How Coronavirus Exposed the “Shaky Foundation”

Published on
March 28th, 2020
45 minutes

How Coronavirus Exposed the “Shaky Foundation”

The Interview ·
Featuring Michael Krieger

Published on: March 28th, 2020 • Duration: 45 minutes

What happens when an upheaval so massive forces financial markets, governments, and society to rethink how our systems work? Michael Krieger, author of the Liberty Blitzkrieg, joins Real Vision to explain what coronavirus and the response to the outbreak has revealed about the condition of American systems – from financial markets to the health care system. Tracing the story of financial markets and societal trends over the past two decades, Krieger outlines how our systems have been pushed to the brink – focusing on emergency policy responses and the everything bubble. He also provides viewers with potential solutions to the systemic decay that has been brought to the forefront by the coronavirus outbreak.



  • rs
    richard s.
    7 April 2020 @ 13:29
    Has he ever checked military power & GDP between Russia and the U.S.? Russian GDP is worse than Korea or Taiwan.
  • DT
    Daniel T.
    5 April 2020 @ 08:34
    guy is a storyteller, good entertainment value
  • CC
    Charles C.
    2 April 2020 @ 18:46
    Thanks RV. This is the kind of interview you won't find anywhere else, especially in the financial press. Sadly, I agree with everything Michael says. We need a revolution, starting with ourselves.
  • PB
    Paul B.
    1 April 2020 @ 00:15
    Spot on dude, we need to clean out the lot right down to Big Pharma and Education
  • NA
    N A.
    31 March 2020 @ 06:17
    Thanks for this interview. I think he nails the Zeitgeist perfectly. The frustration though is what is the solution? And in my view there is none that's what makes it so brutal. My personal playbook is get ready for Japan, life goes on, quality of life can be high, but it is a grind, asset prices go nowhere, deflation, rates at zero forever. Meanwhile China will rise, not to global domination but as a second pole in this unipolar world. You can like or dislike this, that's not the point, the point is this is more or less guaranteed. The US could try inflate its way out of all this but that just solves the debt issue, demographics remain an issue, China will not be stopped either, the world will change, get used to it (not that Michael doesn't know this).
  • pw
    protima w.
    30 March 2020 @ 23:12
    I agree with most things Krieger says. The thing that bothers me is that he does not offer practical solutions. How do you break the cycle of poverty or inspire people to be leaders? Eg Many US companies struggle to find engineers. American engineers are a dying breed. Companies hire foreigners who grab the opportunity to work hard and make a life for themselves. Millenial engineers are doing extremely well for themselves (I know because I work with many of them in cutting edge application areas). The ones not doing well are people who get a loan to go to college to study gender identity, political science or a subject they will never find a well paying job in and then you are trapped in the cycle. You can't blame schools and colleges for not teaching you to be smart about picking out a lucrative career, you got to be invested in putting in the hard work and long hours. Writing about how the world should be is all fine and dandy but finding solutions that give real results and changes lives is another thing.
  • JO
    Johnny O.
    30 March 2020 @ 21:02
    Is Donald Trump quietly nobbling the Fed right now, opening up the possibility of ending a century of their debt-based money scheme? The first step is that, under the latest announced emergency programs, the Treasury is now directing the issuance of new debt. From Bill Still, author of The Money Masters:
  • JO
    Johnny O.
    30 March 2020 @ 20:33 is Mike's blog
  • TM
    Thomas M.
    30 March 2020 @ 19:37
    what would be the affect if people just stopped! Stop buying what you don't need , kind of reversion to "Value"
  • WG
    Wade G.
    30 March 2020 @ 17:19
    Great interview. Thought Krieger was exactly right on country vs. empire and generally in his characterization of our contemporary history. Inspiring views; I need to read his blog.
  • PD
    Peter D.
    30 March 2020 @ 02:36
    This is the best investment advice I have seen on Real Vision. Kreiger is telling us to stop looking to Washington and to start investing in ourselves. That counts as an investment.
  • RN
    Rachel N.
    29 March 2020 @ 20:57
    The interviewer looks stoned and struggling to pay attention. Lol
    • CB
      Clifford B.
      30 March 2020 @ 01:34
      Smoke the herb, give thanks and praise.....
  • CM
    Chris M.
    29 March 2020 @ 22:23
    This should be made free - amazing lead generation. I'd share it wide and far.
  • CM
    Chris M.
    29 March 2020 @ 22:22
    This is the best thing I've seen on Real Vision ever. Never heard of Michael Krieger before, but I've just become a big fan.
  • AA
    Aymman A.
    28 March 2020 @ 23:01
    Incredible interview. I have been saying all this for years. But his presentation was very eloquent. Introducing myself, in addition to being obsessed with global macro for the last 15 years, I am also an MD. I can tell you that the medical response to the Coronavirus is a complete cluster fuck. The degree of incompetency is mind numbing. When the Chinese built that hospital in Wuhan in 6 days, I walked around in the Doctor’s lounge I asked intelligent doctors, hey guys what do you think, should we prepare? ALWAYS WITHOUT EXCEPTION I got the answer “O we should not worry, we will be fine”. Now on TV they say listen to the authorities. Which authority? The same characters in the CDC who did not develop a test kit in January? The same characters who refused to use the WHO test kits when the WHO offered us testing kits because “ We are America. We don’t need the WHO kits”. Why is it that the WHO is staring the SOLIDARITY international trial for COVID drug therapy. And our federal has not done that. You know if we are talking about re-purposing old drugs a trial can give statistical results in 3 weeks and requires only, maybe 10 million dollars. The only trials that I know of are with Remdesivir because Gilead wants to make money. But drugs work better in COMBINATION. Why not a trial of Remdesivir + Hydroxychloroquine? Gilead will not do that because they cannot patent Hydrochloroquine. Why doesn’t the CDC or even DARPA fund a trial? No N95 masks. No gowns. No ventilators. It is completely f... ed up. Serology tests that test for antibodies are needed fo diagnose latent infection. At least one company Bioamerica BMRA has developed the test which it is trying to market to foreign countries. But it is forbidden to market it in the US. Really the jell diffusion technology for these tests are very old. Same technology as home pregnancy test. Piss on the stick and in 15 minutes you get a + sign if you are pregnant. For COVID it is done with a drop of blood. These tests are available in the UK and Europe. I emailed them. They told me that they are forbidden to export to the US. WTF??? I feel like I am working in a third world country. Yes this is how empires fall. I am afraid that Coronavirus is not just the pin for the financial bubble. Is will prove to be the pin for Pax Americana.
    • JG
      Johan G.
      29 March 2020 @ 21:59
      All those tests have been started here in Europe, and test for antibodies will be available in april, going through verification now. In Norway we have tested nearly two percent of the population, new cases is leveling off after about two weeks of effective lock down, and mortality is at 0,4% of confirmed cases. They will now start testing through random samples to verify how big a part of the population has the virus. This virus can be beaten, but it takes real leadership; not 'fake news' leadership.
  • AA
    Aymman A.
    28 March 2020 @ 23:27
    Well I got that off my chest. I needed to rant. I hope I was not too offensive. Most financial types don’t understand medicine. And most medical people are clueless about finance. I am a practicing MD. My area of interest is human-computer decision making systems. My obsession is discretionary global macro. But I never expected medicine and finance to collide in this way. This epidemic is going to get unbelievably worse. Florida and Michigan are probably next. The health care system will completely collapse. Very few hospital systems were prepared. Mayo Clinic was outstanding in its early preparation. Others were caught with their pants down. State and Federal agencies are incompetent. I disagree that individuals can make much of a difference in this pandemic. It is a feel-good thing to say but disaster management has to be top down. Until the epidemic curve is bent, the financial market will will continue to be sucked into a black hole. The Fed will buy everything including toilet paper. They will probably succeed... or maybe not. But Wall Street is not comprehending the death toll. A typical ass hole response from a financial person was from that Wells Fargo ex executive that he would call back to work people under 55 and yes some of them will die. The health care system is breaking. I see it every day! There is the real possibility of civil society breaking down. If you have read my post this far I thank you. I normally write just boring and intellectual stuff. Not passionate stuff.
    • DK
      Dylan K.
      29 March 2020 @ 21:57
      Aymman, completely agree with both of your comments and what Michael is saying. He did an interview with Marty Bent from TFTC that goes into further detail. I'm a practicing pharmacist with an obsession with finance/macroeconomics. This COVID crisis is overwhelming the pharmaceutical industry as well and there is sure to be price gauging from major drug manufacturers. If anyone is interested in going down a different rabbit role, do some research on pharmacy benefit managers (PBM's) and how these middlemen provide zero value but report billions of dollars in revenue year over year.
  • PS
    Paul S.
    29 March 2020 @ 20:07
    First, I think one needs to understand, and respect, how difficult it is to do what Michael Krieger is doing. He is standing on the outside and speaking truth to power, criticizing the system itself, essentially pointing out that it is morally corrupt from the foundation up. And he is right. Yes at times he says "they" a lot, as if there is an intentional conspiracy at the top, rather than an unintentional one. But let us not split hairs: the latter is true. What we are seeing is the triumph of market principles over moral principles in all aspects of American life, and the people who get ahead in that system are some of the worst among us. We do have a leadership crisis, and a competence crisis, and the elevation of a pig to the highest office in the land is the perfect example of both.
  • wj
    wiktor j.
    29 March 2020 @ 17:45
    Spot on. Its even worse in Europe. I would love his thoughts on EU. What I see is that everything that was about EU is now shutdown. Countries have boarder control. Countries ban exporting of curtain goods. Basically, the virus has exposed how weak the EU union is.
  • AM
    Alonso M.
    29 March 2020 @ 14:48
    An excellent interview. I wanted to add to the discussion on crude oil market politics and maybe try to connect some dots. Saudi Riyal is pegged to USD whereas Russian Ruble is not. Hence net backs in Russia are not suffering as much as net backs in Saudi Arabia. Looking at an inflation-adjusted price chart of WTI going back 70 years, I noticed prices are scraping levels seen in 1973 right before the massive mid-1970s spike. Demand destruction in crude oil markets related to Covid-19 is immediate and very real. Supply destruction is also very real though not as immediate. Now if you believe Greta is correct, then my comment is not for you and I accept your down vote. I happen to believe (perhaps incorrectly) that a bifurcated world relying more on domestic production of goods in lieu of imports will result in consumer price inflation over time, and I don't think any central bank will be able to raise rates sufficiently because Governments have too much debt. I suspect the end result will be a repeat of the mid to late 1970s cycle.
    • AJ
      Aaron J.
      29 March 2020 @ 17:18
      I think Greta makes some valid points but I think you might be correct too...
  • OC
    Otto C.
    28 March 2020 @ 16:59
    What Michael is discussing is so obvious but it needs to be repeated over and over again because people are not paying attention or are simply aware of the problem but don't want to get actively involved. The systemic problem is not the lack of leaders but the fact that real leaders don't want to get involved in politics. The COVID 19 Act money is mainly going, like in 911 and 2008, to the people and companies which caused the issues to begin with. Most bankers and CEO's should be in jail. Until we do this, we'll never solve this economic pandemic.
    • CG
      Christine G.
      29 March 2020 @ 06:02
      And people have problems with people who think outside the box and are brilliant. When the repo market went slightly off the rails in September, the only candidate to mention this (and probably the only candidate who even knows what it is) was Elizabeth Warren. You think CEO' should be in jail? The only candidate with specific anti-corruption proposals was Warren. But, aside from being a woman who clearly does not know her place, most people don't have the breadth of knowledge to listen to her. We don't want to be intimidated by someone we want to have a beer with. Everyone will have a role in what is to come, and we will all have to think outside our comfort zones.
    • SB
      Stephen B.
      29 March 2020 @ 17:04
      I also agree with nearly everything Michael said. What is missing, however, is an acknowledgement that change may not come easily. My primary concern is that all evidence points to the BIS/IMF/Western CB's taking all possible steps to maintain their control over the issuance of currency (primarily the US$ but also the Euro and others). I fear them using various crises as cover to block all forms of competitor (PM's, cash, crypto's - or the RMB). Instead, they have some form of global digital currency planned for us. 2025 is as good an estimate, as any, for when the turning point will occur but to get to that point a major struggle will occur on the control of the currency(s).
  • CB
    Clifford B.
    29 March 2020 @ 16:40
    USA is not the first or even largest "empire" to fall but it shall, sooner or later. As far as the USD hegemony goes, this has already begun to unravel and unlike the past countries (Libya, Nicaragua, Venezuela,Cuba, iraq, iran)who tried, this lot are too big for the US to invade. Russia with no USD denominated debt, India transacting with Arabs with their own currencies, Chinese yuan oil contracts, Russia to china gas deals within their currencies. Large government bullion purchases. These things may seem small now but that's how big changes begin.
  • JA
    John A.
    29 March 2020 @ 14:33
    Not sure if Mike realizes it or not, but he is describing the 4th Turning. For those who have not read it, now that you have more time, please do. It changes the way you look at EVERYTHING around you.
  • MN
    29 March 2020 @ 14:01
    I do hope the it's-all-about-me generation step up and think about the (usually worse off) others?
  • HR
    Humberto R.
    29 March 2020 @ 12:08
    Why no filmed on date? Bring back the filmed on date for all videos. Thank you
  • PJ
    Peter J.
    29 March 2020 @ 10:36
    Excellent interview, can’t think of anything in the discussion I disagreed with.
  • ds
    david s.
    29 March 2020 @ 10:18 we have been here before
  • CG
    Christine G.
    29 March 2020 @ 05:48
    He is completely right. As a boomer and a hippy and as an LSD Dead Head and as a clinical psychologist, let me tell share some observations. People can change, sometimes remarkably, groups change slowly and can go backwards. Our current social values are a far cry from what I had hoped as a twenty something. But there are improvements. More fathers are emotionally involved in parenting and housework; you might think that is nothing, but it's not. Those are markers for underlying changes in our sense of reality and in the relationship between genders. Women's lib is really human lib; men have as much to gain. Policies and values that are pro-women, pro-people of color, pro-environment, pro-social networks including education, pro-union, pro-human rights abroad, go together. The other side is against all of those things. On the other side, the underlying values of the elite and the well-off are based on power - social and financial. Among the inadequately educated soldiers on that side, many want social hierarchical structure : the elite lead the masses, men have more power than women, humanity can dominate the environment. The most significant predictor of voting for Trump was authoritarianism. Another positive, NGO's have developed and are fighting the good fight and form a structure for supporting a more decent, humanistic and moral society - Earth Justice, Human Rights Watch, Mercy Corps, Southern Poverty Law Center, etc.. And let's not forget the increasing acceptance and availability of counseling; it gives people the space to reflect and become the person they want to be by discarding old beliefs. Let us also remember that this struggle has gone on throughout history. It will not be won in one generation, but let's hope this era can make significant progress. Now, with regard to re-anchoring the financial/monetary system that will probably involve Special Drawing Rights including gold in addition to the major currencies administered by the International Monetary Fund.
  • AC
    Andrew C.
    29 March 2020 @ 04:22
    Why can’t I post I comment with the App?
    • AC
      Andrew C.
      29 March 2020 @ 04:24
      Sorry, there’s a bug somewhere in here.... tried to post, but get a sorry, an unexpected error occurred.
    • PG
      P G.
      29 March 2020 @ 05:39
      I have the same issue
  • AW
    Aaron W.
    29 March 2020 @ 05:15
    I'd appreciate occasional interviews of people who have blown up their portfolios. I'm here to learn, the good and the bad.
  • KS
    KEVIN S.
    28 March 2020 @ 14:26
    I thought this was a very interesting conversation. One thing I found myself wanting to hear from Michael as he was discussing how "unwise" all the current leaders and authority are in the world, was a specific example of who, in his opinion, he would consider (either presently or historically) to be a wise leader. I think that would have helped present a context to the type of leadership he felt that the world needed. He stated that there are many out there...who are they?
    • DM
      Daniel M.
      28 March 2020 @ 16:29
      I can't think of a single current leader on the national scene that could be considered a leader of quality and substance.
    • AA
      Aymman A.
      29 March 2020 @ 04:57
      Well historically we have always produced leaders during times of crisis. Lincoln during the civil war. FDR, Kennedy. Something bigger has happened to America. We are not producing leaders. Just a bunch of disgusting sycophants and sociopaths pandering to the rich. Crony Capitalism!!
  • AC
    Andrew C.
    29 March 2020 @ 04:22
    People don’t change. Dr House. I don’t totally agree, but I believe in 2 years things will be back to how they were before, socially I mean. And politically. Greed is too strong an emotion. Especially with this bail out. Let the bastards go bankrupt. If airlines fail, do you think those planes are gunna just sit there and rust away? Nope, opportunity for someone else.
  • DK
    D K.
    29 March 2020 @ 00:52
    Stop the lootin' & start the prosecutin'...
  • KV
    Keld V.
    28 March 2020 @ 23:31
    Total scatterbrain, reminds me of Alex Jones.
  • JE
    James E.
    28 March 2020 @ 22:38
    Interesting discussion.
  • BS
    Bevyn S.
    28 March 2020 @ 22:30
    Awesome Mike, thanks for sharing. Anyone who enjoyed this should read new class war by Michael Lind...! Interesting parallels.
  • SP
    Sat P.
    28 March 2020 @ 08:12
    Michael is spot on. All of the politicians and top people around the world are from another era and they need to all be cleared out. The big problem with the millennials is that they’re too busy watching Netflix instead of engaging in the civic duty. I actually think that if Gen X started to step up and vote with their wallets, things could change faster.
    • DB
      Douglas B.
      28 March 2020 @ 14:58
      Ok boomer
    • TM
      The-First-James M.
      28 March 2020 @ 19:27
      Gen X are not Boomers Douglas. We're the ones who as a Generation, are going to have the thankless task of trying to fix this mess. I say this as a 44 year old.
    • BS
      Bevyn S.
      28 March 2020 @ 22:24
      Lmao! Classic.
    • BS
      Bevyn S.
      28 March 2020 @ 22:27
      Hopefully this crisis will eliminate inter-generational bickering...
  • Sv
    Sid v.
    28 March 2020 @ 22:26
    when did it become unique to listen to someone state the obvious truth?
  • FO
    Frederic O.
    28 March 2020 @ 22:14
    I loved this interview, Michael is a brilliant thinker with a track record to show for it. We are in the Fourth Turning, and things will radically change. Embracing it is the way forward.
  • DM
    Dominic M.
    28 March 2020 @ 20:49
    Outstanding interview. Cuts to the chase.
  • RW
    Raymond W.
    28 March 2020 @ 20:12
    Mostly just a bunch of rambling ...
  • NF
    N. F.
    28 March 2020 @ 18:39
    How could a corrupt electoral system produce anything other than corrupt government?
    • DS
      David S.
      28 March 2020 @ 20:01
      Maybe not corrupt, but lazy, indifferent and complacent. DLS
  • pm
    patryk m.
    28 March 2020 @ 19:40
    "slave mentality" been saying it for years nitsche was never as relevant as nowdays.
  • PS
    Pavel S.
    28 March 2020 @ 19:30
    Michael, you seriously believe interest rates might go up? Isn´t it just more likely they cap the yield curve / go Japan / keep reloading the bazooka?
  • SS
    Steven S.
    28 March 2020 @ 19:23
    About time Real Vision has a real American fearless Hero & TRUTH TELLER on this platform.
  • dg
    daniel g.
    28 March 2020 @ 17:50
    DAMN THIS GUY made me depressed
  • DM
    Daniel M.
    28 March 2020 @ 16:27
    "Central bankism is welfare for billionaires" and until this changes nothing will move in a positive direction. No one in the Swamp in DC is even willing to discuss this because politician's campaigns are financed by people like Sheldon Adelson and Paul Singer on the GOP side and NYC hedge fund operators on the Democrat side.
  • DS
    David S.
    28 March 2020 @ 13:47
    I will wait for the transcript so I can easily count the number of “THEYs” used. From a physiological perspective I do not see anything that has happened in the US over the last 40 years of economic history that needs a conspiracy theory. It is a journey of massive personal greed out of balance with that of the common good. History is replete with examples. We let everyone off the hook by acting like it was not just us or it is totally out of our control. The facts and problems are the same, but the finger is not pointed away. We do not need to find a boogeyman - an imaginary figure used in scare children - when we try to correct massive problems. DLS
  • FG
    Flavio G.
    28 March 2020 @ 12:37
    This reminds me of many bar-chats I have with friends, which always include at least a conspirational one. As much as I enjoy them, I don't significantly close my knowledge gaps with them. I expect more from RV. Example: Bring someone who can explain the possible concrete scenarios for the evolution of the COVID curve, treatments, vaccines, how these might impact the curve, how the curve relates to healthcare capacity, is it going to be multiple curves? possible timeline? containment strategies at hand? solution pipelines? etc. We need someone with specific epidemic know-how, someone with both, a quantitative and qualitative/macro approach.
  • BP
    Bryce P.
    28 March 2020 @ 07:24
    Krieger is always a great listen. Enjoy his unvarnished truth telling. Hearing more from other truth tellers like him would be great. It would be nice to hear interviews with Ron Paul, Gerald Celente and Max Keiser to name a few.. Another truth teller it would be great to hear from on RV would be Congressman Thomas Massie. Lastly, you've had all these Covid-19 "experts" on recently. It would be really good to have an actual real expert on named Dr. Shiva Ayyadurai to discuss Covid-19? He actually has the professional background to inteligently speak about it.
    • GB
      Gold B.
      28 March 2020 @ 11:46
      I disagree. Overton window stuff.
    • PN
      Philip N.
      28 March 2020 @ 12:24
      I would agree about Ron Paul, but the the other two are out there with Jim Willie.
  • GB
    Gold B.
    28 March 2020 @ 11:55
    Interesting, not bad, but a lot of hot air, a lot of rhetoric, not a lot of specifics on a few of the key points... But I guess I appreciate that this is on the 'edge' of where RV situates itself. Good for us to get this perspective.
  • CC
    Cornelius C.
    28 March 2020 @ 11:26
    Made in China 2025...Yep its happening
  • RG
    Razmig G.
    28 March 2020 @ 11:12
    Don't agree with the "we got lazy" premise. It was rather all industries that were gutted & offshored that has led to the current status quo. As always a distinction must be made between the owners of the an industry & ones that worked there.
  • MJ
    Max J.
    28 March 2020 @ 08:33
    Kreiger's knowledge and brutal honesty is excellent, insightful and appreciated!