Anthony Pompliano’s Story: Lessons on Bitcoin, Life, and Investing

Published on
January 15th, 2021
Duration
107 minutes


Anthony Pompliano’s Story: Lessons on Bitcoin, Life, and Investing

The Interview - Crypto ·
Featuring Anthony Pompliano and Raoul Pal

Published on: January 15th, 2021 • Duration: 107 minutes

Anthony Pompliano, investor at Pomp Investments, joins Real Vision CEO Raoul Pal to discuss Pompliano’s early career, his investing journey, and his introduction to the Bitcoin space. Pompliano describes his background, starting with college and his time in the military up until today, and he shares some of the most important lessons he learned for life and for investing. He talks about how he launched his first fund with very little knowledge about investing and the importance of investing in yourself. Believing that in the future builders seeking capital will prefer to take investments from individuals rather than institutions, Pompliano mentions the importance of an individual’s brand awareness and how that can help push new products. Filmed on January 11, 2021. Key Learnings: Pompliano suggests always listening to smart people when they are excited about new products or ideas, and he reflects on how he should have listened more attentively when he was first told about Bitcoin. In early-stage investing, he highlights how crucial it is to invest in smart and passionate founders as they have a lot of skin in the game and dedicate their lives to a product. In terms of investing in Bitcoin, Pomp’s fund invests primarily in its infrastructure with only a small portion allocated directly to the asset itself.

Comments

Transcript

  • KM
    Kai M.
    24 February 2021 @ 23:39
    Absolutely fantastic video and storytelling. Thanks a lot for this great take and the valuable lessons learned.
  • JP
    Jeff P.
    4 February 2021 @ 12:15
    Damn, I watched the fist hour+, had to stop, and now the player won’t let me watch the remainder... It appears we have to restart from the beginning.
    • JM
      Joachim M.
      4 February 2021 @ 20:47
      It's on Youtube now as well. -->https://youtu.be/xiowlInfj28
  • NL
    Niall L.
    16 January 2021 @ 02:00
    Anyone, interested in the idea that this is libertarianism and socialism crossed over? ((socialism isn't a bad word(before you start)) As a very left leaning person, this is very exciting for me... an aim for best of both worlds without reliance on a central government being too slow and/or corrupt. After years of being very cynical about technology, i feel de-centralisation is the way out. Obvs, most people's primary concern is security/profiting for their theirselves, family, friends and community but maybe this is bigger than that?
    • TH
      T H.
      16 January 2021 @ 02:28
      Indeed, there is a lot to explore in this idea. Chomsky spoke at length across his career of the libertarian movement in Europe having roots in and complex interaction with anarcho-socialism and the overlap of all of these ideas, and the difference of American libertarianism currently understood. It's so much more nuanced historically than anyone cares to talk about (or read about) these days. Now it's more viewed as ideological polar opposition, with people shouting at one another online like barbarians who have just learned to speak and see a different tribe across the way.
    • TH
      T H.
      16 January 2021 @ 03:27
      Bitcoin is entirely consistent with the anarcho-socialist tradition. A rejection of top-down state power. And an organic, decentralized, bottom-up community-driven governance. There is no network and no value without the organic "community".
    • GS
      Greg S.
      18 January 2021 @ 08:38
      @T H an interesting comment regarding BTC being consistent with the anarcho-socialist tradition. Normally it's anarcho-capitalists and Austrian School libertarians claiming BTC is consistent with their cause. Interestingly most high profile socialists do not share your view about BTC being rooted in socialist philosophy. Yanis Varoufakis made a specific rebuke about BTC not being the friend of a socialist. I agree with you that what's needed is "A rejection of top-down state power. And an organic, decentralized, bottom-up community-driven governance." But don't necessarily believe BTC will be the vehicle for that. What doesn't really get talked about much is the obvious wealth imbalance and inequality that will exist in a BTC economy. Many of the large whales aren't socialists and typically fall into the Ayn Rand style philosophy to justify their own wealth and economic power at the expense of others.
    • NL
      Niall L.
      26 January 2021 @ 02:35
      @Greg S, I wasn't purely talking about bitcoin. I am interested in the decentralisation of the web. I am excited about my own profits from crypto sure.. but what I am really digging is creating a system where hopefully no one can monopolise nada.
    • NL
      Niall L.
      26 January 2021 @ 02:52
      @Greg S. "What doesn't really get talked about much is the obvious wealth imbalance and inequality that will exist in a BTC economy. Many of the large whales aren't socialists and typically fall into the Ayn Rand style philosophy to justify their own wealth and economic power at the expense of others." I am also fully aware this is a thing... If you want to expand on this.. please do.
  • SK
    Stan K.
    20 January 2021 @ 14:44
    re: the Strike app they're talking about at ~1:19:00, can anybody help explain to me why does Bitcoin (or digital currency for that matter) have to be involved at all when making a USD->USD transfer? In other words, how is USD->BTC->USD faster than USD->USD? In the former case, you still need to sell the BTC for USD and send it to the recipient's bank account. How is that faster than just directly sending USD to the recipient's bank account?
    • TY
      Tim Y.
      21 January 2021 @ 12:59
      they use the lightning network for fast payments 24/7. Traditional banks are typically open Mon-Fri 9am to 5pm and it may take 3-5 days to clear payments, even longer for international payments.
    • SK
      Stan K.
      22 January 2021 @ 07:46
      Tim, I don't think you understood what I meant. If the goal is for USD to reach your bank account, you're still bottlenecked by the banks. In the end, this lightning network payment (let's just call it BTC?) has you sell the arriving BTC into USD and credit it into the recipient's bank account, correct? In that case, how is that BTC->USD payment any faster than the alternative USD->USD?
    • LF
      Lee F.
      25 January 2021 @ 05:00
      Hey Stan, I think you're only bottlenecked by the banks if you want to withdraw the USD from the app to your bank account. But in theory, after the USD lands in your Strike account, you could go to a Bitcoin ATM and withdraw the cash without it ever touching your bank account. Or you could make another payment to someone else using the balance in the app. In that sense, it has an edge over the traditional way you'd send USD>USD, because the USD doesn't ever have to reach your bank account. It can be used from within the app (to pay someone else, or withdraw as cash from a Bitcoin ATM). No waiting for the money to clear, no fees, instant and 24/7.
  • FP
    Frantisek P.
    24 January 2021 @ 16:48
    The biggest moron around...
  • SD
    Sagar D.
    23 January 2021 @ 06:49
    Enjoyed this conversation ! Pomp is much smarter than I imagined from his tweets :)
  • SK
    Stan K.
    20 January 2021 @ 14:36
    Interesting how he didn't understand or dodged the derivatives question. Great question by Raoul - surely it must be a matter of time until derivatives begin to dominate the space, right? Human nature does not change, regardless of the technology.
    • KB
      Kurt B.
      21 January 2021 @ 14:02
      While it was a very fair and probing question, why do you use the term “dodged”? That implies purposeful avoidance. Nothing about his answer suggested that to me.
    • SK
      Stan K.
      22 January 2021 @ 07:46
      I mentioned "didn't understand or dodged", meaning he either purposefully avoided answering the root of the question or didn't understand what Raoul meant.
  • TH
    T H.
    16 January 2021 @ 01:12
    Networks are not pure technology, they are also the collective, shared, and overlapping beliefs of the human beings who use them (without which they have no monetary value), as fostered by both the network incentive structures as designed, and by the context of the world in which they exist. In the collective minds of human beings, Bitcoin has become a hard asset, albeit an intangible one. The real power and value of Bitcoin resides in the minds of the collective. Narrative cuts to the core of value. Raoul is dead right. Bitcoin reductionists (there is no need to use the "m" word due to its negative connotations), are eventually going to be disappointed philosophically (although they'll at least be rich) after the legacy financial system fully adopts and accepts Bitcoin as high-quality collateral and proceeds to re-hypothecate and leverage it in thousands of ways in thousands of products with risk spread across the globe. This is literally 'what they do' and 'why they exist'. This is "adapting their business model." It won't feel like such an idealistic Austrian Economics / libertarian hard currency anymore. And reductionists will have missed all the other incredible innovation across DeFi and the crypto universe. It will have been a philosophical error.
    • SK
      Stan K.
      20 January 2021 @ 14:37
      This comment has weight.
  • EM
    Eric M.
    18 January 2021 @ 12:36
    Great interview. Amazing actually. The media player is trash. I can’t skip ahead without it failing. I am stuck watching it all at once at the same time on the same device. I can’t come back the next day and finish the interview on a different device.
    • RA
      Robert A.
      18 January 2021 @ 13:54
      I have the same issues. If I stop watching and vid resets I have problems skipping ahead.
    • KM
      Kiran M.
      18 January 2021 @ 18:27
      Same issue here
    • EG
      Euan G.
      18 January 2021 @ 21:27
      yes same here
    • SK
      Stan K.
      20 January 2021 @ 14:34
      Exactly. I tweeted Raoul yesternight to just port this to Youtube or something. The player is pretty broken, especially on mobile.
  • RD
    RaShane D.
    20 January 2021 @ 04:57
    I enjoyed the interview. POMP is the reason I finally bought bitcoin last year. I was looking at other cryptos but decided to purchase a little every week and call it a day. I don't have 35k in bitcoin but I can say I have fractions of it. lol
  • GC
    Guillermo C.
    19 January 2021 @ 22:03
    We are gonna make it.
  • SA
    S A.
    19 January 2021 @ 15:40
    Always appreciate RV's topics. Especially like Raoul's interviews but this one was hard to stomach. My cursor magically kept drifting towards the pause button (minute 27). It's good to see strong conviction around an investment thesis but Pomp presents himself as a zealot. It's as if crypto and blockchain are the second coming of Christ. I am running for the hills when I hear that type of fanatical ideology. The Kool-aid might look tasty but wondering if the folks at Jonestown had the same thought.
  • cw
    colin w.
    19 January 2021 @ 09:52
    Great to get Pomps views how he sees the future.
  • NP
    Nick P.
    19 January 2021 @ 08:46
    Fantastic interview, the strategic long term view and pathway to crypto adoption is way ahead of current thinking. Loved the 'hotdog' analogy and the realisation that for anyone living in Europe, the test run of a new currency adoption has been done already with the shift to Euros and maybe NOT as daunting as first imagined :)
  • GJ
    Gilles J.
    19 January 2021 @ 05:55
    You advertised that this conversation was incredibly interesting, and it does not disappoint. I'll be telling people that it was a "feast for thought".
  • AF
    Adriano F.
    18 January 2021 @ 01:33
    @Craig Here is how ETH compares to BTC as sound money and how much of ETH's current price I think is attributed to its value as sound money vs the protocol's capabilities. It is a little long, but even if you strongly disagree with the points made here it will help you understand the bull case for Ethereum. There is a general understanding among ETH investors that the enhancements from ETH 2.0, EIP-1559 and L2 solutions will result in a sustainable monetary policy with near 0% issuance and the potential to for Ether to become a deflationary asset. What is even more interesting is that the net return of ETH as a SoV becomes superior to BTC the moment that issuance is lower than the staking yield. In other words, even if BTC had already ceased issuance, it offers no mechanism to provide yield to long term holders with a negligible risk exposure as ETH does. There is an execution risk that Ethereum will not deliver on what is currently planed, but if it does then what I have explained will become a reality. You cannot separate BTC/ETH payment railroad from their respective monetary policies. As you are aware, issuance is just a subsidy, and without it the network will need to operate as a profitable business with a cash-flow that is entirely dependent on network fees. This is why I originally mentioned that the utility of the Bitcoin network is being degraded. What I meant by that is that the incentive for users to transact directly on the network is being diminished because of the tokenization into ETH and by the introduction of custodians (like Paypal) and traditional banking services who will soon be entering this space. If this trends continue, I suspect that the only activity that will end-up happening on-chain will be done by wales sporadically transacting to hodle and the occasional settlement from institutions. Bitcoin seems fast and frictionless, but that is because you are comparing it to something in the physical world. In digital terms Bitcoin emulates the friction of operation that is found with gold: it is difficult and expensive to move it, securing it yourself is not trivial, and it does not make for a great medium of exchange. I don't think this will be a good dynamic to generate enough transaction fees. That is of course my subjective interpretation of it, but regarding this particular situation it is nearly impossible to make objective assertions at this point. It is possible to assert that, in the digital world, the expectation of frictionless money would entail near instant transactions with negligible cost and without the relative risk/paranoia of dealing with nuclear waste and having a hacker watching your every move waiting for you to make a mistake to snatch it away. Ethereum is steaming ahead on all ends. Ethereum is fostering a digital economy (this is a very important part of understanding the value of Ethereum, but I will not be exploring it in this post) with DeFi at its center. It is currently generating about three times as much trx fee revenue as Bitcoin. L2 solutions are going live as we speak, and it appears that they will be much more practical and provide better UX when compared to the Lightning Network. This will help to amplify L1 block space value and push revenue even higher. That will be followed by EIP-1559, which will burn transaction fees. Mining is currently excessively profitable and hash rate cannot keep up. This means the financial incentive can be reduced and by burning the fees we achieve the equivalent of an issuance reduction, while stabilizing mining revenue. Eventually the transition to PoS will dramatically cut the operational cost of the network. That means that Ethereum as a business will become more profitable and less reliant on the issuance subsidy. Finally, we will see the introduction of shading which will scale L1 by up to 1,000 times, compounding the effect of L2 solutions and making it feasible for the network to operate as a platform for new use cases. A solution to the hacker/nuclear waste security situation is being explored via social recovery wallets. This is still in the early stages of research and design, but it is important to realize that the Ethereum community recognizes it as a problem and working on a solution. There is a lot more that can be said about the BTC vs ETH debate and I am working on a full write up that explores each individual element in more detail. Regardless, it is important to pay attention to this trend: the smartest people in this space are shifting their point of view and realizing Ethereum's potential. Raoul Pal is a seasoned investor, extremely bright and open minded. He started with Bitcoin, but it did not take him long to understand the value proposition of Ethereum. Lyn Alden is a brilliant investor and mental powerhouse who initially did not think investing in Ethereum could be justified, but she is also starting to shift her view and now understands that it has a justifiable risk/reward ratio to be included in a portfolio. She has just published a report with her analysis about Ethereum: https://www.lynalden.com/ethereum-analysis/ The crypto space has a have a few analogies that have been used to describe a technical/economic mechanisms that are a somewhat tricky to understand: mining, Ethereum's gas, and the analogy to ether being oil. If you put to much weight on these simplified analogies, you will not understand the economic actuality behind them. This is a source confusion in the crypto space, and it is used to support false narratives. From an economic perspective, ether is money. Once you understand this, you will know that the narrative that BTC and ETH are not competing because they are different things is analogous to saying fax machines do not compete with the internet.
    • tc
      thomas c.
      19 January 2021 @ 00:35
      Lyn Alden did an excellent deep dive on the econ and investment value of ETH and why she is holding back for now. Covers a wide range of ETH information. https://www.lynalden.com/ethereum-analysis/
  • RM
    Ron M.
    18 January 2021 @ 04:44
    Great interview. I don't understand how Bitcoin proponents can totally write off gold. It's just too early. Shut off the on and off ramps to Bitcoin and things stop. Lose your keys and lose your Bitcoin. Gold as a store of value is still the safest bet. Own both. Don't get me wrong, blockchain will disrupt: Lending Transfers Retail and commercial banks Investment banks Securities brokerages Insurance companies Trustees/Escrow agents Collectibles All assets will be tokenized on the blockchain Wagering Legal contracts Voting Etc.
    • tc
      thomas c.
      19 January 2021 @ 00:28
      Etcs - Entertainment industry big time. and my favorite Google and all data silos
  • AP
    AJ P.
    18 January 2021 @ 05:42
    Pomp is impressive. Excellent story teller too.
  • AF
    Adriano F.
    18 January 2021 @ 02:57
    @Andrew, @William Here is an expanded version of the bull case for Ethereum and how it relates to Bitcoin. There is plenty of room for intelligent debate in the crypto space and it is worth taking a minute to read and understand the point of view of Ethereum investors. https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/kzkdw4/a_break_down_of_the_bull_case_for_ethereum_and/
  • pl
    peter l.
    18 January 2021 @ 02:06
    Great interview, One thing that worries me about behavioral economics is the unintended consequences. This could turn into some Orwellian nightmare.
  • DW
    Dean W.
    18 January 2021 @ 00:05
    Fun conversation, learned a bit about how VC investing works. I believe Pomp is wrong about one thing - BTC will never be the world reserve currency for many reasons, including the same reasons that gold will never be the world reserve currency. That's not how global economics works. Different countries need different monetary policies at different times, can't do that with hard money. Global geopolitical reasons would also prevent it. Countries are never going to give up the right to play beggar thy neighbor currency wars. But I do expect BTC to continue to be increasingly accepted as a new form of digital store of value, on a global macro scale. There will also be many other blockchains transmitting different types of value for different applications.
  • TM
    T M.
    17 January 2021 @ 22:20
    Awesome interview skills Raoul
  • DP
    Darren P.
    17 January 2021 @ 10:38
    I know the Bitcoin narrative states that because there are only ever going to be 21m coins but what if someone comes up with an alt that only has 20,999,999 coins? Surely it will be even more scarce. Or, dare I say it 20,999,998 coins. Even more scarce!
    • MF
      Max F.
      17 January 2021 @ 16:28
      It doesnt work like that
    • MG
      Manish G.
      17 January 2021 @ 17:21
      Its like saying if you copy the code of Google or Facebook and host it with one or two better features you will suddenly become bigger and more valuable than them... ;-)
    • MJ
      Mark J.
      17 January 2021 @ 20:35
      It would be helpful if RV would do an interview entirely devoted to this question: Is Bitcoin actually scarce or just the first and best brand name in the space? I own some BTC and would buy a lot more if I could get more conviction on this issue. I’ve read various articles on the BTC network effect and to me they are all too surface level to be compelling. I would love to hear from an expert that can do a deep dive on this topic and explain the tremendous network effect that will be necessary to defend against other alternatives over time. If BTC was being rapidly adopted as a currency or even a payment network like Paypal, Venmo, Visa, Mastercard, Alipay, etc, then it would easier to see the network effect. Instead, the issues around transaction capacity are widely known and narrative is now that it is a store of value and the network effect is less clear. FaceBook and LinkedIn are good examples of a network effect - very obvious to see from the consumer’s perspective. BTC clearly has the best consumer brand name and a big head start on acceptance as a payment method over other crypto currencies, but BTC’s network still pales in comparison to the other payment networks, so that is not a compelling moat. So if BTC is simply a store of value, why can’t the hard cap forks like LTC, BCH, BSV, and new coins that will inevitably be created potentially gain share as they can be made with equal or better security, transaction capacity and hard cap scarcity? Understanding this is the key to believing that BTC can eventually achieve a market cap similar to Gold, or whether that will be divided among many digitally scarce alternative assets.
  • TR
    Tobias R.
    15 January 2021 @ 23:01
    Sadly have to say Pomp seems like an archetypical tech alpha male to me. Worked in tech for almost all of my career and you encounter these people who speak with full conviction but the feeling is that when you scratch the surface their understanding is poor. Love when Raoul explains how remittance companies make money on the bid-ask spread. Don't get me wrong own bitcoin but in terms of what crypto is going to be the base of the application layer I would look at where the talented engineers are going (clearly Ethereum > Bitcoin) rather than take Pomp's point-of-view very seriously at all.
    • CH
      Crag H.
      16 January 2021 @ 10:43
      By "talented engineers" I guess you mean engineers who don't understand low level programming languages like C or C++? Because the only reason developers are flocking to Ethereum is because their smart contract programming language Solidity makes it easy to create stuff. Don't get me wrong, that's an awesome thing for Ethereum. But that's all coming to the Bitcoin ecosystem as well in due time.
    • SK
      Stan K.
      17 January 2021 @ 20:26
      Agreed, I think Pomp can be full of himself at times and while he has a decent experience/track-record, it does seem riddled with luck. Nevertheless, he's taken off already. His podcast allows him to learn from the very best people in the world on all topics and his large network ensures he'll rarely sway in the wrong direction without somebody smarter than him showing him his mistake. In other words - he's started putting in the time to become smart and it's inevitable he'd see returns off of it.
  • VT
    Vincent T.
    17 January 2021 @ 07:33
    On Pomp's multi-currency world and the user experience that he described, I think he forgot/skipped the part about currency funding and treasury operations, which is a cost to the liquidity provider which will need to be squared of (ie: paid for) by someone
    • MG
      Manish G.
      17 January 2021 @ 17:24
      Already taken care of by decentralized exchanges. Happening for minuscule fees / liquidity provider fees compared to the real / central financial world. Do look up at something like UniSwap or SushiSwap if interested.
  • SM
    Suzanne M.
    17 January 2021 @ 15:18
    Love these macro convos. Fascinating how Pompliano plunged into so many unknown areas during his life, learning by doing. Terrific back and forth.
  • OG
    Oliver G.
    15 January 2021 @ 21:33
    Pomp lost me at minute 41. It's obvious that he bets heavily on layer 2 solutions for Bitcoin and missed the Ethereum innovations. Look where his money is and you'll understand.
    • CH
      Crag H.
      15 January 2021 @ 22:18
      Name one innovation built on top of Ethereum that's actually solving a real-world issue.
    • jl
      johan l.
      16 January 2021 @ 21:03
      This is more a response to Crag H, but if you look at what Ethereum Layer 2 protocol nahmii is doing for C02 footprint reporting in the fish farming industry, there's just one real-world issue.
    • CH
      Crag H.
      17 January 2021 @ 09:01
      @Johan: So you're betting on an app (the sea food industry thing) that's being built on a platform (nahmii) on top of a platform that's still not finished (ETH 2.0)? Consider me skeptical. Just the fact that everyone and their mother is building a "platform" tells you that no one really knows what the problem is they're trying to solve. Everyone just assumes that someone else will build the killer app.
  • AF
    Adriano F.
    16 January 2021 @ 05:24
    Ether is not like oil or gas. Ether is, among other things, money. I promise I will eat my own dick if I can't change your mind with this explanation: Let’s say I have a car with a 14-gallon fuel tank and I want to take it on a road trip. The car is not aware of the price of gasoline, and it would not travel any farther if the price of gas would double the next day. That’s because the intrinsic utility of oil has nothing to do with its monetary value. The car needs gas because of its particular physical properties and how the ICE is designed to utilize it. If I want to drive from point A to point B and it takes a full tank to get there, it will take that full tank no matter what happens to the monetary properties of gas/oil. This is fundamentally different from how Ethereum uses ether. Ethereum (the network) is not trying to be money, but it utilizes ether exclusively for its monetary properties and not because it can be magically burned by an imaginary engine of sorts. It costs money to participate in the network as a miner, and their engagement is financially incentivized with ether. Block space is a scarce resource, therefore participants who wish to transact use ether to bid for it. These interactions are utilizing ether as a monetary medium of exchange. When the price of ether goes up, the ether denomination of gas prices go down. That happens because no one is using ether as gas/oil, and it is actually being used as money.
    • CH
      Crag H.
      16 January 2021 @ 10:27
      "Gas is essential to the Ethereum network. It is the fuel that allows it to operate, in the same way that a car needs gasoline to run." https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/gas/ Enjoy your lunch.
    • AF
      Adriano F.
      16 January 2021 @ 13:26
      What I am trying to say is that the gas analogy does not make sense from an economic perspective. This is very similar to how the term “mining” is a misnomer. Mining is just a cute word for processing and clearing transactions. The only goal of real world mining is to obtain more natural resources... mining as an activity does not exist because we need landscaping or as an artificial way to create jobs, it exists for the sole purpose to extract gold from the earth. On the other hand, the purpose of crypto mining is to process transactions in a decentralized fashion. The “extracted” tokens are really just newly minted coins that the protocol creates in order to reward miners for their work. From an economic perspective mining crypto is fundamentally different than real world mining... but Satoshi used this analogy regardless of this understanding. Going back to the gas analogy... it is just used to explain an economic process that is otherwise more difficult to understand to people who may not have the background or the patience to fully grasp what it is. The issue is that it feeds into a narrative that ether is not really money and because of this Ethereum is not competing in any way with Bitcoin. Once you understand what Ether is from an economic perspective it becomes hard to deny that the ETH and BTC tokens are more similar than maxis would like us to believe.
    • AF
      Adriano F.
      16 January 2021 @ 15:40
      It is also worth noting that even Ethereum "gas" is not really analogous to fuel. It is a computational metric and it is more equivalent to the distance a car must travel rather than what propels it. The fuel in Ethereum is electricity and you pay the miners with ether just like you pay for real gas with dollars.
    • WT
      William T.
      16 January 2021 @ 21:16
      how does it taste?
    • AF
      Adriano F.
      16 January 2021 @ 23:55
      William, I meant it figuratively, but you wouldn't know the difference.
    • CH
      Crag H.
      17 January 2021 @ 08:54
      @Adriano: How much of todays market cap ($135B) do you think comes from its smart contract functionality (which requires ETH to be *spent*) compared to its supposedly sound money features? My bet is that the market cap would be about the same as Bitcoin Cash ($8B) or Bitcoin SV ($3B) if the smart contract functionality would be stripped out. That's the level of competition ETH brings in terms of sound money.
  • JD
    John D.
    17 January 2021 @ 03:45
    Great Conversation...One of your best Raoul...
  • ts
    twil s.
    16 January 2021 @ 17:43
    I'm a law student and plan to focus on this personalized account monetary policy issue for my upper class research writing project (hope to get it published). I don't think it will fly legally, especially if they apply any negative rates; there will be a tax issue, whereby central banks will be overstepping Congress' jurisdiction.
    • JJ
      Joe J.
      17 January 2021 @ 02:04
      my son is in law school as well and taking classes in smart contracts, blockchain.....this will be a change in le legal field.... interesting time to be new in law .
  • JJ
    Joe J.
    17 January 2021 @ 02:02
    Great interview- I think there are several smart contract platforms , like Theta//tfuel that are far better than ETH, Nothing but resect for VB being first to market..... but 3-6-9 dollars for gas is crazy....too slow and too pricey
  • PR
    Prashanth R.
    17 January 2021 @ 01:52
    I would be very interested to know if Pomps views on Eth and the fact that defi will eventually move to bitcoin has changed the view Raoul thinks about eth?
  • ST
    Scott T.
    17 January 2021 @ 00:30
    Great stuff!
  • GW
    Garfield W.
    16 January 2021 @ 23:32
    This is sooo fascinating! Many thanks going out to the RealVision Team. This is so nourishing for the mind. Cutting edge information at its core.
  • BD
    Bryan D.
    16 January 2021 @ 22:29
    I can't see Central Banks creating personalised monetary policy. CBDC's in theory will likely allow technology potential to do this but I don't see elected officials allowing anyone else to pick winners and losers in society from policy than themselves. Elected officials, where CB mandates come from see this as their role. I also doubt CB's (i.e. nearly all career economists) want this role. It seems we are generating technology which will no longer be the constraining factor of policy implementation but governance and mandates will be.
  • TP
    Timothy P.
    15 January 2021 @ 18:33
    I love how Pomp stumbled on to what is Raoul's Crypto Investment thesis - "I didn't want to know how it could go bad (XRP, ETH), I just wanted to know how it could go well." Explains a lot about RV crypto commenters, too - they're more of the "great interview, awesome" category instead of seeing fundamental flaws and playing devil's advocate to drill down on an idea. Pomp is a good example of "Survivorship Bias", in the sense that he stumbled into good things over and over. Hey, people have won the lottery twice, so there is that. Just interesting to see a live example of such.
    • SH
      Stephen H.
      15 January 2021 @ 18:44
      That's a pretty dismissive argument. Plenty of people have had opportunities fall their way but lack the conviction or courage to take advantage. Takes some skill to be "lucky" so often if you ask me.
    • TP
      Timothy P.
      15 January 2021 @ 23:03
      @Stephen H - He admits to knowing nothing about what he engages with - so I give him credit for learning quickly. Why else did you think I said "Survivorship Bias"? RV likes to queue up the ones that make the finish line, not the ones that have lessons to impart from lengthy struggles.
    • WT
      William T.
      16 January 2021 @ 21:53
      People don't just "stumble" into things over and over, ...the harder I work the luckier I get!
  • JC
    John C.
    16 January 2021 @ 21:47
    Jersey Shore meets Global Macro Investor
  • jl
    johan l.
    16 January 2021 @ 21:23
    interesting interview. I haven't heard of him before, which probably isn't something I should write based on the comments below. A quote that popped into my head repeatedly throughout the interview was "It Ain’t What You Don’t Know That Gets You Into Trouble. It’s What You Know for Sure That Just Ain’t So". He is beyond convinced that absolutely all roads leads to BTC, and that all other projects will and must default to going back to using BTC as collateral or as the base layer at some point. I can't even pretend to have an opinion on that, but it strikes me as a rather big assumption to make. or, at least something you don't want to get wrong. hedging the risk of getting that wrong by investing only in BTC projects and layer 2 BTC seems a bit odd. another terrific job by Raoul. Loved the part when they discussed the consumer application of sending money. There seemed to be some levels of complexity of that product that Pomp hadn't fully considered. The logic of "we have done some work which you have yet to do and therefore we are better" is probably true for now, but if the incumbent disrupts itself, the current customer base is not very likely to change.
  • MS
    Martin S.
    15 January 2021 @ 19:03
    Anthony, gold does not have to prove its scarcity to the last ounce, because it has redeemability, which is a feature that bitcoin lacks. Hence, the value that you think should be attached to perfect scarcity in gold is not there. It is not necessary. Valuation is always on a relative basis. Bitcoin, on the contrary, is by definition an unredeemable asset that, to be used as a medium of exchange, requires that scarcity be proved to the last bit, to avoid counterfeiting. Gold also has other features that decentralized crypto lacks: fungibility and low volatility. I know fungibility is currently being addressed via layer 2 developments, in crypto but that only goes to show precisely an inferiority, in that particular aspect. I think that the error here is to think of gold or bitcoin as assets or objects in themselves. Humans do not need assets to exchange indirectly. They need money, which is an institution, that is, a protocol to address the non-computable (in the Turing sense) problem that indirect exchange poses.
    • HB
      Hariod B.
      15 January 2021 @ 20:10
      On the provability of scarcity (of gold), then he also ignores the matter of inference. Thousands of years of digging dirt, plus modern miners/geologists all(?) saying extraction has peaked and will diminish hereafter, allows one quite reasonably to infer that gold is indeed extremely scarce. Okay, so it cannot be proven irrefutably in some equation. Neither can we irrefutably 'prove' consiousness exists. But it rather looks as if it does.
    • jl
      johan l.
      16 January 2021 @ 21:09
      A thing I've been thinking a bit about is what will happen if asteroid-mining takes off (sorry for the pun) and an asteroid that is mined turns out to be pure gold? likewise, what if the first quantum computer that comes around is set to break blockchain and succeeds? I don't know the likelihood of these two scenarios are, but I'm a bit sceptical when people say "all roads leads to x".
  • DZ
    Damian Z.
    16 January 2021 @ 20:33
    Outstanding interview! I really admire both of you for the work you do for our blockchain ecosystem.
  • JK
    Jerrett K.
    16 January 2021 @ 01:44
    Bitcoin maximalism contradicts what Bitcoin stands for, freedom. I never understood what makes people think that there can only be one because in a free market, this is impossible. You don't need defi on Bitcoin. Bitcoin is fine the way it is.
    • CH
      Crag H.
      16 January 2021 @ 10:37
      You misunderstand. People are just trying to convince you that the other networks hold no value. That's different from saying they don't want competition. Experimentation is essential, but marketing these science projects as something investable that will change the world is misleading.
    • GA
      Gerald A.
      16 January 2021 @ 20:21
      Honest money IS liberty. Liberty IS honest money. The rule of law is not possible without honest money.
  • Cc
    Conrad c.
    15 January 2021 @ 16:02
    At what time in the video does pomp give out his price prediction on btc?
    • GA
      Gerald A.
      16 January 2021 @ 20:12
      He does at the end. "One bitcoin is one bitcoin." One counts ounces of gold and silvers, and the number of bitcoins. Those are the units of account.
  • SF
    Scott F.
    16 January 2021 @ 17:51
    Interesting interview -- thanks Raoul & Pomp! Once DeFi / DEX technology has been fully developed / implemented, I'm not sure there will be a need for a "reserve currency." Agree, investors will always seek out "store of value" investment assets, but I don't buy into the BTC reserve currency narrative. In time, there will be tokenized versions of traditional commodities, as well as multiple options for digital "store of value" assets ... IMO, he's a bit over-sold on the BTC narrative.
  • cd
    chaitany d.
    16 January 2021 @ 02:53
    All i hear is "Ahh" after every word and honestly nothing of substances .. am i the only one ? .. honestly seems like Pomp just got lucky right place right time .. no technical experience , no novel ideas, little subject matter experience .. Am i the only one that thinks he got lucky .. i mean best of luck to him .. but he bashed XRP after SEC announcement .. and the fact he just bashed without looking intot he coin or the allegations with the added leverage of his follower counts .. does he not seem like a bad person to give this much power via influence tooo.. RP was so much better in the interview iwth AP then the other way around .. I just realized ive only seen AP's stuff where he is interviewing and has time to prep ... now i see him being asked the question and see how slow his brain works with the amount of "Ahh"..
    • JT
      James T.
      16 January 2021 @ 03:45
      Nope, completely wrong. You don't like something small about him like how he speaks, and then this negative preconceived notion makes you ignorant to what he's actually saying. Went from the Army to FB & Snapchat - that doesn't happen unless you're a realist who makes things happen. If you think he doesn't know anything about XRP and hasn't looked into it, you're clueless... it's Pomp we're talking about, you're clearly not a follower of his content. I'd put money on you being an XRP fan. I'm a big fan of Pomp and all of his work, but purely from the first 19min you can tell he's a no BS, rational thinker who has the ability to upskill and learn fast and under pressure. High risk appetite and willing to back himself. Appreciate it or get out of his way, Raoul wouldn't have him on RV as an individual interview or have him on previously to run the 'crypto virginity' video with Novo, RP & Mark Yusko if 1. he didn't know what he was talking about and 2. if he was just an average crypto commentator without real insight.
    • SL
      Shawn L.
      16 January 2021 @ 07:13
      I can honestly see both chaitany d. and james t. point here. Yes Pomp obviously benefited A LOT from being around the right people at the right time. But he has ABSOLUTELY done the forward "first principles" thinking and research that allowed him to CAPTURE these opportunities. He has obviously always been a hard worker. This is probably a hang over from his sporting life, but I digress. My only question is, is he right about BTC's potential? I think he is, but only time will tell. Here is a thought for you POMP if your listening, "Will my lifetime be long enough to capture ALL of bitcoins possible returns?" It was a great interview and I am grateful to have had the opportunity to listen to his experiences and thoughts.
    • cd
      chaitany d.
      16 January 2021 @ 10:30
      Im just salty : / ..My bad AP
    • SS
      Stephen S.
      16 January 2021 @ 16:26
      Agree Pomp is a better interviewer than guest.
  • RR
    Radostin R.
    16 January 2021 @ 16:25
    The whole point of Bitcoin is exactly that you don't have to trust anyone because the network is trustless. This the Byzantine problem. This is the majesty of the software of Bitcoin. It solves the Byzantine fault and the receiver doesn't have to trust the sender or vice versa because that is handled by the software. You don't need to trust that someone will send you 1 Bitcoin when you expect that because the software removes the possibility of any fraud.
  • MR
    Marco R.
    16 January 2021 @ 09:37
    BTC Maxis are just to confident in their opinion, that there will never be a better invention like BTC. BTC is great now, but it doesn't mean that all the other developments have no chance. e.g. Etherium2.0 will burn Ether at the final stage of the development cycle. If the developers can pull this off, stock2flow model of ETH will dwarf BTCs. In this case, there is no need to rebuild DeFi on BTC chain. ETH will be the collateral of DeFi. It is a long way to go and I am not saying that ETH is better than BTC. I am just saying that BTC Maxis have a narrowed view and that is in general never positive.
    • CH
      Crag H.
      16 January 2021 @ 10:33
      No they don't. They just want to do things in the right order while others are willing to compromise on security, decentralization and other things to get stuff done quickly.
    • SS
      Stephen S.
      16 January 2021 @ 16:24
      Once had a Blue Checkmark Twitter Bit-coiner say to me “Bitcoin is the final evolution of money”, some of these guys are so dogmatic about this I really can’t stand them.
  • ks
    keith s.
    16 January 2021 @ 16:10
    OUTSTANDING...thank you very much...great program
  • RP
    Richard P.
    16 January 2021 @ 15:31
    Best 1.5 hour interview ....Thanks ...
  • SD
    Sudipta D.
    16 January 2021 @ 14:12
    Great session. Enjoyed and learned a lot. Thanks Raoul and RV.
  • aK
    ac K.
    16 January 2021 @ 13:39
    Solid comment and 'thesis' regarding the adoption of BTC over the past decade (no financial incentive trying to shortcut adoption) and allowed for natural adoption vs. using short-cuts to get quick adoption (see chapter 6). Today, people want everything now (not willing to wait patiently for natural adoption) and this attracts people only for quick financial incentives which work for the short term but not the long term. Both BTC and ETH will work great together.
  • JB
    James B.
    16 January 2021 @ 13:10
    Hi all, Zap sounds interesting - Coinbase is yet to support. I'd like to learn more before deciding on a small investment or not. Any advice on where to begin?
  • AT
    Arnaud T.
    16 January 2021 @ 11:56
    Now you know what you should do, Raoul. Go your own way and call it « Pal’s rich pals » (call me if you want the rights to this one, though ;-)
  • KB
    Kevin B.
    16 January 2021 @ 11:13
    Best Crypto Video I've seen here so far.
  • AF
    Adriano F.
    15 January 2021 @ 21:46
    Pomp, even if you believe that gold's scarcity is a myth you have to agree that it is more scarce than FIAT currency, and that the vast majority of the world views it as a scarce monetized commodity. With that in mind, and taking into account your narrative that monetary value is primarily derived from scarcity, why are corporations sitting on piles of cash and how do you explain this: Gold market cap: ~$11 trillion Global money supply: ~$100 trillion
    • CH
      Crag H.
      16 January 2021 @ 10:48
      Agree, trying to discredit gold due to it's supposedly lack of scarcity is the weakest of all criticisms against gold. Not sure why some Bitcoiners feel the need to criticize gold. It's weird.
  • dw
    douglas w.
    15 January 2021 @ 22:39
    When I watch an interview like this I think- Don't confuse brains with a bull market. My view is if BTC rises which it will most likely in this cycle, all defi assets will increase. Rising tide.. But I'm way more interested in ADA Cardano, Ethereum, Link, Polkadot, as well as some much smaller defi protocols- dig around and look at how large the engineering community is and how many commits these projects are deploying on github as a measure of future adoption and growth within the engineering community. Always glad this content is here for us and thank RV and Raoul for creating this community. interesting rankings in terms of commits : https://www.cryptomiso.com/ Be well ladies and gents.
    • CH
      Crag H.
      16 January 2021 @ 10:46
      More bugs to fix more features left to implement ==> more commits There's more stuff to fix when the project is young.
  • AF
    Adriano F.
    15 January 2021 @ 14:27
    I have never seen a critique of Ethereum's issuance model address the fact that the developers are actually stake holders and a large amount of Ether is held by the dev fund. It is in their self interest to reduce issuance. They are not the recipients of newly minted tokens, and they are not benefiting from maintaining it a current levels. These critiques rarely ever recognize that issuance is nothing else other than a form of subsidy to the secure operation of the network. The ability for a cryptocurrency to survive without this issuance is entirely reliant on the revenue it can generate from transaction fees, and Ethereum is currently generating twice as much revenue than Bitcoin. In addition, there is an overwhelming consensus that ETH 2.0 + EIP-1559 will result in sub 1% (potentially deflationary) issuance with a 3% yield to long term holders. The result is a higher net store of wealth (when compared to a non-inflationary asset that does not provide yield) with negligible risk. The most important thing to remember is that bitcoin as a hard-asset cannot be separated from the technology and it's utility and capacity as a payment rail. We are witnessing a degradation of the utility as bitcoins are externalized via wrapped tokens and by the wave of new custodian services that are coming to this space (Paypal is just the beginning). Bitcoin skeptics keep hitting on this point, but I have not heard any meaningful answer to how this trend will be reversed. Remember, issuance is a form of subsidizing decentralization. If an argument can be made that the financial incentives to operators (miners/stakers) are excessive or insufficient then an argument can be for the implementation and execution of a dynamic monetary policy. How is an arbitrarily picked issuance schedule determined during the genesis of a new highly complex system is supposed to be efficient and effective through its lifecycle? Bitcoin's certainty of stability sacrifices the possibility of efficiency and it jeopardizes longevity.
    • CH
      Crag H.
      15 January 2021 @ 21:49
      "These critiques rarely ever recognize that issuance is nothing else other than a form of subsidy to the secure operation of the network. The ability for a cryptocurrency to survive without this issuance is entirely reliant on the revenue it can generate from transaction fees, and Ethereum is currently generating twice as much revenue than Bitcoin. In addition, there is an overwhelming consensus that ETH 2.0 + EIP-1559 will result in sub 1% (potentially deflationary) issuance with a 3% yield to long term holders. The result is a higher net store of wealth (when compared to a non-inflationary asset that does not provide yield) with negligible risk." > Ethereans need to make up their mind. Is the ETH meant to be spent or to be saved? AFAIK it's a smart contracts platform where the tokens are meant to be used as gas to run the contracts. Now, how many will be willing to do that if the token goes from inflationary to deflationary? You can't have it both ways. "The most important thing to remember is that bitcoin as a hard-asset cannot be separated from the technology and it's utility and capacity as a payment rail. We are witnessing a degradation of the utility as bitcoins are externalized via wrapped tokens and by the wave of new custodian services that are coming to this space (Paypal is just the beginning). Bitcoin skeptics keep hitting on this point, but I have not heard any meaningful answer to how this trend will be reversed." > Cannot be separated from the technology? Degradation of utility? What are you even talking about? You might get an answer if you could phrase the question in a meaningful way. Are you saying it's a bad thing that major financial players want to provide services related to BTC? "Remember, issuance is a form of subsidizing decentralization. If an argument can be made that the financial incentives to operators (miners/stakers) are excessive or insufficient then an argument can be for the implementation and execution of a dynamic monetary policy. How is an arbitrarily picked issuance schedule determined during the genesis of a new highly complex system is supposed to be efficient and effective through its lifecycle?" > We obviously don't know that since we've not seen the end of it yet. But what we DO know is that it's been amazingly successful at bootstrapping the system. By having this super simple and 100% verifiable issuance schedule it's been possible to onboard millions of people simply because it's easy to understand. Perhaps it turns out to have its flaws in 100 years, but if that's the case.. well then we've already won. Ethereum on the other hand? No assurances whatsoever. "Bitcoin's certainty of stability sacrifices the possibility of efficiency and it jeopardizes longevity." > Bitcoin developers optimizes for stability because they actually want the stuff being built on top to be able to rely on the base layer. The Bitcoin project is the only sustainable project out there. Ethereum on the other hand is a failed project that's trying to market their re-launch as "2.0".
    • AF
      Adriano F.
      16 January 2021 @ 04:28
      Crag, you need to take a chill pill my man. There is plenty of room for intelligent debate in this space, and at the end we can agree to disagree. > Ethereans need to make up their mind. Is the ETH meant to be spent or to be saved? AFAIK it's a smart contracts platform where the tokens are meant to be used as gas to run the contracts. Now, how many will be willing to do that if the token goes from inflationary to deflationary? You can't have it both ways. Ether has properties of many different asset classes. This is what makes it so difficult to understand, and it is also part of the reason it is incredibly valuable. You could draw parallels between ether and monetized commodities, currencies, bonds and tech stocks. Ether is a mixture of all of these at the same time. One thing that it is definitely not is gas. I just tweeted a full explanation of why this is a flawed analogy: https://twitter.com/AdrianoFeria/status/1350295857762021376 Here is how it is also analogous to a tech stock: https://twitter.com/AdrianoFeria/status/1349031253773856769
    • CH
      Crag H.
      16 January 2021 @ 10:29
      I'll take my chill pill when people stop propagating lies about Bitcoin and start being intellectually honest. It's amazing to me how Ethereans suddenly are trying to co-opt the Bitcoin narrative of being "money, but also much more". It's like they're realizing no one is willing to spend an asset that keeps going up in price which in turn kills its main use case which is being used as payment to run smart contracts. Great job of hand waving your way out of the criticisms. Sadly a common thing in these circles.
  • CH
    Crag H.
    16 January 2021 @ 10:17
    Pomp is 100% spot on when he talks about the adoption curve of these networks. Ethereum and it's defi ecosystem is a solution looking for a problem. Important experimentation for sure, but it's not solving any real world issues today. Perhaps it's closer to doing this in 5-10 years, but by then the SDKs, APIs etc on Bitcoin will be orders of magnitudes better which will let people build these things on a sound protocol.
  • ML
    Michael L.
    16 January 2021 @ 04:50
    Raul, that interview wasn't just great - it was GREAT! Two of my favorite commentators keeping me spell bound for two hours is just the way I like to enjoy an evening. Thank you and thanks Anthony. mdl
  • JS
    James S.
    16 January 2021 @ 03:55
    thank! really enjoy listening and learning
  • PB
    PDX B.
    16 January 2021 @ 03:36
    This was the one that I wanted to see...Brilliant interveiw Raoul! Thx RVC!!
  • TJ
    Tarpley J.
    15 January 2021 @ 22:56
    Love Pomp, but the maximalism is tough to watch. He talks about being open minded, yet seems to think there is only one future in this space...
    • cd
      chaitany d.
      16 January 2021 @ 02:41
      Ahh.. Ahhh.. Ahhh.. I used to like pomp but then he bashed XRP after the SEC lawsuit without much evidence or justification apart from leaning into the FUD that was being perpetuated in on social media ... Now i listen and all i hear is "Ahhh" .. "Ahhh"... which alot of people i do but those that are aware attempt to remediate that.. pomp doesn't seem like he has really started to look within and start to review his ego and ideas for better or worse ..
  • JD
    Jonathan D.
    16 January 2021 @ 00:53
    Long Bitcoin , Short The Bankers!
  • dw
    dan w.
    16 January 2021 @ 00:27
    almost cringey maximalism, everything going on to ETH...Raoul the man
  • KF
    Kevin F.
    15 January 2021 @ 16:00
    Although I highly respect Anthony’s achievements, his level of bias would scare me if I was to trust him with my money. We can see multiple times during the video on Raoul’s face that Anthony seems to lack what the greatest investors all have in common: a truly unbiased opinion together with an « I know that I don’t know » mindset. It will be interesting to see if Anthony manages to find some other great investments outside of BTC but I am afraid that if he doesn’t change his mindset he might miss out on other (even better) opportunities.
    • AF
      Adriano F.
      15 January 2021 @ 16:13
      The irony is that he considers himself open minded. We are so early in the crypto revolution and there are so many things that are still not well understood and incredibly complex that it is nearly impossible to have a level of conviction to justify being fully invested in just a single cryptocurrency. It does not make sense from an investment perspective. Raoul played it smart by hedging into Ethereum at a rate proportional to market cap. It is a neutral stance in terms of risk-reward ratio. By doing so, he reduced his potential BTC gains by 20%, but he added a tremendous safety net in case it does not turn out the way we are hoping it will. On the other hand, he will make an obscene amount of money if Ethereum does live up to the full potential of the story behind it. The fact that he has continued to push more capital into ETH means that he is now viewing favorably on the risk-reward basis when compared to BTC.
    • sg
      scott g.
      15 January 2021 @ 20:40
      "irresponsibly" naïve?
    • DM
      Dan M.
      15 January 2021 @ 21:39
      Not completely, because his curiosity and anger to learn probably compensates his biaises. Nice interview, he is well connected to the reality of the space. Make him come to RV one year from now.
    • Vf
      Vincent f.
      15 January 2021 @ 23:43
      Test.
  • sf
    susan f.
    15 January 2021 @ 23:18
    Real vision - thank you so much for providing an alternative for thinking people to the hundreds of you tubers schilling the latest defi coin. Its refreshing, educational, interesting and exciting - especially for business or technology people who came to crypto with less understanding of macro economics.
    • sf
      susan f.
      15 January 2021 @ 23:22
      PS I forgot to say I agree with a lot of Pomp's vision. I think the jury is out on what underpins the defi ecosystem in the long term but what he reminds us is that there is absolutely one possible scenario in which it is bitcoin. To echo another commenter, I also like that Raoul you always push back with sound logic as others have commented - as one would expect a senior manager in a company to do to employees making a pitch to them for something. This push back is a bit too think in the crypto world and its good to see it on real vision.
  • ID
    Ian D.
    15 January 2021 @ 22:47
    That was really really interesting. Thanks.
  • RP
    Rodrigo P.
    15 January 2021 @ 21:09
    I already gave up on Pomp, he's delusional. Trying in every way to put Bitcoin at the center of the narrative. He says that some individuals control Ethereum's monetary policy and that they may decide to increase ETH issuance, yes that is true. But nothing prevents someone from forking Bitcoin and adopting a monetary policy with more inflation. It all comes down to adoption, if some individuals decide to modify monetary policy on Ethereum or any other blockchains people can leave, they can fork the blockchain and adopt the fork that interests them. I'm already tired of hearing this bullsh*t that only Bitcoin is sound money, as if the definition of money was something black and white, when in fact it is full of nuances.
    • CH
      Crag H.
      15 January 2021 @ 22:16
      That's because Bitcoin is the center of this universe. If Bitcoin falls everything falls whether you like it or not. Full of nuances? Are you trying to say that ETH is also sound money even though it's impossible to know how many tokens there are in circulation or how many tokens that ever will be created? What assurances are users getting of not being inflated away over time?
    • LS
      Lewis S.
      15 January 2021 @ 22:20
      Can you answer the same questions about Gold, Crag?
    • CH
      Crag H.
      15 January 2021 @ 22:27
      Not sure I follow. You want to know what assurances gold holders are getting of not being inflated away? Or do you mean that gold holders want to know this in terms of Bitcoin?
  • MR
    Michael R.
    15 January 2021 @ 22:24
    Thank you, for both your time. Seeing you both enjoy yourself during the interview is special.
  • RK
    Roger K.
    15 January 2021 @ 08:58
    Crypto is Tether. https://crypto-anonymous-2021.medium.com/the-bit-short-inside-cryptos-doomsday-machine-f8dcf78a64d3
    • BN
      B N.
      15 January 2021 @ 14:59
      Roger K. do you believe everything Yahoo News tells you? If so, I have a bridge in San Francisco I would like to sell you
    • JP
      Jamie P.
      15 January 2021 @ 18:39
      I've been hearing about how Tether is going to destroy the value of BTC for years. The arguments seem convincing and I've never seen a strong refutation beyond 'This is FUD!'. Would love to hear what these two think of the dangers Tether poses to the short term value of BTC and its reputation over the long term. The article makes some very good points, and I've been around long enough not to trust Tether or anyone else in the crypto space that makes big claims but refuses to prove them. Is this really a systemic risk, and if not, why not?
    • BN
      B N.
      15 January 2021 @ 19:22
      Jamie P. - I think it is a fair question. Just so you are aware, Raoul has discussed/tweeted about the Tether topic in the past, and his view was it is just “noise”. If you want to dig a bit deeper, I would direct you to Dan Held - I think he has done the best job at debunkIng this claim as FUD (along with many others). As you highlight, and I agree, it is important to understand why it’s just noise. One thing off that bat that you should keep in mind is that Tether represents about 2-3% of BTC market cap (hate using market cap where discussing crypto, but useful here), so the chance that something that insignificant has a significant impact on the overall price of BTC, even if all the claims were true (spoiler: they are not) its not going to move the market meaningfully. Also, 1 BTC is 1 BTC - Tether doesn’t change that. I understand that most people get into BTC from fiat, so it’s currently matters, but I think tying BTC to any fiat currency goes away with time. Keep that in mind when looking out 5-10 years.
    • JP
      Jamie P.
      15 January 2021 @ 21:05
      Thanks B.N. I’ll do more digging. I’ve seen wildly different opinions on the degree to which tether is propping up the price of btc, and I don’t understand the intricacies of either view well enough to take sides. I believe in the long term success of bitcoin, but for now buying it with fiat is my only option to get more. I don’t want to drop $36k on a coin today if a Tether-induced crash will bring it down to $3k tomorrow. Conversely, I wonder if fear of Tether is holding back more investment into btc, and the price would be much higher if it ever went away.
  • BW
    Ben W.
    15 January 2021 @ 20:47
    Question.... (Im just learning) and was wondering) Bitcoin is only going to have so many coins 21Mil. The miners are paid to process transactions and are paid in new coin. When the halving stops How do the miners get paid? If they dont, who processes the transactions? I dont mean to be dumb but just wondering. .
    • CH
      Crag H.
      15 January 2021 @ 20:53
      Currently, the miners are paid in both block rewards (newly minted BTC) and transaction fees when they verify the new blocks. Once the last new BTC have been minted they will have to rely on just the transaction fees. This is expected to occur in the year 2140.
    • AD
      Andrew D.
      15 January 2021 @ 20:53
      Fees
  • JP
    Jaroslav P.
    15 January 2021 @ 14:31
    I like the narrative of money... but i cannot agree with "Fact-based works". It IS all a belief system, a trust system. These systems are narrative based. This is presicely why joe next door would be more happy to get paid in Dollars than in Pesos and in GBP versis Ethereum/Bitcoin or XRP. For now. Belief system is changing. This changes narrative. With exactly that - Time, we can accept and regard the likes of bitcoin as "sound store of wealth".
    • VF
      Vassilios F.
      15 January 2021 @ 20:45
      This is EXACTLY what I was going to post, as Pomp's comment exploded my BS detector. Humans are narrative making machines and always will be. For Pomp to say we're switching away from that...is his own narrative. Thank you for Raoul pushing back on this point. Kinda disappointed in Pomp having this blind spot. He has 1000x times the sales/biz experience that I do but finding a digestible narrative is what I spend most of my time on at work, regardless of the task I'm doing.
  • TK
    Timothy K.
    15 January 2021 @ 20:35
    The military is the biggest fraternity in the USA. Do your time and join the club for life.
  • jW
    john W.
    15 January 2021 @ 09:02
    How could Bitcoin become the world's reserve currency with such limited supply?
    • NC
      NATHAN C.
      15 January 2021 @ 09:15
      A bitcoin divides into millionths called satoshis.
    • RK
      Roger K.
      15 January 2021 @ 09:47
      and 2% accounts own 95% bitcoin.
    • NC
      NATHAN C.
      15 January 2021 @ 12:03
      Sorry, I meant 100 million.
    • BN
      B N.
      15 January 2021 @ 14:55
      Roger K. I think you need to look into where this data comes from - it’s been a disproven FUD claim for a while now. Even if 2% of addresses own 95% BTC (which isn’t even true), that would include the exchanges, who hold on behalf of hundreds of thousands of people. They don’t own it, but custody it. It would be like saying “Chase, Wells Fargo, HSBC” own 95% of the USD. Just because millions of people bank there and store there money there In their own account, doesn’t mean the banks own the USD.
    • EB
      Eric B.
      15 January 2021 @ 18:40
      I view it as BTC is the world reserve currency, but we won't be walking around spending it at Walmart. If gold is the reserve currency today (don't laugh), we are not using gold coins when pay for gas. There will always be a local fiat rail that will have to be used because gooberments.
    • AJ
      Aaron J.
      15 January 2021 @ 20:34
      I think WAY TOO MANY PEOPLE, missunderstand what a "reserve currency" actually is! Today we have an "SDR" basket of currencies where the USD is the largest in that basket. All of these however are fiat and debt based. So we call the USD the world reserve currency but in fact it's PART of it. For example all nation's central banks MUST hold "some" items from the SDR basket (so this includes pounds, yen, euro and so forth) it's simply morphed to where most of it is USD, and it's now lopsided. The underlying asset is the true issue in my opinion. Today there is none (Just debt based fiat). Previously gold or a ratio per $, £, ¥, €, etc... Without an underlying asset to link all of them again it's bound for failure. So when we're talking about a reserve currency it doesn't mean everything will be purchased with "gold or bitcoin or whatever anyone believes should be the underlying asset" or that local fiat based currencies will disappear. It simply means any "RESET" they will be looking for underlying assets that will work well in a digital age. (Our tech revolution era). My personal opinion: We will probably see a NEW SDR basket for a digital age. I'm honestly not sure gold has very large role although I believe in it as sound money. It's simply been proven over thousands of years that other nations will raid innocent onces for it, or that "trust" by good nation actor's is required but they can easily turn bad. (Look no further than the UK or US refusing to return other nations gold!) I mean France put a warship at the NYC harbour over gold! This should never happen in a digital era. So my guess is we'll end up with an SDR basket to relate to the digital age. Perhaps bitcoin, a bit of eth, and certainly CBDC's and maybe one or 2 more similar styled digital assets that are transparent and have very little 'trust' to be able to verify. And all nation's will simply hold a percentage of these and continue to use their own debt based currencies OR slowly migrate to CBDC's with the other assets as the universal underlying layer that binds all parties. That's just my opinion.
  • BW
    Ben W.
    15 January 2021 @ 20:05
    1
  • HB
    Hariod B.
    15 January 2021 @ 19:55
    Pomp @ c.1 hr 37 min: <em>'So we're recording this in January 2021; I think by, uh, the end of January 2022, so basically two years, give or take.' Hmm . . .</em>
  • NK
    Nacer K.
    15 January 2021 @ 19:40
    Pomp's thinking is shallow and with various biases here and there. I think his success is as he pointed to indirectly is that is seems good at building and maintaining a network and that is powerful. The bitcoin community historically has been against allowing tokens on its blockchain for respectable reasons but I can't imagine a bitcoin based DeFi product where one takes a bitcoin loan rather than a stablecoin loan to go on with one's business unless we get to this "bitcoin currency reserve system" dream which is a possibility but burdened with fights. I'm not saying it won't happen, I'm just saying that borrowing bitcoin rather than a stablecoin is a fool's game as I don't know if I'm going to return 20k or 400k next time when I have to honor my loan :)
  • RS
    Ryan S.
    15 January 2021 @ 18:18
    Pomp's got some heavy btc bags.
    • TP
      Timothy P.
      15 January 2021 @ 18:41
      Year-to-Date BTC performance: 318.74% Yeah, you aren't very good at this, are you. Too funny.
  • SH
    Stephen H.
    15 January 2021 @ 18:36
    Great interview. Can see why he's done well in the VC side of things i.e. back talent and get out of the way. Raoul has a great interviewing style, relaxed, conversational, and definitely not slow to push back here he disagrees. Great job
  • ID
    Isayah D.
    15 January 2021 @ 09:43
    I work as a loan officer. Big fan of Pomp, but I have to disagree with what he said about getting a mortgage without interacting with someone. I'd be curious to know how these loans are closed without being notarized, or how title issues are resolved without clarification from a human. Most of the "digital" mortgages just have a flashy website for the initial application but behind the scenes it's still just people pushing paper and making phone calls. Also, I wonder if he's undermining the rest of the cryptocurrency space by thinking that BTC will be the end-all-be-all. Perhaps BTC provides collateral and a SOV, but it hasn't been engineered for defi and its simply not good for many other use cases (yet). You just can't underestimate the human capital that is involved in ETH. It dwarfs the number of developers for BTC and a large number of other projects combined. Also it's now possible for BTC to interact with the ETH blockchain through wrapped BTC, so I don't find it likely that we'll bring defi to BTC. More likely, we'll bring BTC to defi. The world is big enough for more than one blockchain. I was happy to learn more about Pomp during this interview, though I found myself disagreeing with his views more often than I thought I would. Thanks for having him on.
    • SS
      Soo S.
      15 January 2021 @ 09:56
      Some of the things he said in the last 15-20 mins were a bit comical, too, about the dollar not crashing, etc.... Also, he should really try to understand the impact on Bitcoin demand/supply implications emanating from derivatives. Still, this was an interesting interview, and I agree the future is defi.
    • AF
      Adriano F.
      15 January 2021 @ 15:18
      The whole process can be tokenized, but there is more infrastructure and integration with the real world that needs to happen before that. In theory, the end result will be a global collateralized credit market with less friction and higher liquidity.
  • Sp
    Scott p.
    15 January 2021 @ 12:47
    Pomp gets it
  • JP
    Jaroslav P.
    15 January 2021 @ 10:57
    really enjoyed this. so many good funny points, genuine story. good stuff. not sure about only the two kinds of people. ;) But I do agree I look into the "Problem solving" personalities.
  • JH
    Joel H.
    15 January 2021 @ 10:22
    Outstanding. Learned alot! Thank you guys!
  • SH
    Sang H.
    15 January 2021 @ 09:52
    excellent video