The Kaplan Doctrine: Conservation, Preservation, and Value

Published on
December 10th, 2019
106 minutes

The Kaplan Doctrine: Conservation, Preservation, and Value

The Interview ·
Featuring Dr. Thomas Kaplan and Dan Tapiero

Published on: December 10th, 2019 • Duration: 106 minutes

Dr. Thomas Kaplan, legendary gold investor and philanthropist, joins Dan Tapiero of DTAP Capital to discuss his illustrious career in the natural resources space, some of Kaplan's biggest winners, and the philanthropic efforts that he passionately pursues. In addition to his natural resource brilliance, he founded the Panthera Corporation, the world's largest conservation effort to save the world's big cats. Kaplan explains why both consolidation in the natural resources industry and global macroeconomic factors are aligning in a way that signals his latest venture, NOVAGOLD, could be the biggest opportunity he has ever encountered. Filmed on November 26, 2019 in New York.



  • ml
    michael l.
    10 June 2020 @ 19:25
    Dr. Kaplan, I just read your response to J Capital - very well done. I have been waiting for awhile here to invest, and while the circumstances are unfortunate, their "hit" job now provides that opportunity. Please pursue J Capital - they deserve it.
  • BN
    Barrett N.
    11 March 2020 @ 23:24
    Thanks RV, Damon & Thomas. Phenomenal interview. BN
  • AE
    Alain E.
    16 January 2020 @ 02:16
    "Intelligence is a commodity; character is a currency." Great quote. "You can buy the most highly rated investment banker, or lawyer, or accountant—brilliant people. But you can't buy character."
  • PB
    Pieter B.
    10 January 2020 @ 19:32
    I bought NG after this presentation and I am currently 5K in profit! Thanks a lot!
  • je
    james e.
    13 December 2019 @ 00:28
    This was excellent. Only question on Novagold is, if so good, why so much heavy insider selling, especially from CEO? Still, great interview/er/ee. RVTV is superb.
    • NB
      Nicholas B.
      9 January 2020 @ 04:10
      Looks like SP is up 22% since the interview was released. Job done ;-)
  • ml
    michael l.
    28 December 2019 @ 22:43
    What a great interview! This is Real Vision at its finest - long form interviews of the best and brightest in finance and industry. Very, very impressed by Kaplan - his clarity of thinking, patience, focus on the end game and humility. Bravo!
  • AP
    Ash P.
    15 December 2019 @ 22:38
    So much to unpack here - where do you start? One to watch over and over and over again. Possibly the best thing I've seen on Real Vision - and that's saying something, not only considering the back catalog, but because I'd never heard of Dr. Kaplan before and figured this was one I was going to skip it. Some nice direction on this from Dan as well - it makes such a difference when you've got an interviewer who knows something about the space (in this case Gold).
    • AP
      Ash P.
      15 December 2019 @ 22:41
      When I say 'knows something about the space' I meant has lived it as an investor. I'm generally impressed by all the talent at Real Vision.
    • NB
      Nicholas B.
      28 December 2019 @ 08:13
      yep, on my second view now, unpacking Nova...
  • SR
    Steve R.
    28 December 2019 @ 04:02
    Having listened to all the interviews with the big names in finance, its very clear that luck is probably the single biggest contributor to people's success.
  • MS
    Matt S.
    24 December 2019 @ 17:15
    According to Forbes, Kaplan founded Apex Silver Mines with $10 million of seed money from Soros. Very interesting.
  • AG
    Adam G.
    17 December 2019 @ 02:38
    I think he is lying. You’re going to own a yellow rock that’s still stuck below all that former support? That’s where the dead bodies are buried. They’re sitting there waiting to sell to you.
    • WM
      Will M.
      23 December 2019 @ 20:51
      Adam, strong and unjustified statement......
  • JL
    Jinny L.
    23 December 2019 @ 00:39
    couple of observations on a great interview and deep think: 1) i could have done without the panthera section (23 minutes long) but i doubt he would have done this without being able to plug this part - i guess quid pro quo on his part for the interview. at least put it in the last section but i am also guessing then viewers will just stop watching so it is quite clever of placing it in the first part of the interview. very clever analytics on RV 2) he is talking his own book on NG so i am not sure about how good this investment can be. i personally think gold will rise so it will lift all boats in a rising tide 3) as some astute viewers have pointed out, way too many insiders are selling which makes me at least skeptical in the short term to medium term. i mean if NG is truly going to be worth multiple times what it is today then why are insiders selling? makes very little sense
  • AH
    Ali H.
    20 December 2019 @ 17:19
    By far the best interview at Real vision together with Stanley Drukenmiller. Very interesting character. what are his views on Crypto?
  • PG
    Philippe G.
    20 December 2019 @ 14:56
    Very interesting guest.
  • IB
    Igor B.
    16 December 2019 @ 17:26
    I reviewed this video on this weekend and then looked up the 5 day chart and recent insiders activity. Oh boy!
    • LC
      Luke C.
      20 December 2019 @ 14:42
      Same. Lots of insider selling, which is fine. They are taking profits. But a larger majority selling than buying.
  • JC
    Joel C.
    18 December 2019 @ 08:35
    i like that Mr. Kaplan'sis humble enough not to eschew the role that luck has played in career. Of course great insight into what you do with that luck and how to make the most of it.... applicable to any field ... quality content. who'd have thought an interview longer than most Hollywood movies would be that captivating! Good job. Now, where did i leave that four leaf clover....
  • pd
    peer d.
    17 December 2019 @ 16:11
    Re Mr. Kaplan's, American "Munich" comment, does he have any children presently serving in the military or, if too young, are any of his children planning on joining the military? Secondly, character being at the center of everything in Mr. Kaplan's universe, how is a country as indebted as USA expected to continue in it's role as the supporter of other profligate treaty members?
  • AF
    Axel F.
    17 December 2019 @ 01:24
    Superb. Thank you.
  • IB
    Igor B.
    16 December 2019 @ 20:36
    Is it pump and dump?
  • ME
    Michael E.
    15 December 2019 @ 09:29
    I’m proud of self made people. It seems he puts big cats ahead of starving people in the world. First feed all the human beings, then worry about animals. Help to free people from dictators, help feed poor in USA & everywhere in the world. Help educate them.
    • SS
      Shanthi S.
      16 December 2019 @ 02:37
      You can feed poor people. Let the guy do what he wants. Anyway, I’m sure he’s helped plenty of people in developing nations via his philanthropy and his investments. That’s the beauty of Capitalism.
  • RJ
    Ryan J.
    15 December 2019 @ 19:49
    Wow. Best piece since Stanley Druckenmiller... keep them coming!
  • NR
    Nelson R.
    15 December 2019 @ 18:42
    Congrats to Dan and Thomas on a great interview and chemistry. I submit to Thomas his jurisdiction argument is true on relative terms FOR NOW but the raise of millennial politics in the coming years (i.e Socialism) will render it untrue in absolute terms LATER. If you plan on monetizing this asset you don’t have as much time as you think you do.
  • CB
    Chris B.
    15 December 2019 @ 02:37
    Really enjoyed this video so congrats to RV for this gem. Dr. Kaplan is a rare find who is smart and can explain his views in such clear terms. Dan T was the right interviewer in my view as to me his personal relationship with Dr. Kaplan was a big part of how good this was. My only wish was that Dan had asked him his view on Bitcoin.
  • IK
    Ian K.
    14 December 2019 @ 19:55
    what's his position on Bitcoin? I can't find any info.
  • DL
    Damian L.
    14 December 2019 @ 16:52
  • WA
    Wissam A.
    14 December 2019 @ 16:29
    That was a brilliant interview.
  • NI
    Nate I.
    13 December 2019 @ 22:52
    No offense to Dan, but I would like to get Grant Williams back. Especially when the topic is gold.
  • KR
    Karl R.
    13 December 2019 @ 21:21
    "Intelligence is plentiful but character is rare." may be worth putting on a desk ornament. wonderful
  • JM
    Jim M.
    13 December 2019 @ 21:15
    Heaven. Too of my very favorite subjects Big Cats and Gold! And Tapiero is always great.
  • WB
    Wes B.
    10 December 2019 @ 17:08
    Once you get through the big cat fetish it's a really really good interview.
    • OK
      Oliver K.
      13 December 2019 @ 19:25
      indeed a great interview. and I also liked the cats part. I learned a lot there as well. and you could have scrolled forward ...
  • M.
    Milton .. | Founder
    12 December 2019 @ 13:56
    Look folks, the moment you insult a person, I will delete your comment. If you have something to say, take a minute and give that thought a mature form. Then take 5 minutes and write a couple of paragraphs where you elaborate. It can be witty, it can be sarcastic or ironic, it can positive, negative or neutral. When you insult the guest or someone in the community, suddenly we don't care what you have to say and I'll delete your comment. Also, you might see this comment on future videos as I'll copy it from time to time. M
    • MK
      Mike K.
      13 December 2019 @ 05:06
      Didn't see any insults - thanks Milton. This is a professional network, so keep it professional. Anything else, take it to twitter. Thanks Milton, please police these comments. Comments are valuable, very valuable. Personally they are as valuable as the interview itself. Seriously! Generally what I do, is click on the video, then arrange the comments "top rated" and I read them all. Before watching the interview. That gives me a generalist basis for the video/interview. This is the only network that provides that. So keep it clean, and ensure that in thrives.
    • ML
      Michele L.
      13 December 2019 @ 06:35
      Thanks, Milton, this is long overdue. I've long been annoyed by certain people's irrelevant comments on a guest's appearance, wardrobe choice and other asinine observations/insults unrelated to the content of their presentation. Disagree with the substance all you want but RV is not the place for trolls to roam unfettered. It embarrasses us all.
    • WM
      Will M.
      13 December 2019 @ 16:56
      Milton yes its about time. There are always a few who jump quickly to the censorship argument, but I have seen occasional comments about peoples appearance or some ladies looks which makes me wonder why they are watching this channel. Decry peoples views based on argument by all means, but read your comment before posting and ask....... would I be happy putting this comment up in bold font on my office noticeboard, or in front of my parents or children?
  • DP
    Daniel P.
    11 December 2019 @ 12:04
    Great interview and dynamic between the two. I don't personally mind Real Vision giving 25 mins to Big Cat Preservation since the viewers can skip to whatever section they like, but hopefully not a trend developing where we'll need to do that for the average interviewee (the exact point I skipped from was where he said "the human being is a parasite")
    • WM
      Will M.
      13 December 2019 @ 16:50
      Perhaps it was a little too long, but that might have been the price of getting him on an interview. However, Daniel, I applaud the constructive way you put your comment out there, instead of berating the interview just because there were a couple of things you disagreed with.
  • JK
    James K.
    10 December 2019 @ 09:26
    Great guest, just a few too many interruptions from Dan IMO disrupting the flow of what Thomas was trying to elaborate.
    • RA
      Ryan A.
      10 December 2019 @ 14:44
    • EB
      Eric B.
      10 December 2019 @ 18:36
    • MK
      Michael K.
      11 December 2019 @ 03:23
      Disagree. I want to hear Dan as much as I want to hear the guest.
    • DT
      Delvix T.
      11 December 2019 @ 09:16
      I disagree. There is clearly a very good relationship between the two, and I don't think Dan's comments detracted from the interview; I think his comments by and large kept the conversation going and perhaps added some structure to the conversation.
    • WM
      Will M.
      13 December 2019 @ 16:43
      There was enough in here to make Dan's comments perfectly acceptable in context of the interview.
  • sc
    sung c.
    12 December 2019 @ 21:05
    What an absolutely fascinating interview of an incredible investor/entrepreneur. Absolutely loved it and yes I was sold on NG and bought some shares with orders for more in the event of a correction. One of my favorite interviews.
  • CW
    CC W.
    12 December 2019 @ 19:02
    Glad to hear from someone who has skin in the game.
  • VK
    Vipin K.
    12 December 2019 @ 16:47
    Great interview. Tom hats off to you for using your money for such a noble purpose!
  • js
    john s.
    12 December 2019 @ 14:36
    Glad I just renewed my subscription to listen to this.
  • DY
    Dmytro Y.
    12 December 2019 @ 03:23
    based on GFMS report about gold market in 2017 the Supply is 4500 tons/year. Demand is: Jewelry 2000 tons, Retail investment 1000 tons, then rest is ETF, CB, industrial use. Point is that 65% of physical demand for Gold is price sensitive purchase from retail people mostly in China, India and other regular people around the world. If Price goes higher how these retails investors and buyers of rings/earrings will afford to buy that Gold? Is it not clear that High price will kill Demand? and scrap supply (scrap gold) is price sensitive sellers from Asia who sell at higher prices. Please explain me how prices of 2500 - 3000 - 5000 can be sustainable?? i am genuinely looking for this answer since 2017. Would appreciate response to the substance of the question. Thank you
    • TF
      Thomas F.
      12 December 2019 @ 14:06
      My take on it is that especially Chinese buyers are interested in protecting their wealth against the Government. They have very limited options to do that and gold is one of them. If Gold goes up, it´s likely because financial systems are in trouble / in crisis / unstable. I don´t see a big wave of sellers in that case. As with stocks, few people sell into rallies.
  • SG
    Steve G.
    11 December 2019 @ 23:21
    Not many "genius" deserve their title. Here is one.
    • IS
      Ivo S.
      12 December 2019 @ 03:36
      Couldn't agree more, Steve!
  • IS
    Ivo S.
    12 December 2019 @ 03:35
    Amazing interview. Subscribed to Real Vision just to hear Dr. Kaplan. Thanks for the top-quality, "golden" content.
  • db
    don b.
    12 December 2019 @ 00:24
    The big name investors they mentioned that are buying gold most likely are not buying physical because they are insiders. As long as they buy $GLD they are of no threat to the whore of Keynes.
  • MA
    Matthew A.
    11 December 2019 @ 22:49
    not the place for this comment but....can RealVision design a medium window player option, I use a 32" on a desk (guessing not the only technical analyst here) regular player is too small and the full screen is far too much, I'm sure I can manage on my end...just a kind mention. love the content, I'm a Gold Bull! (wanted to be relevant;)
  • BE
    Benjamin E.
    11 December 2019 @ 03:01
    Great interview. But I'm not buying the valuation of Novagold. It doesn't have positive cash flow. I'm not eschewing one overvalued regime in favor of PM assets that are being parasitized by supporting CEO conservation passions and digging occasional holes in the ground to make sure the gold is still there. The mine could take over 5 years to build. Someone convince me otherwise please...? :)
    • TR
      Travis R.
      11 December 2019 @ 04:27
      How is a mining company that is not yet mining supposed to have positive cash flow?
    • GP
      Geoff P.
      11 December 2019 @ 12:52
      I think he did a really good job of explaining that actually. I've been reluctant to get involved with NG simply because there is no justification for the valuation at today's gold price. However, as he clearly states, he has no intention of being a producer just for the sake of producing. He'll get the gold out and sell it when it is most profitable to do so (3-5k / oz). The economics make enormous sense at that price and NG would be significantly undervalued even if you assume a start date in 10 years discounted back to today at a double digit discount rate. So if your base case is gold >2500, then NG makes sense. If you don't think gold gets there then NG doesn't make sense. There is one caveat that he misses. He talks about mine confiscation in places where the rule of law is a novelty, but he must have forgotten, the US has a history of confiscating gold as well, and then devaluing the dollar against it significantly. There is no safety when it comes to governments and the lack of rule of law, no matter where you are.
    • AM
      Alonso M.
      11 December 2019 @ 14:47
      Market believes Barrick will buy Novagold at some point. Bristow will likely continue to fine tune Barrick's portfolio and emphasize high grade (low cost).
    • GT
      GAVIN T.
      11 December 2019 @ 15:34
      I agree with @Benjamin E. Why do we need to buy this today at @ 2bn mkt cap especially when it was trading at half of that 6 months ago? Between FID, financing of construction and market volatility, my guess is that there will be better entry opportunities.
  • MC
    Mike C.
    11 December 2019 @ 13:31
    One of golds greatest advantages is also it's greatest disadvantage which is that it's only truly without any counter party risk/no liability if you possess it in it's physical form so to own any meaningful quantity can be burdensome, from a security and logistical standpoint. Being so also allows centralized institutions such as CB and large banks to have an advantage, hoarding most of it, which is also not good. Without ever having the ability to verify its supply/stock, we fall prey to manipulation of large hoarders which could artificially "inflate"
    • MC
      Mike C.
      11 December 2019 @ 15:06
      I like gold in my portfolio but I love Bitcoin even more so. It improves on golds keys disadvantages.
  • LK
    Lisa K.
    11 December 2019 @ 06:44
    I think Dr. Kaplan makes a good point about gold mines being in potentially lawless and politically challenging places when the gold price is high. Am going to have to revisit my current investment in non North America and Australian gold mines.
    • AM
      Alonso M.
      11 December 2019 @ 14:40
      A very good point. The counter argument is to suggest North America may not be tomorrow's politically safe jurisdiction. Put differently, the market may have already discounted expropriation risk in the potentially lawless places.
  • wj
    wiktor j.
    11 December 2019 @ 14:15
    Awesome interview! What an incredible salesman. He has a stunning foresight. Looking from it at a far his strategies has been much that same as hedge eye now developed. I believe we are at quad 3 so back to commodities and energy. I am a bit stunned at some of his investors in his leopard project. Seeing as the region where the money is coming from is unstable. Will take a look at Newmont. Although I am long the pebble mine in Alaska more gold in US cant hurt.
  • GH
    Gary H.
    11 December 2019 @ 13:29
    Great investment knowledge here. Started at 45 minute mark which seemed the most worthwhile conversation.
  • VY
    Vladimir Y.
    11 December 2019 @ 13:14
    Wish the interviewer let Kaplan explain supply/demand thesis.
  • AK
    Ado K.
    10 December 2019 @ 16:00
    Great interview, I would question though that gold is the only asset that is not someone eases liability. Many store their gold with third parties to which obviously in that case makes is someones liability. I am a Bitcoiner so my preferences lay elsewhere, but for all of its faults I still can not deny that gold and its supporters have carried the sound money torch for decades. I truly wish upon them a last bull market for the ages.
    • RM
      Robert M.
      10 December 2019 @ 21:52
      That is not the type of liability he references. He is talking about someone being on the other side of the trade. Third parties that store gold are not incurring a liability on their balance sheet for storing it (nor are they booking an asset for receiving it), but are incurring a responsibility to store it.
    • AK
      Ado K.
      11 December 2019 @ 07:31
      Hallo Chris just because they are not putting it on their balance sheet does not mean that reality makes a 180 degrees turn. They have the gold, physically it is with them, therefore you ability to accesses the gold is completely dependent on their approval. Hence meaning that you do not have gold, you have a claim on the storage company to receive gold. To think otherwise is to fool oneself and display cognitive dissidence. The only way you can own gold without it being someone else liability is if you store it yourself.
  • BP
    Bryce P.
    11 December 2019 @ 04:20
    Fantastic conversation
  • dn
    david n.
    11 December 2019 @ 03:08
    One of the best natural resource interviews in RV history...hats off to Mr.Kaplan&Mr.Tapiero!
  • LK
    Lyle K.
    11 December 2019 @ 02:42
    Really good interview!
  • Gd
    Geoffroy d.
    10 December 2019 @ 08:54
    Great interview!
    • tr
      tom r.
      11 December 2019 @ 01:44
      Bravo for this exceptional interview with an exceptional human being. Very intelligent and well spoken. Sure makes me want to buy NG tomorrow.
  • PG
    P G.
    11 December 2019 @ 00:50
    Amazing interview! Dan Tapiero did an amazing job, but I can imagine the joy that Grant Williams would have to conduct this gold centric interview
  • RM
    Robert M.
    11 December 2019 @ 00:30
    The second excellent video for today. Even with the video length, certainly worth watching. Invested in Pan American Silver because of the Ross Beaty interview on RV, may now do the same for NovaGold. Like betting with people with a track record and knowledgeable on their industry/business.
  • TR
    Travis R.
    10 December 2019 @ 23:53
    IBD50 now includes 2 gold miners and 1 gold royalty company. Gold miners are leveraged to underlying and will rocket with any sustained move towards ATH of $1900 per oz.
  • TR
    Travis R.
    10 December 2019 @ 23:39
    His investment thesis easily extrapolates to NAK 100% owner of Pebble Mine. EIS Record of Decision due out summer of 2020. Same amount of gold and get the copper for free.
  • AC
    Antoine C.
    10 December 2019 @ 19:24
    so we need to help commies oh sorry I mean kurds.....sure
    • RP
      Raoul P. | Founder
      10 December 2019 @ 23:33
      This is unnecessary and not what we like to see on Real Vision.
  • OC
    Otto C.
    10 December 2019 @ 20:34
    Amazing interview!!! I am long-term bullish on Gold. However, my technical analysis tells me that we have another significant leg down before the real bull market starts.
    • OC
      Otto C.
      10 December 2019 @ 20:38
      Short-term: Long Med-term: Short Long-term: Long
  • JM
    John M.
    10 December 2019 @ 20:23
    What an amazing career Kaplan has had. He's a phenomenon!
  • JB
    Jack B.
    10 December 2019 @ 10:32
    Excellent interview
    • ls
      luke s.
      10 December 2019 @ 18:31
  • WM
    William M.
    10 December 2019 @ 18:21
    Simply exceptional!! Gold star!!
  • MK
    Mohit K.
    10 December 2019 @ 14:05
    amazing Great learnings...
  • KD
    Kaj D.
    10 December 2019 @ 11:54
    Totally interesting & inspirational. Thx Thomas, Dan & RV.