Comments
Transcript
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SSEveryone talks about PTJ, Druckenmiller, Saylor and Mass Mutual. Are there other institutionals adopting Bitcoin?
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LBThis is probably the 1.4x10^7 BTC interview about how BTC is: divisible, pristine, hard asset, nobody's liability, unincumbered, reliable, finite... I think who wanted to understand it, must have got it so far. and I completely understand that we all have a tiny axe to grind here and there (from M. Saylor to the Winklevoss), I perfectly reckon that, and it's great that RV gives space for that too (honestly appreciated) I personaly would truly appreciate to see a bit more of technical dicussion, which means less sales/PMs/entreprenuers and a bit more engineers/programmers/geeks What about BTC energy consumption? in the times of ESG, how much does it cost to run the BTC network, both in $ and energy footprint? How is the energy consumption related to potential increasing adoption?
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RMSo as I read through the comments, I see people asking about it being a reserve asset for central banks or that insurance companies will invest since bond yields are low (though bitcoin yields zero). Commonly referred to benefits have been: a) The brilliance of money tied to a payment system (though it appears to have high transaction fees like VISA/Paypal). So to realize this "payment" benefit, it has to be used as payment for things. b) The other often stated benefit is that it is limited to 21 million bitcoins versus holding currency in a fiat printing world. Therefore it is a store of value. So here are my questions: 1. If it is to be used as a payment system, 6% of the US population can own 1 bitcoin. On a worldwide basis, only .3% of the world can own 1 bitcoin. So from a payment perspective, this appears not to be a realizable benefit since only a niche group of owners can use it for transactions. 2. As far as being a reserve asset or a major asset for financial companies to invest, the market cap is $350 billion. Compared to the worldwide bond market, bitcoin is .27% of the market. How is this a large enough market for institutions to truly invest vs just playing around? Bitcoin would have to go to $333,000 to equate to 5% of the bond market, which I guess is the argument by bulls. 3. Some studies have shown that 95% of trading is faked, wash trades. Is there enough float to really support an institutional market, much less a transactional market - which is suppose to be one of the main benefits? 4. How much of bitcoin is tied up by people like Tyler and Cameron. Can't find this number, but my guess this sharply reduces the amount of bitcoin that is tradeable, which again defeats its purpose as a payment system. So for me the only benefit appears to be is it a store of value (outside of living somewhere like Venezuela and needing to get their money out of the country or being used in black markets). So if the bull play is that it goes to the moon, i.e. $333,000 and according to Winklevoss it is those under 25 who get it, is the trade that I buy today hoping someone under 30 can pay me $333,000 for it in five years (instead of buying a physical asset like a house) since the market appears to too small for major institutional investors. And if the market stays too small for institutional investors to truly play, is it just a market of primarily individual investors hoping to flip to another individual investor? What am I missing in these numbers and benefits?
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AKIs not your keys not your crypto behind the times? Possibly the dumbest f ing question of 2020, it is astonishing, if you start looking to deep into xrp and eth, even a brilliant man can completely lose his wits. For the wink twins, the reason I can not trust you, is because you can seize my coins if uncle sam tells you to. It is not a technical issue, it is an issue of the asset being unconfiscatble. I do not want the collective to be able to take my assets, regardless of if I am complaint with the law or not. When I hold my keys I am as close to a sovereign individual as possible, and honestly it is a truly amazing feeling. Become a first class Bitcoin citizen, hold your keys, run your own full node, it will literally be as liberating as the first time you got to drive a car.
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JRI think it’s cool they came back after getting screwed over by Zuck to hit it big with BTC.
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ADOver two centuries ago, Aristotle provided the seven attributes of ideal money. Yes, Bitcoin is divisible, fungible, and easy to transfer. But inherently valuable? universally recognized and desired? not really, Store of value? Makes a gold chart look brain dead. Rare? well, Bitcoin may be but not all digital currencies in aggregate. So, to me, Bitcoin etc have utility, but golds wins the competition hands down. (Of course, one can own both.)
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ABBrilliant interview. Thanks for the knowledge drop as always. These guys came up with the idea for FB and then bought millions of dollars (then) of BTC in single digits. Now they are another step ahead with NFTs and Nifty Gateway. If you think these two aren't extremely talented then you haven't got a brain. Mic drop.
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MSGreat discussion but a programmable CBDC-based economy will not work. It ignores the ground-up process of Human Action. All of the ideas for a data-driven mastermind economy ignore the brilliance of Human Action, Praxeology, and the "I, Pencil" understanding of the free market.
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NI"a lot of people cannot really get access to gold, if you think about it, whereas really anybody with an internet connection gets access to Bitcoin" Really? So they can open a Gemini account to buy bitcoin but they can't open a Goldmoney account or a brokerage account and buy GLD? How does that work?
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APRaoul was bombarded with request for these two copy paste tool bags? Wow. These guys are going to single handily reck so many retail portfolios. The level of contradiction with their thesis is unbearable to watch.
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AFSince they brought up the subject of banking the unbanked I'd love for anyone to help me understand how this is possible without a layer 2 solution which doesn't sacrifice ANY security. How is the Lightning network or any other layer 2 solution coming along? During the bullrun in 2017 we saw transaction fees of $30-40 and settlement was taking 6+ hours, in other words 2-3 weeks of income for the unbanked person they seek to help. And this was still 99% retail speculative utility and a small fraction of the world had a BTC wallet. From what I can tell it seems at this point a foregone conclusion that BTC is incapable of fulfilling its original intended use case as a currency but that's OK. I do think it holds utility in the near and medium term as a store of value which is why I'm holding it.
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GHInteresting interview thanks Raoul. The generic “bitcoin kills banks” thesis usually lacks depth. Regulated banking activity is partly credit extension within a fractional reserve system, and partly payments and other services. The latter I can see bitcoin disintermediating; the former less obviously. Unless the need for 10x+ leveraged regulated lending expertise disappears, banks should retain some utility. Unregulated bitcoin lenders might run up to 3x leverage for a while – perhaps to the bottom of the next business cycle when they’re all wiped out. But a 3x leveraged financial system is neither efficient or interesting. What institution stabilises a 10x levered bitcoin loan market is quite a fascinating topic.
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PNWould have taken these guys much more seriously if they did not argue that Gold would soon be supplanted by Bitcoin, due to Elon Musk mining gold from asteroids.,.. yes they said that... yes there is a video of them saying it.
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WDExcellent as always but is it possible to find someone who can logically argue why BTC is very overvalued and not worth investing in? All the guests are uber bulls and financially at stake. There are academic papers that show BTC does not follow Metcalfe’s Law, so is BTC just another basic commodity with supply/demand on any given day setting price?
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MHI wish they would have been asked if they are on developing an ETF as I know they have previously tried. Are they still working on one.
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DLmeh they don't seem to be too smart
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JCI had a hunch this interview would be incredible. So I saved it for Saturday morning, so I could have some coffee, relax and really pay attention. It did not disappoint!
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LFI can't find my car keys TBH. When someone says, 'not your keys, not your crypto' I want to poke them in the nose!
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JRYou would think they are digital twins for quite a while now, why haven't they figured out a system of who answers what question without stepping on each others toes ;-)) You might have to help them out next time @Raoul
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JJ😂 “can anyone you you secure your btc better than us, the answer is probably yes, very much yes” “I don’t think anyone can secure your btc better than us” 😂 your dumb we’re smart give us your value, I think I’ve heard his somewhere before from the people at the top a failing sector.
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DGInstead of shutting down the internet couldn't governments just make it illegal and impose fines or jail time?
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TEThis conversation was pretty weak
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BCThe money to be made is based simply on money flow into the limited asset and the broad assumption of long tern acceptance of bitcoin as an asset. As long as there's increasingly acceptance it's a winner. I'm reminded of Green Stamps and Top Value Stamps in the 1960s and 70s. My question remains, can bitcoin accounts be hacked. A few weeks ago there was a story about a 'silk road' account of bitcoin was was hacked by a government and $ millions taken from it. How could this happen if bitcoin accounts are safe? Another story was about how cell phone providers, the providers themselves, or maybe it was the likes of Google, were blocking emails - direct emails - that had pro-Trump links in them. I don't know much about either of these stories and the last mention is not about Trump, per se, it's about hackability and the ability to block something...like a transaction...that a cell phone provider or an email service deems unsuitable. Say the carriers computers recognized a cell phone bitcoin transaction...could it be simply blocked or rerouted. And if the answer is no...why is this the case. I would welcome informed comments on this.
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MRWhy are those two not challenged about Tether or at least asked about it. Is Tether a scam or not. Would be good to get a public statement of them
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BCRequest for Mark Hart interview on BTC + macro
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MBGreat interview, well done on getting the Winklevoss twins onto Real Vision. Just shared it with two mates who are yet to sign up to the Vision. I found this interview was a good Macro Discussion, while referring to the real useability of crypto. I feel there should be a deeper dive into their business model as a follow-up interview. Keen to understand more about Gemini, their strategy and security protocols. They already have such a good reputation as the custodian of choice.
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MDThanks Raoul, enjoyed this. The idea that the bigger institutions will only buy in once it is worth more (or deeper liquidity) is interesting...
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dfIf Bitcoin goes wrong they will be going to the moon to dig Gold, my money is on them for sure
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JDGreat piece. Wish they would've had a more in depth discussion of Bitcoin as a potential reserve asset for CBs. Hopefully this is a discussion that takes place in more detail on the RV at some point.
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ASSo how would credit and lending and that part of the money supply work with a CBDC? Who prices credit risk?
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DZThere's more "likes" in this interview then todays price of BTC.
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NR“If you purchased a cryptocurrency in 2020 or 2021 you may be entitled to compensation.”
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MRWe just saw Mass Mutual dip a toe on the water with $100M BTC purchase, a tiny fraction of their ~$235B holdings. Soon all of the insurance companies will green light BTC purchases simply because they cannot obtain bond yield to meet their future obligations and the existing fiat system cannot be saved.
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scGreat interview!
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WWOne of the best interviews on RV !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope to see them again next year!
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ECFantastic
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RCLove it. Thank you.
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JRReally, really interesting.
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SPGreat discussion. Institutions not getting involved “until Bitcoin is more expensive”just goes to show why people shouldn’t trust Wall Street with their money. It was great to learn about niftygateway.com too. There is so much potential for digital commerce on that kind of platform, the opportunities there are endless.
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BPI tweeted at them a while ago. From @stubbornnut1 to change the ui on their exchange to create a more realistic unit of btc. I'm so glad they listened. Great interview. Very exciting.
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MKLegends!!