"Anxiety about being short bitcoin." Absolutely!

Brilliant and insightful, however I feel like all the talk about asset inflation misses the point. Assets might be the biggest demand among the 0.1%, but it certainly isn't for 99.9% of the population. Of course you are getting asset inflation with a negative real interest rate and most of the wealth concentrated at the top (people that want yield, not yachts). I don't see how this has much to do with inflation though - the value of money stays the same. The more money that flows to the top, the higher the demand for assets will be, even though the purchasing power (vs goods and commodities) stays the same.

Great content. Let the world know! Thank you both, Raoul and Michael

What a beautiful conversation. Uplifting,confirming and joyous. Just about to retire comfortably thanks to Bitcoin. My wife and I backed ourselves with some seed capital in 2013. Working class critical thinkers. Thankyou both for your time and passion

Raoul, thanks for putting this video on youtube; Michael, thanks for taking 2 hours to record it, for sharing your perspective & story. Really, this was wonderful. I loved the self interrupts and side stories, the accidental CEO; the side stories were just as insightful as the main show. I loved how you simplified the inflation that we all care about is there but yet CPI is so low! Somehow we all feel we are being dudded, but can't quite explain why. "All I wanted to do was hold cash in my company for a rainy day, but all I see is it melting away, how am I going to explain to my customers that I'm going to be here in 5 or 10 years if the value of my cash keeps melting to zero!" Well certainly those customers know now that you are going to be around for a very long time, now! Many of us just save money to buy a house or something we want but all we see is that house inflating faster than we can save. "Saving should be a good thing, right? I just want money that doesn't melt away!" really loved it; 2 hours well worth listening to all 2 hours! p.s. Michael is right, youtube is a treasure trove of knowledge and information; thanks Raoul for putting up so much there for anyone anywhere who is interested in learning

Michael just made $500M in 1 month. Plus MicroStrategy Inc., has 3x in price in 1 month. I bet he is laughing all the way to the bank

Never ending lag. Sigh.....

How can I increase the audio speed?

Sorry stupid question what is p&l?

Brilliant. Other than GBTC, how can one buy bitcoin for an IRA? Thanks.

Top !!!!!

Raoul, do you ever recommend particular (or types) of BTC exchanges?

Entertaining interview and smart guest, but wish he had let Raoul talk more. He is almost certainly right about BTC, but wrong about Gold, and I don’t have the time or interest right now in taking apart his assumptions. I am long both PMs and BTC. He could have given this interview in under an hour, and the long-windedness was frustrating for me at times.

There were once 184 billion bitcoin (it's true, look it up, and while you're there, look up how one very non-decentralized person erased those bitcoins personally.) Also, Xi owns the power supply to vast majority of bitcoin's hashpower and owns jurisdiction over controlling votes to deny any bitcoin transaction at will. Regarding MSTR, Saylor does not have authority to guarantee a century of holding time for his bitcoin. In reality, he is masterfully parlaying a relatively small purchase of bitcoin that has far more importantly spun into a marketing campaign that has sent his stock price from $125 to $180 this year- that, that is what matters.

Brilliant talk!

Amazing interview, thank you both!

This guy's tangents go on tangents!! I love it!. For a relative newbie I learnt so much from these 2 hours (didn't even feel like 2 hours)

Really a great interview. Please have him back soon.

Thanks so much to both for making your brilliant ideas and thoughts digestable for non financials/investors like myself. It is trully a huge source of inspiration and I will keep on following you along the BTC road. Take care and stay safe! J.

Please have CEO of Blockfi Zac Prince on the show

Talk dirty to me: - gold - Bitcoin - one-word .com's

Mike is a true hodler. Domains and Bitcoin. Cyberspace scarcity. Cybernetic hornets nests. Few understand... :)

gold is going to lose +80% over the next century? wasn't it $20 in a century ago? Wasn't it $35 in 1970? I thought he was an interesting guest - but unfortunate it turned into a cheerleading session.

Big likes on this one. Got a membership to watch this video and will keep it waiting for the next!

Fantastic, i've watched almost all the Saylor interviews now, brilliant... Maybe i need to sell my gold as well!

Awesome

Watershed discussion. We are just waiting for the wooden boat builders to discover steel.

Glad to see a dedicated crypto channel on Real Vision, keep up the fantastic work guys! Probably one of the best videos I've seen in a long time!

Learnt a lot during this interview. Steel truly is the perfect building material! Great interview!

Give this a listen. It touches on environmental sustainability, speed of money, and value that is derived from utility. https://open.spotify.com/episode/11xvzfV3m6vOipgFrpnvYj?si=iTSkqq0wSWqqqc4quPCEcA

Raoul, can you comment on the environmental implications of proof-of-work. Bitcoin is uselessly burning tremendous amount of energy solving cryptographic problems. This doesn't seem sustainable on a warming planet. Do you have any comment on bitcoins environmental impact, and what alternatives may exist for the ethical investor?

What a mind blowing interview. Well done Real Vision team! This will be looked back on in several decades as seminal. Saylor is the alpha chad.

This guy seems to be surrounded by people who just agree with whatever he says because a lot of his ideas only sound good at face value. For example, he says gold is a bad store of value because we can simply mine more of it...anyone whos spent any time in the pm market realizes it takes years and years to get a mine up and running and new potential sites are getting harder and harder to find.

Brilliant interview with a lot to digest. I may have missed it, but does Mr. Saylor mention any personal investment in BTC or just the company?

This was a very insightful interview and an amazing insight into a very successful person. Totally agree on his view on bitcoins value. Did anyone else find his his view on gold a little confusing (that there is 2% inflation due to the miners producing) doesn't this go against the S2F model?? isn't it that if gold appreciates it more that it is USD (or any fiat currency) depreciating because of inflation?? Gold has stood the test of time when measured against tangible goods (House, suit, etc...) or am i missing something?

Another masterpiece of Raoul and RV. Thank you!!! Michael is another brilliant salesman and history teller, like Raoul. However, despite the many times he mentions he is an MIT engineer, he has not been able to find out about the main technological risks BTC faces: - the threat of Quantum Computing using Shor's algorithm to break its Elliptic Curve Digital Signature Algorithm (ECDSA), - and the weakness of its curve secp256k1. - the almost impossibility of migrating to a Quantum Resistant algorithm, in replacement of ECDSA, without a complete overhaul of BTC. It is a little sad to me to see that RV gives only one side of the history, the crypto hype. And that it does not educate audience about its potential risks, not just from balanced portfolio risk perspective, but also from technological or governmental perspective. Looking to this comments section I see people over-hyped, making irrational investment decissions based on a superior, but biased (in my opinion) narrative, which was just the opposite of what RV was about, EDUCATE people in macro, finances and investing. I am afraid that having so much at stake (irresponsibly long) may not help to bring a balanced view of the risks entailed by owning lots of ECDSA-based cryptos. I hope they do it in the new RV Crypto. In the meantime if anyone is interested in learning more, here a few links: - https://medium.com/the-capital/quantum-resistant-blockchain-and-cryptocurrency-the-full-analysis-in-seven-parts-part-1-daa211565a68 - https://faqq.info/

Amazing stuff! Thanks

Can someone help me understand real yield or perhaps point me in a direction where I can read/watch to understand it?

Loving Michael's energy and how he walks us through his learning journey and thought process about bitcoin! I think I've never seen a better rational reasoning of why one should choose BTC over legacy products. Fantastic choice to gain a perspective from the corporate world. Absolutely loved this interview and that's exactly why I signed up for Real Vision! Thanks Raoul, thanks team Real Vision!

I've always thought of bitcoins price as a gold monetary price void of its utility, remove the atoms from gold and what remains is a belief. It's no longer a commodity but a belief in an agreement or social contract.

I felt guilty or unsure about looking at COVID in a WWI or II comparison but your explanation of it makes simple yet impactful sense.

Watching Lex Fridman talk with the founder of Etheruem in this YouTube (https://youtu.be/3x1b_S6Qp2Q) and at 41 minutes they discuss what it would take to create a network to surpass bitcoin’s fault tolerance and he pegs it in the low billions of dollars. Isn’t that a disturbingly Low amount should a sovereign government want to corrupt the system to protect fiat?

That was fantastic, really entertaining and great through processes. Thanks Michael

Playing devil's advocate here, pls feel free to bury me under a huge pile of shame and insults There are roughly 300k-350k transactions dealt everyday in BTC (that is let's say the daily number of total transactions for a very small city or large village...) BTC consumes roughly 60 to 70 TWh yearly (that is something like 20% of UK total energy consumption) Now I'm no expert about BTC technology, but I'm curious about couple fo things: 1)how is power consumption correlated with the number of transactions? is it positively correlated? is it positevely correlated but the marginal increase asymptotically shrinking to zero,therefore convergent, or worse a divergent series? 2) the more halvings we have, the higher the price must be in order to keep miners to do their job; but how does that relate again with power consumption. Shouldn't the very last bitcoin to be mined supposed to be worth a value that tends to infinity, and an infinite amount of energy be required to mine it? how sustainable is it? I hope any of this makes sense....

Check out this video from Milton Berg which supports the view that bitcoin is better than commodities https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf4trn7ucGE

if you holding cash you're not losing 30% of your real value. you're losing 30% in relative value compared to those who were skilfull, brave and lucky enough to buy the march/april dip. that's a different thing from inflation I agree CPI is bad measure, you need some sort of a mix between CPI and asset inflation, but Nasdaq YTD performance, or S&P march-to-date performance cannot be taken as a measure for inflation

Sorry to be contrarian, but this video was all about traditional investing, or more specifically, all the historical alpha Saylor so proudly shares from his past. Then this tradFi guy stumbles onto to BTC after dismissing it not so long ago, and makes a big trade. Great. I’m glad for any new blood, especially from the traditional finance space. But there is so little value shared here in terms of crypto investing! Maybe move this one out and put it in the section for interviews with smart traders. This is not an interview about crypto, it’s a video about how a successful traditional trader just came to the inevitable realization most smart traders will come to very shortly. Sorry, I’m just really eager for high value content on crypto; a space deeply devoid of the type of valuable insights RV has offered in the traditional markets. I know that is a high calling. It’s a Wild West world sitting on a spinning top in a dark closet of a building with no address. So few are covering the space with anything other than either hype and speculation without numbers, or a geek/tech perspective with altruistic wide-eyed optimism. I want measurable data, analysis, tools... I’m so hopeful it will show up here, even with a sliver of the alpha RV services offer to the tradFi market. My subscription expires in a few days. I, like perhaps a many here, signed up for a trial before your crypto virtual conference. I think we are all hoping to see something in this new channel that would have us sign up again, at any price.

Sounds like Bitcoin is a riskless investment for the next 100 years. What could possibly go wrong?

I think I just wet myself

Didn't think I'd watch the whole video given the 121 minute run time...but loved every minute. Really great talk Raoul & Michael. *Adds to Bitcoin position*

Freaking amazing interview. He had tons of energy and I really enjoyed the life story. This guy is great would love to see a follow-up in the future.

Very interesting video if a little more of a monologue than an interview. There is no doubt that Mr Saylor has one of the most interesting histories of anybody previously seen on RVT. I read all the comments below and thought there was some good pushback to Michael's very self assured stance. I agreed with many, possibly most of his points but don't quite agree with him on gold, but that fine! However, to those saying this is the best RV interview ever, I have to disagree. Grant Williams interview with Tony Deden was for me the best ever. I would contrast Mr Saylor's style with Mr Dedens. One is great to have a drink with, the other is a fountain of knowledge and worth spending a day being tutored by. I will let the reader decide which is which.

Really enjoyed this episode. Bullish!

Top RV interview

Great interview, thanks. Saylor very poetic - BC ecosystem "an organic mass feeding off encrypted energy" ! Definitely read a lot of sci-fi .......

WOW!!

This was so interesting! Worth every minute!

I liked this interview. Michael's enthusiasm is obvious, and Raoul did a good job of letting him speak with just the right amount of steering and clarification. That said, I can't say I'm convinced. I own gold and BTC, but they are quite different. Gold is an asset; BTC is a speculation. If I could own only one I'd choose gold every time.

Pretty good interview and pationate guy BUT: - All his arguments are base on LINEAR thinking...CYCLE anyone?!??! - If you are a shareholder of Microstrategy (-43% over 20 years), you would have been better with bonds ;-)

Gold will keep growing at 2%? No it won't - law of diminishing returns (we're making fewer and fewer discoveries). Not even dignifying the question of the new chemistry with an answer. If I buy a house in Florida the property taxes will take the value of my property to 0 over time? 30 minutes later: turns out it's multiplied by 200 in 90 years... I own bitcoin, so not criticizing for the fun of it here, but he was incredibly long-winded, and dropped a lot of nonsense on the way. Problem of having been a CEO for too long and being surrounded by people who always sound interested in your life and never disagree.

Raoul - re-hypothecation ... this bloke understands 3 syllable words only. Stop it. it is 1 million times better and everyone else is not missing that smarter faster better and steel and masony better.

It would have been nice to address the risk of Government regulation or outright banning the use of certain crypto currencies. That is the most convincing potential risk for crypto to me. I also wonder if since this is a rather new technology and asset that there are many downsides we do not yet understand but will reveal themselves as time goes on. It’s easy to think to something very positively when it hasn’t really been tested in the real world yet. However, overall I remain bullish and this was very interesting. I feel the need to buy more Bitcoin now.

Great interview. I think his thinking on gold is flawed. The primary assumption was "if you owned all the gold in existence" has never happened in 5000+ years, and I'll venture to say it probably will never happen. Secondly, The amount of gold produced by mining has mostly been outstripped by the growth in human population, thus the gold per capita has mostly been shrinking. The idea of losing 99% of cash value every 100 years is about right. The dollar has lost over 99% of its value since the federal reserve has been in existence. The pound is worth about 1/300 of what is was when the Bank of England started about 300 years ago. Personally I think preservation of spending power will be found in an asset(s) that are not administered by government or their agencies. Gold, Silver and bitcoin all fit that bill.

So is not MSTR stock a great play on software AND bitcoin? This $500M investment is not factored into the stock price.

Can Real Vision disclose if it is receiving payment in any form from Crypto players of sort? I can not otherwise understand this push in pitching Crypto.

Insane interview. I started mining bitcoin about 5 years ago and have been accumulating ever since. I have never sold any of my stash. It's been one hell of a ride so far. Looking forward to the next 5 years and what may come.

Amazing Interview! Have you ever tried getting James Dale Davidson on RV? The Author of the The Sovereign Individual?

He just got my whole pension allocation. All already done.

Is a bit bitcoin exchange ant-fragile with respect to an EMP? Is all the bitcoin in the world anti-fragile to a nuclear war? i hope I can buy my RealVision crypto subscription in bitcoin?

Raoul/Ash, could you persuade Michael to share his BTC education program (that he used with his execs)?

Fantastic interview. Rare Candid insights from such high level CEO and investor. Insights and exchange between the both you worth their weight in gold??? no bitcoin??? :)

Realvision again showing the value of its products... Great interview with a guy I did not know anything about but Saylor is brilliant..

For me the best RealVision interview I've watched to date.

Here's the problem with his logic - Bitcoin has regularly lost 50%. Cash doesn't lose 50%. Not sure a 50% loss of your cash is a steel ship compared to cash depreciating at 2% per year.

At 1:48:30 Raoul made me feel a lot better about myself. "The terrifying moment when you transfer your bitcoin from the exchange to your hard wallet and say, "Oh @#%& I hope I put in the right numbers." I guess that is a universal feeling for all newcomers.

Did i am the only ppl found the cover page guy and the content inside guy look so different? Just another Great interview that blow my mind...

Brilliant, inspirational and reassuring conversation : )

This dude is so full of himself, god help Microstrategy!

Finally, someone who understands the difference between Proof-of-Work and Proof-of-Stake, re: Ethereum. Its a relief to see someone with the clarity of Michael Saylor. More, please.

Magnificent Raoul.

What are folks views on Plan B's Stock to Flow vs ByteTree's Transaction Volume valuation models? . Charlie Morris at ByteTree says if everyone buys and holds (like Saylor plans to) then transaction volumes will fall and this could drive down the Bitcoin price. Does there not need to be an active network for price to grow? Perhaps RV could invite Charlie to explain his model for balance?

The last 40 minutes are really good.

absolutely, totally worth the 2 hours. great interview raoul!

I think after bitcoin formed a head and shoulders recently then dropped and then nearly filled the 9600 area gap with a bit of a bounce around 10k, there will be another test downwards first. Having been in since around 5k I’m being patient and mindful of dollar cost averaging my position adding on pullbacks. I didn’t feel the need to add significantly at 10k area with the gap so close although I did add a little just below in the 9800 area. Not surprisingly 10k was a well defended level in the short term. My money is on down some more first before adding some more. If I’m wrong then adding higher up is ok with me too. Some have observed that as being foolish. I’m playing long term and average pricing is important imho.

If so many have invested or are investing in Bitcoin why is it not going up? One year ago today it was worth $10,168, today it's worth $10,800. Compare that to increases in silver, gold, some stocks and real estate. I wonder if we are early in Bitcoin? Maybe we are going to have another decade or two like the last decade. I hope not but something I am wondering about.

Plenty of interesting comments below and unfortunately, it feels we have a few haters creeping onto the platform. We're all here to learn, not to get castigated when we're wrong. Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone and all that.......Anyway.....Whether bullish or bearish, in disagreement or not, I must say I was truly refreshed by his care for the survival of the company and stewardship of the company capital....being responsible. (Compared to some of the stuff I have read on Epsilon Theory (Great read) in relation to one of the airline CEOs in particular, whom seem to only care to feather their own nests). His passion invigorated me, even if his thought process seemed disjointed at times. I was surprised to see he doesn't seem to be a significant shareholder however....although HDS may not be 100% accurate....

Awesome interview! Thanks!

If you are having trouble getting access to this please let us know. Some comments suggests you aren't all able to watch it? RV Crypto is available to everyone...

great, great, great.

How vulnerable is bitcoin over 100 years to a carrington event/EMP/Electrical failure/Civilization collapse/satelite failure/loss of keys/Far superior replacement?. I think older people who have more money are more likely to buy gold when fear prevails.(only in the short term)

Have to agree with some of the critics below, this was quite underwhelming and a lot of the reasoning seemed fairly sloppy imo. Don‘t agree that this somehow devalues RV or the content in general though. Seems interesting in itself to understand the thought process behind the decision even if one thinks that the arguments were weak.

That was a great interview. Well done. I would point out that 1 oz of gold still buys the same number of hot dogs in 2020 that it did in 1920 so I don't buy the argument that you lose 2% per year of purchasing power in gold. The gold supply increases, but so does productivity and population. They tend to offset each other. I have fears for both btc and gold. BTC is only as good as its encryption. Quantum computing is currently within the reach of state actors. Soon it will be within the reach of hacker networks. BTC needs to deal with that weakness asap. The prime factoring problem that underlies all modern cryptography algorithms can be hacked with quantum computing. I was surprised that a MIT engineer didn't mention encryption concerns. My engineering degree is far less prestigious, but quantum hacking potential is constantly on my mind, not only for btc but for the entirety of Internet commerce. Cheap power worries me with gold. If the fusion reactor in France is successful, it's only a matter of time before fusion gets more and more efficient. If electric power generation gets cheap enough, you can make all of the gold you want. For both gold and btc, these things need to be in your 100 year time horizon, yet I don't hear anyone talking about either one.

That's a great interview which I picked up thanks to Raoul on a daily briefing that I randomly watched (so much contents on Real vision, hard to filter out what is worth one hour of the time watching that at the end I don't watch anything at all). Ironically watching this long 2 hours video was productive. Let me summarised my thought for the penny it worths. "Real yield are around -30%” interesting but it's the yield for people living off their capital trying to buy assets. Not Mr John who sell his time against money to pay his rent as 90% of the population. A billionaire needs perhaps 3 or 4 cars and 20 pairs of shoes but that is it. Those people don’t run much of consumption in a tertiary economy and apparently, during the 21st century, neither invest their proceeds in the real economy. So what do they do with their cash apart investing in financial assets? Are they running QE on their own? It might be about time to see that cash unleashed into the real economy and create jobs rather than parked into a storage financial asset which is BTC. I will tell you what asset you could buy that will lift up the world. Give your cash to banks, they will leveraged it into the real world and in 100 years, yes let me tell you that. There will obviously still be around and still ripping their customers off for the satisfaction of their shareholder financial returns. Again I do believe it's a great interview and a great content but I want to emphasise that if you are talking about -30% real yields now because of the tech bubble. What about the -80% real yield on the crypto world. Yes. The same should apply. Ok it hasn't been moving (haha) for the last couple of years but what is the percentage appreciation of this asset overall? Both of you guys are probably way smarter than myself but, come on, the arguments don’t make any sense. All the smart people around you are buying into this, really ? wow. It might be about time for you all to live without your capital interest payments to have a sense about what is the real world and its financial insecurity. I would have thought it could have been a nice demonstration on how inflation expectation affects his rational mindset (and perhaps this is what we had) but at the end it sounds just like a commercial for (corporate) people to buy bitcoin and my argument is this. You have half a billion dollar in cash that you are afraid to see eroded (100 years really, there is nowhere else to invest into that timeframe? Perhaps not now, agreed but come on) and you don’t want to invest it in treasury for whatever reason as the yield is too low, or tech stocks valuation are too high, lol. (No the economy is not made of tech stocks, even though technology is an edge of each company). Thus you decide to invest (all, if I understand correctly, lol) into BTC which have an even higher price, the only difference is that it cannot be quantified or explained as it doesn't produce any cash flow so doesn't have any intrinsic value. Well what will happen, and you must certainly have a plan B, if BTC looses a large chunk of its value? (for whatever reason). I am not even saying it will, just a risk point of view which seemed to have been completely discarded in this episode. So basically if I rephrase with my simple words, the whole point of this interview. You don’t invest your corporate treasury into BTC. You invest cash that you don’t need and don’t know what to do with it in BTC which is rather different for me. (You said that it takes a long time to convert cash into BTC so one can assume it is not liquid and it will be the same on the other side when you would want to convert BTC into cash, so no, trading out on Sundays won't be possible). These are not cash anymore. This is a bet (which I hope will pay off for you) leveraged through your company saving or let's simply call it your company treasure (not even treasury) Apart from that, the rational behind why bitcoin should hold its value due to technology investment and the diluted effect is very interesting and makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

Could have shortened this by 80% if we all just agreed that M. Saylor is the smartest, greatest, sharpest guy ever.

Wow, what a free ranging interview. Thanks to Raoul for letting Saylor spout off and continue with his many digressions. The interview allowed for some amusing analogies and Saylor's contagious excitement for Bitcoin to be fully explained.

I literally sold a stack of Alts for More BTC because of this interview. Cheers

I tried. And here died Real Vison.

Couldn't make it past the first 8 min. What an incredibly humble guy,

Enjoyed the interview, hugely thought provoking. Nice job Raoul on staying focussed and patient with your interviewee, you can definitely coach HH on that skill! It did get a bit mania like in places, and probably didn't present the case against bitcoins future success or alternatives in a way that is needed to get the nay sayers onboard. That said, he's put his money where his companies mouth is and that is bold statement indeed. I'm always left wondering though in this world of unquestioned fiat debasement, and very few viable alternatives to preserve wealth, whether in the end anyone can really "win". If fiat debases 100x vs bitcoin and everything else, don't governments just tax all hard asset gains in all their forms at massively higher levels to offset the gains. In other words, isn't it all a zero sum game at some point until the financial system truly resets in a blockchain based setting and wealth is allowed to be freely accumulated again by individuals and companies alike? For the record, I am long and believer in the blockchain / crypto / token revolution, i'm just not sure what success in this game will really look like when the corollary of a bitcoin meltup is a global societal meltdown.....maybe that is topic for a future interview..

I feel this one interview paid for my subscription and then some! After 3 decades plus of investing. What a great big pic view and then excellent descriptive path to/of bitcoin Thank you so ! JV

Amazon why would i buy that " they just sell books".......... Opportunity lies in misunderstandings

Wonderful interview. Kudos to Michael, he is superb explaining his logic. Raoul just sat and listened for the most part.

Firstly, how much of a legend is Michael. Not just because I am a mad crypto bull but because he had the guts to really put it on the line, talk about putting your money where your mouth is!

Loved the conversation. I am new to crypto so was very enlightening. However, I wonder with such a visionary CEO who clearly knows so much about finance in addition to technololgy, why hasn't Microstrategy not created much shareholder value in the last decade - not even kept up with the currecy debasement. Any thoughts?