, and then it will just be business as usual. After Hong Kong, Taiwan is next.
    • Sv
      Sid v.
      30 September 2019 @ 18:22
      the World will not be outraged. Most are apathetic, or sold out to the Chinese already. the story will be over in a week. Sad
  • TR
    Travis R.
    30 September 2019 @ 16:40
    There are a few small ways to help the people of Hong Kong. Basically anything that will weaken the CCP. Vote with your money. Stop buying Made In China, don't buy Chinese ADRs or ETFs containing Chinese securities, write Amazon demanding removal of all fake products, write your Senators and Representatives in Congress expressing your concern. To name a few.
  • RP
    Raoul P. | Founder
    30 September 2019 @ 15:47
    Wow! Real Vision makes me so proud ...
  • NG
    Nicholas G.
    30 September 2019 @ 14:58
    You are missing a MAJOR extrapolation - Taiwan
    • MC
      Michael C.
      1 October 2019 @ 08:35
      About time Taiwan was re-recognized? A liberal democracy in Asia worth saving. I guess the US would have to lead the way with some sort of joint recognition.
  • BS
    Bernard S.
    30 September 2019 @ 14:05
    This video needs to be out there for the world to see. Things are shaping up for an implosion. I'll like to see more videos on China.
  • JK
    Jay K.
    30 September 2019 @ 12:36
    The rise of these authoritarian regimes is alarming... and our indifference to them even more so. Human rights has gone out of vogue.
  • RL
    Ryan L.
    30 September 2019 @ 10:36
    The movement in Hong Kong is a joke. So is this video...
    • GW
      Geoff W.
      30 September 2019 @ 12:09
      you are a joke
    • SW
      Scott W.
      30 September 2019 @ 12:18
      Why might I ask do you say this?
    • DR
      David R.
      30 September 2019 @ 16:59
      Guess we know who pays your bills
    • RL
      Ryan L.
      30 September 2019 @ 23:44
      The bill is withdrawed. The main reason for the movement no longer exists. If the system works before the bill, what's the difference now? What keeps the situation escalating? It's a joke, the market will tell. Please listen to Trump, under impeachment, move your money away from HK. When PLA come, you won't have a chance.
    • MZ
      Martin Z.
      1 October 2019 @ 09:55
      The catalyst for the movement was (belatedly) withdrawn but the "reason" for it remains. Just as with the "yellow vest" protesters in France. The Chinese government obviously floated the extradition bill to test the reaction it would get, but they apparently made a huge miscalculation of the level of dissatisfaction in HK. Ordinary people do not turn out by the hundreds of thousands to risk their lives protesting if they don't have very serious grievances.
    • RL
      Ryan L.
      1 October 2019 @ 11:14
      I am always interested to learn more about yellow vest. But seems it is not properly documented, not much protestor interview, no good background music. Westerner just simply loves any movement in China, Tiananmen to Hong Kong. Curiosity? Fear? Maybe both, and both can bring viewers and money.
  • CL
    Charles L.
    30 September 2019 @ 08:31
    The narrator and parts of the background music sounded very much like The Zeitgeist documentaries. Could this be? They're on Youtube if anyone who hasn't done so yet wants to check them out.
    • RP
      Raoul P. | Founder
      30 September 2019 @ 20:54
      The narrative is a RV employee whose family is from HK... he took ownership for it to ensure fairness and accuracy, as best as is possible
  • KW
    K W.
    30 September 2019 @ 06:31
    This is the second time in recent history a major fight for democracy occurs under the CCP rule. And this is why I very much doubt the Chinese can achieve their desire to have RMB as a global currency reserve. Unless they become a regional or a world hegemony. I am still surprised some of the US financial giants still wanting to invest in China today.
    • DS
      David S.
      30 September 2019 @ 23:05
      It will not matter as Tibet did not matter to the world. DLS
    • DC
      Dave C.
      1 October 2019 @ 00:45
      For those who want to remember Tibet try here - may put some context to current events http://whitecranefilms.com/project/the-shadow-circus-the-cia-in-tibet/
  • JC
    Joel C.
    30 September 2019 @ 06:09
    Tomorrow is National Day in China and everyone is anticipating more unrest. Let's hope that China see that a Tiananmen reboot will not be good for anyone > especially the Hong Kong people. There is an air of quiet anticipation for what tomorrow will bring. Being on the ground here brings an eerie sense of foreboding. Above all I hope everyone can stay safe. 反送中
    • CS
      C S.
      30 September 2019 @ 13:47
      I see what you see Joel. Cheers.