Leaving Traditional Finance for Crypto

Published on
October 2nd, 2020
61 minutes

Leaving Traditional Finance for Crypto

The Interview - Crypto ·
Featuring Brian Estes

Published on: October 2nd, 2020 • Duration: 61 minutes

Brian Estes, founder of Off The Chain Capital, joins Ash Bennington, Real Vision senior editor, to discuss his transition from traditional finance to the crypto space. Estes shares his early career on Wall Street, his initial reaction to Bitcoin, and his rapid career shift. He touches on how he identified crypto as the next mega trend from his education in traditional finance. Estes explains where he first placed his capital to get exposure to crypto and how he made those decisions. He then describes the differences between valuation methods of assets like equities versus networks like Bitcoin. They end with a discussion about the revolution of monetary policy caused by cryptocurrencies. Filmed on September, 9 2020.



  • RL
    Rahim L.
    12 February 2021 @ 04:52
    @ash Can we get some more insight on Tezos as a smart contractor L1 plaform. It was touched on here and couple of other videos on the network. It seems like they are light on marketing and more down to business. Relative value vs Eth and Eos looks pretty compelling.
  • LK
    L K.
    8 October 2020 @ 19:48
    An interesting discussion; thank you. I love that Bitcoin is now old enough to have a "modern age"! It would be great to have more in depth discussions on blockchain governance and genesis which, to me, are some of the most important areas prospective need to research. If you want genuinely this channel to be educational, please bring on someone to talk dispassionately about the New York Agreement. The likes of DCG and Coinbase have not always acted in their customer's interests. Glossing over this important historical event does not help newcomers make informed decisions. It would also help expose the common lies that incorrectly attribute the unique security and censorship resistance properties of bitcoin to blockchain technology, more generally.
    • DC
      Douglas C.
      9 December 2020 @ 20:47
      Indeed, just lost money with Coinbase and their customer service is nearly non-existant, buyer beware. Such events do the community real harm and I think have to be addressed more seriously and closely for wide adoption by all types of people around the world which is what we want right?!
  • VB
    Vince B.
    5 December 2020 @ 02:30
    I'm new to Bitcoin and Block chain how do you invest into it. I own ranches and Wagyu cattle and would be interested in putting money into these investments.
    • KB
      KEVIN B.
      8 December 2020 @ 09:40
      GBTC - Grayscale Bitcoin Trust Microstrategy - MSTR OR buy Bitcoin direct from exchange Kraken for example
  • SG
    Sashi G.
    22 October 2020 @ 09:56
    And having watched a few of these, Ash is good at this.
  • SG
    Sashi G.
    22 October 2020 @ 09:15
    Absolutely fascinating story and interview. Despite his tough start early in life with the car accident, he made the best of his opportunities and what an UNCANNY knack Brian has for spotting opportunities. And he knows it - Wow.
  • TC
    Tim C.
    18 October 2020 @ 03:05
    Ok, just watching this. Totally agree with the S-curve adoption comment. Crossing the chasm discusses this concept and it is pretty much right on. Point being, there is a lot of runway before a technology takes off. You just need conviction it will cross the chasm
  • JL
    Julien L.
    17 October 2020 @ 08:26
    Well this was very convincing
  • SM
    Stephen M.
    7 October 2020 @ 03:41
    Plan B's 'Stock to Flow' for determining future price for BTC, gold, and other assets has been discredited by Strix Leviathan and others. Maybe a future RV Crypto interview session with those with the Statistics chops who have discredited could help the RV audience.
    • LK
      L K.
      8 October 2020 @ 20:13
      Stock to flow seems to be a meme more than anything else in the bitcoin space. But to call it discredited is seems a bit strong. Leviathan makes some legitimate points, but also only analyzes gold's S2F over the past 115 years, which is a likely unrepresentative of the millenia which it has had a monetary role. One valid criticism of S2F, in my view, is that it completely ignores demand. It would be trivially easy to create a digital asset with an infinite S2F. But that would be worthless without a network effect to create demand for it. Hence the need for many crypto projects to try and con retail investors into thinking their token has utility because the founders want to get rich with their premines.
    • KK
      Kiwoong K.
      11 October 2020 @ 02:47
      discredited, yes. Disproved, yet to be seen.
  • MN
    Mark N.
    9 October 2020 @ 03:03
    Around :47 minutes into the discussion Brian states that it looks to him that the fiat system is failing. It is hard to take a statement like that seriously. If I lived in Venezuela, then yes I would say the system is failing. But in the US, UK or Europe, does he expect runaway inflation in the next 5-10-20 years?
    • KK
      Kiwoong K.
      11 October 2020 @ 02:41
      economic machine is bigger than what most people can understand. One way to think of it is as follows. You are in a train that is going 500MPH (for the sake of an example) and the engine of that train has stalled. For a while, as a passenger, you may not notice that the train is slowing down or that engine has stalled. Inevitably, it will slow over time and come to a full and complete stop. Another way to think of this is an iphone battery. For the first couple years, you may not notice the battery being worn over time. On your third year, no matter how much you charge the phone, it will become evident that something has gone wrong and your phone just doesnt have what it takes for it to make it through the day.
  • AL
    Andrew L.
    9 October 2020 @ 02:39
    Thanks Ash for another v interesting interview. Would also be interesting to see a session with the founders of Diginex (EQOS US), which just listed on NASDAQ and seems to be the first listed crypto exchange.
  • VK
    Ville K.
    6 October 2020 @ 08:10
    Hi Brian and Ash, it was great to hear your thoughts in this interview. Based on my research, I think Brian is exactly right about the layers of this space. One of the key things what people don't understand about the Ethereum ecosystem is the difference between the value transaction layer and the smart contract layer. The value transaction layer (payments) will be production ready much earlier than the smart contract layer. That's why, it would be great to hear more detailed information about this transactional layer and maybe even ask some back-end dev to tell about it. Brian: "So I think the same things is going to happen with Bitcoin. I think Bitcoin is going to be the primary gold layer, and then we're going to have other systems built on top of Bitcoin. And so one of the systems that needs to be built is a transactional layer.....And so there will be a transactional layer, and then, there's also going to be, hopefully, a winner in the smart contract space. So that's going to be either Ethereum, or Tezos, or EOS, or one of the smart contract platforms that are out there. And that would be the third winner."
    • RK
      Robert K.
      8 October 2020 @ 18:32
      Ash, I would love to see an interview dedicated to Tezos specifically
  • KB
    Kurt B.
    7 October 2020 @ 00:24
    Very insightful interview. Can someone further explain the second variable in the Metcalfe’s law based BTC valuation model? He describes it as (paraphrasing) the transactional value based on flows going through the network. I would like that dumbed down a bit if possible. Also, how has the 94% correlation between the model and the fair value BTC been confirmed/proven out?
  • SG
    Sven G.
    6 October 2020 @ 10:51
    Great content. Thank you
  • NB
    Nikhil B.
    4 October 2020 @ 18:43
    I didnt get the part where he spoke about "Claims" where does he buys these claims for Bitcoin or Bitcoin cash from? Is there an exchange for that? why will anyone sell claims for less than what one can get in market?
    • CV
      Collin V.
      5 October 2020 @ 16:56
      From what I understand it sounded like he finds the individuals with the claims. He provides liquidity for these claims because some of these people might need the money right away, i.e wedding, house, medical, etc.
  • JS
    4 October 2020 @ 22:00
    Can someone more adept give us a few pointers on how to evaluate crypto assets and where to pull the underlying data from ? Thx in advance, J.S
    • CV
      Collin V.
      5 October 2020 @ 16:55
      Messari and Glass Node is a great place to start Jev.
  • CV
    Collin V.
    5 October 2020 @ 16:54
    GD that was good. Gave me a lot of great stuff to think about. Feel bad for Newton, though. Had no idea he bought a top that left him broke. I'm surprised I missed the Pomp interview too, but I'm glad I know now. Great interview, Ash. Long Bitcoin!
  • CS
    Chris S.
    5 October 2020 @ 15:43
    fantastic read. thank you to the two of you
  • MO
    Master O.
    4 October 2020 @ 11:17
    Brain do you have the bitcoin valuation models available publicly on your website?
    • JP
      Jim P.
      4 October 2020 @ 19:00
      email lp@offthechain.capital for them
    • RK
      Rusev K.
      5 October 2020 @ 14:14
      The charts are also available here - very interesting presentation: https://s3.amazonaws.com/flaia2020/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/07235943/OTC-20007-01-D4-Education-Deck.pdf
  • MH
    Muddshir H.
    5 October 2020 @ 05:00
    Great interview ash
  • VF
    Vassilios F.
    5 October 2020 @ 01:33
    Really enjoyed this one
  • JJ
    JARED J.
    3 October 2020 @ 03:35
    Bitcoin sure turned out to be a better investment than an MBA! :)
    • JP
      Jim P.
      4 October 2020 @ 05:07
      I agree!
  • RM
    Ron M.
    3 October 2020 @ 14:40
    Brian has a really interesting investment approach. Go through the backdoor. Love the scrappiness! Ash, can you get Olaf Carlson-Wee? He's really well spoken and is always ahead of the curve.
  • WT
    William T.
    3 October 2020 @ 12:43
    He is a very good high tech, polished Bitcoin ambulance chaser
  • DO
    DIOGO O.
    3 October 2020 @ 11:23
  • JW
    Jay W.
    3 October 2020 @ 08:34
    This was great!
  • NC
    Nicolas C.
    3 October 2020 @ 07:54
    Best Crypto interview by far, wow. Please get him back to dig a bit further in the projects he's more excited about like Tezos and his different valuation models for Bitcoin. Thank you!
  • SY
    Shiva Y.
    3 October 2020 @ 07:50
    One of the most relatable interviews in RV Crypto! Brian was wonderful! His knack for recognising value way before anyone else is just awesome. He's an OG in crypto space all right. Fascinating conversation. Hope he'll be back for more interviews.
  • AM
    Alexander M.
    3 October 2020 @ 03:47
    Bitcoin and for that matter crypto is beyond my ken. However the eloquent and simple way these two gentlemen held their conversation enabled me to grasp an understanding I previously did not have. Thank you both for sharing your knowledge and intellect. Captivating discussion, questions and answers.
  • HR
    Humberto R.
    3 October 2020 @ 02:05
  • AQ
    Andrew Q.
    3 October 2020 @ 00:35
    Easily one of the best RV interviews I’ve seen. Great job Ash.
  • SV
    Santiago V. | Contributor
    2 October 2020 @ 18:36
    Holy gods! Boss mode unlocked! His conviction and vision on S-Curve adoptions is exemplary. Kudos, makes me Bullish on the future.
    • AB
      Ash B. | Real Vision
      3 October 2020 @ 00:33
      Me, too
  • CC
    Charles C.
    2 October 2020 @ 23:10
    This was terrific. I learned more in an hour here than any other crypto interview so far. Has someone just starting to invest seriously in the crypto space this provided lots of ideas for more research
  • BP
    Bradley P.
    2 October 2020 @ 22:14
    Please ask Brian to come back! We would like to hear more about his S curve analysis, and we need to see his models. He is one of the best I have seen so far. One question I have for him--what is the compelling use case for bitcoin as a base layer, i.e. what does it bring to the table vice other hard assets? We really need more analysis in this area.
  • ES
    Edward S.
    2 October 2020 @ 20:23
    Ash: Brian is the real deal. Best crypto conversation on the site. Please, get him back for another hour. I learned so much. Thank you.
    • AB
      Ash B. | Real Vision
      2 October 2020 @ 20:59
      Thanks, Brian. Much appreciated. I enjoyed this one very much myself.
  • MD
    Michael D.
    2 October 2020 @ 19:23
    Very useful interview - recommended!
  • JF
    Jess F.
    2 October 2020 @ 18:11
    Finally an extremely useful explanation of the crypto space, easy to understand for a simple soul.
  • PU
    Peter U.
    2 October 2020 @ 17:37
    An incredible interview. Well done on both sides. Great content. Should not be missed!