Mentoring the Next Market Wizards

Featuring Peter Borish

Peter Borish can lay claim to predicting the 1987 stock market crash as a strategist at legendary hedge fund firm Tudor Investments. Now, as the chief strategist and trading coach at hedge fund incubator firm Quad Group, Peter has leaned on his vast experience of successes and failures to mentor a new generation of traders. Tommy Thornton teases out of him the current challenges that traders face, from the rise of technology and systematic strategies, to the rejection of the once-revered 2-and-20 hedge fund model. Markets may be changing, but trader psychology is still the beating heart that has kept Peter fascinated and engaged for decades. Filmed January 26th, 2018 in New York.

Published on
9 February, 2018
Topic
Monetary policy, Risk Management, Trading
Duration
46 minutes
Asset class
Bonds/Rates/Credit, Equities
Rating
49

Comments

  • GM

    Gavin M.

    21 3 2018 18:38

    0       0

    Absolutely phenomenal interview.

  • MM

    Michael M.

    10 3 2018 20:27

    0       0

    one of the best interviews I've seen for a real discretionary trader that's been through market hell.

  • MK

    Michael K.

    9 3 2018 20:20

    0       0

    Are these guys the full quid???

  • MA

    M A.

    22 2 2018 21:24

    0       0

    First was a treat to seeing Peter Borish and realising he was the economist with Paul T. in that infamous video and his sense of wittiness is what I expect from a full time trader like him. Thoroughly enjoyed his behaviour. This interview also came at the right time for me personally, as i've recently quit my job as a risk manager to give launching my hedge fund a shot (mostly managing my own money). Would be ecstatic to possibly work with Peter as a mentor.

  • jd

    john d.

    19 2 2018 06:46

    0       0

    Thanks Tommy and Peter. Great discussion and I got a lot from it. Cheers John.

  • gg

    gurdeep g.

    13 2 2018 09:54

    1       0

    this is what I want more of please RV fantastic

    • gg

      gurdeep g.

      13 2 2018 10:37

      0       0

      One thing I noticed here, is that the interviewer typically trying to generate a bearish response with lead questions, Peter on the other hand doesn't seem to take the bait of lead questioning. Stand up guy

  • TS

    Tyler S.

    12 2 2018 20:24

    4       2

    horrible edit. cut the music

    • RA

      Richard A.

      15 2 2018 04:44

      1       1

      Totally agree. Put the audio post production person on a tighter leash. The music continued for a full minute after Peter started talking! Great content, great interview marred by the jr high quality audio editing.

  • DM

    David M.

    12 2 2018 08:04

    2       0

    awesome interview

  • RL

    Rui L.

    11 2 2018 23:37

    10       0

    Tried to filter me some bullets... just sharing. Tks Peter, tks Tommy, tks RV.

    - If I'm not trading on my terms, don't trade. When things come together and when the pattern's there, that's when you can take the shot.

    - So again, you learn in school, the bigger the risk, the bigger the reward. Trading turns out upside down. If today's the high, and I can risk a little, then I can put a big position on as long as I have that discipline to get out.

    - More money is better than less. And you do that through a rigorous discipline process, not by pretending you're smarter than everybody else. Because you're definitely not.

    - Never minimize the pain when looking backwards from a positive outcome.

    - Young guys have all the moves, but old guys win championships.

    - The funny thing is that really good people in this business, they work so hard because they don't want to work. That's the irony.

    - Trading and success is about eliminating the distractions and the gossiping, and focusing on the discipline and the decision making. And that means risk management, and really realizing when you're wrong.

    - Every superstar in every one of their sports makes it look easy. You look at it on television, and you go, oh, it's so graceful. It's so easy. It seems like a lot of fun. It's not. It's a tremendous amount of work, what goes into the background there.

    - There's only one place to look, and that's in the mirror.

    • KC

      Keith C.

      14 2 2018 13:08

      0       0

      That's really helpful Rui. Thanks!

    • NH

      Nigel H.

      14 2 2018 13:47

      0       0

      “at the beginning of a bull market everyone wants to be a trader when they should be an investor - because they remember the recent history, and at the end they all want to be investors when they should be traders.”

    • SO

      Simon O.

      28 2 2018 13:20

      0       0

      Excellent summary - many thanks Rui

  • LK

    Lisa K.

    11 2 2018 22:29

    3       0

    Trader video is back! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-38x671CUQw

    Quality is poor but remember this is 1987.

    • SP

      Sat P.

      18 2 2018 01:49

      1       0

      Does anybody know why the Trader video was banned? I've never heard if it until now. Just about to start watching it now.....

  • NH

    Neil H.

    11 2 2018 21:10

    1       0

    Really enjoyed the interview. Always wondered why I checked the futures at night and in the morning. Thought it was just me.

  • MB

    Matthias B.

    11 2 2018 17:39

    0       0

    not the key criteria for me. so overall I walked away with differ ent perspectives

  • MB

    Matthias B.

    11 2 2018 17:37

    2       0

    I admit, reading the comments made me hesitant to watch it. But I am glad I did, the content surprised me vely. so value was added. audio and interview style can be worked on, but that is not the key

  • NS

    Nico S.

    11 2 2018 11:57

    0       1

    Although he looked like he rolled out if bed after a bender the night before, overall, a decent interview. Nice to see what the ‘lucky’ guys who worked with the legends have on their minds.

  • SZ

    SALEH Z.

    11 2 2018 06:04

    1       0

    An hour of RV is still better than 10hrs of CNBC- thats what we pay for

  • SZ

    SALEH Z.

    11 2 2018 05:58

    4       0

    Yea the last 10 min were pretty weird but I think it’s Borishs attempt at humour and TT getting more fidgety than usual - neither’s winning the gold medal at Just for Laughs festival. Good insights from Borish but a lot was just stuff we have heard before from other famous traders- frankly it shows consistency in what it takes to be a survivor in this business. TT was ok but that’s his style of conversation - I think Raoul and Grant have spoilt us a bit. Everyone’s just trying to get from point A to B like rest of us

    • HM

      Hot M.

      11 2 2018 13:45

      1       0

      Wax on, wax off, brother (you cant hear wisdom often enough).

  • DS

    David S.

    11 2 2018 04:28

    1       0

    For me this is an excellent interview. There is so much here that I watched it twice. [I appreciate that Ph D. (2/10/18) did explain why he did not learn from this interview. I wish more viewers would give context for their thumbs down.] If I were going to be a professional trader, I would appreciate a tough, experienced coach like Mr. Borish. He will make you a professional investment trader if he can, and if he cannot you are probably off knowing it. Investing other people's money is very scary. Even investing my money is scary. After this interview, I will think twice and focus when I am trading. Thanks Mr. Borish. DLS

    • JL

      Jacob L.

      12 2 2018 11:50

      1       0

      Did Ph D explain why he didn't like it? I only see the word "frivolous" and then he goes on and on about quantity vs quality. I had never heard about Peter Borish but this interview is way up there. He keeps delivering all through the interview in his unassuming style. Loved it!

    • DS

      David S.

      12 2 2018 19:38

      0       0

      I include positive and negative viewer's comments in my thinking. RVTV has a broad spectrum of viewers. In this case it did not change my opinion, but it is much better than just a "thumbs down" without comment. For me this is still an excellent interview. DLS

  • JW

    James W.

    11 2 2018 04:03

    0       0

    Peter was on Bloomberg several times this week -

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2018-02-09/quad-capital-s-borish-sees-potential-peak-in-10-year-30-year-yields-video
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2018-02-07/quad-capital-s-borish-not-convinced-of-current-inflation-video

    • SO

      Simon O.

      28 2 2018 13:38

      0       0

      Re risk Management:"a squirrel does not go hunting for acorns in the winter" - Love it. Where does he get these quotes from?

  • JW

    James W.

    11 2 2018 03:31

    2       0

    This is a welcome return to a useful and relevant segment, and it's a great interview. However - can you please cool it with the jarring sound effects? It's bad enough to endure it through the introductions, but to continue it into the interviews is inexcusable. It would be sensible to devote more attention to the sound in the interview itself, as Tommy's volume is about half that of Peter's in this interview.

  • DP

    David P.

    11 2 2018 02:10

    1       0

    I'm gonna be cheeky here, but fact that this interviews has been SO appreciated by everyone despite Mister Borish suggesting that he believes Obama's policies made more sense than Trump's, on Real Vision, shows the incredible quality of this interview.
    Like Jim Rogers, it is that old school wisdom that never gets old, about hard work and knowing history. Never gets old, so much to take from this interview. Thanks to the both of you.

  • RA

    Robert A.

    11 2 2018 00:54

    4       1

    I thought Tom did another excellent job. Handling this guy was a LOT harder than it looked, IMO. Tom got hit with a “full load of ‘facetious’” at one point and although not recognizing it soldiered on! This guy is the real deal and a “lapful” to interview—again, great job Tom and thanks.

  • PB

    Pieter B.

    10 2 2018 19:14

    4       1

    @ thomas: please keep it up! You are doing a fantastic job interviewing very interesting people!

  • PB

    Pieter B.

    10 2 2018 18:49

    1       1

    Another great interview! Thanks a lot for both your time!

  • CM

    C M.

    10 2 2018 17:33

    5       1

    Excellent interview with Borish. I respect Tommy as an investor and follow him on Twitter, but have to agree that his interviewing technique can be strengthened. But overall, good segment.

  • MB

    Michael B.

    10 2 2018 10:23

    3       0

    This was amazing, after seeing Trader years ago I wondered what happened to Peter Borish.

  • IC

    Ibrahim C.

    10 2 2018 05:15

    0       0

    Really exceptional 👌🏻👏🏻

  • GG

    Glenn G.

    10 2 2018 05:10

    5       2

    A very entertaining interview from a variety of angles. "Dad, I'm not buying a 115 call - might buy a 95 / 105 spread - we have to plan for the future"

  • PD

    Ph D.

    10 2 2018 04:34

    6       24

    Thank you for the effort, but this is a low-quality interview in my humble opinion...I would rather see one top-notch interview published per month relative to frivolous ones like this one multiple times a week (aka quality over quantity). Top-notch examples published before: David Salem interviewing Joshua Friedman; Michael Green interviewing Ben Melkman, Alex Gurevich and Jeffrey Gundlach (not sure why that Gundlach interview was deleted by the way; only Grant Williams' Gundlach interview is present, which is also an excellent one); James Grant interviewing Jim Chanos...see a pattern? both the interviewer and the interviewee are original thinkers and / or very high-caliber investment professionals which paves the path to the interviewer asking thoughtful questions (because he knows what he is talking about exceptionally well) and the interviewee providing insightful / thoughtful answers (because he has mastered his craft and he is still highly relevant)...I would also add the Todd Edgar interview to the list (no interviewer there)...You may agree or disagree with them, yet the original thought processes are bright as sun...This interview, at best, pales relative to the high-caliber ones I mentioned...RV, please more quality and less quantity...Thank you.

    • EF

      Eric F.

      10 2 2018 11:23

      14       2

      Too harsh criticism that seems unmerited to me. Agree that interviews you highlight stand out. Unreasonable and unrealistic to expect that all the time.

    • WM

      William M.

      10 2 2018 15:07

      11       0

      Sorry Phd I can't agree. Some interviews are just great and others like this one are good. Very few interviews on RVT are poor quality, I think I have down voted about 4 in 3 years. This had great info from a consummate professional.

    • PD

      Ph D.

      10 2 2018 15:46

      1       9

      Eric, thanks for agreeing with me about the quality of the interviews I pointed out. Yes, it is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect that high-quality "all the time", yet if you pay attention to my comment, my expectation was not "all the time", I said "once a month" (okay, if too hard, once in every two months) high-quality interviews as opposed to fluffy ones like this twice a week...More importantly, my point was about quality over quantity. Why do you think it is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect thoughtful / insightful dialogue with top-notch investors 6-10 times a year? Interviews, which leave you with more relevant questions than cookie-cutter answers, interviews which make you think...Yet, who am I to judge the quality? I am just a limo driver, it is unreasonable for me to expect a high bar for quality from the masses of "professionals" since unlike the majority, I don't have a superb understanding of capital structure, the interaction and the linkages among moving pieces, good assessment of consensus expectations, and professional real life experience...So, I am at fault for not being able to spot a great dialogue between two independent thinkers because I don't know what independent thought process is, I don't have much curiosity, I have zero investment process, and in result zero understanding of risk versus reward asymmetry...But, hey, who needs those things, can't anyone watch the documentary Trader, or the movie The Big Short, listen to what is presented to them in the headlines without questioning and then open a trade account and trade?...Why do you need to go through the hoops of developing your own differentiated view by a regimented and rigorous investment process and then compare it to consensus expectations to see if there is a gap, and think about catalysts to close the gap...Isn't anyone entitled to having a view without having the foundations and developing an understanding how things work?...Already too many unnecessary questions, this is supposed to be easy, anyone can open a trading account, just like me. So I just look at S&P futures first thing in the morning, trade my TD account before driving my limo:)

    • RD

      Ron D.

      10 2 2018 15:50

      4       0

      While I agree that this was more in the guilty pleasure rather then game changing level - I disagree with your conclusion. At RV, lt quantity is what will create quality. You simply dont know beforehand, whether an interview will be great or not.

      Ensuring a base standard of quality and then going from there, landing the occasional greatness is whats worth striving for and I am happy for that.

      Meanwhile there is always something you can learn. If its not directly from the content of the video, then perhaps through reflection on yourself.

    • TK

      Tanay K.

      10 2 2018 16:56

      3       0

      I learned a lot from this interview and thought it was one of the better videos, especially on the principles of trading versus just analysis of current macro themes.

      Also, I would rather see many interviews per week rather than just a few 'high-quality' ones per month, as you learn something different each time. Different things appeal to different viewers.

    • EF

      Eric F.

      10 2 2018 21:07

      2       0

      You’re entitled to your opinion as I am mine. We at least get what you are asking for in 2 top quality interviews a month (more in my opinion). I think RV has a perfect balance in publishing 3 times a week. If you don’t like the other content then just simply don’t watch it, but don’t deny others it.

    • JW

      James W.

      11 2 2018 09:22

      3       2

      I've also been critical of RV recently. I'm interested in timely and relevant analysis and perspective for consideration and direct application. Instead RV has been trending more towards "econotainment" and television styled hype and production qualities, bombarding us incessantly with noisy sound effects (this creates excitement!)... it's a bleeding pain in the ass. We've also been getting a good deal of re-hash (Keen, Chanos, this past week) which has been worked over hard before arriving here, and interviews that start with 10-15 minutes of insider yak about seemingly everything from the subject's childhood on up to who knows who, etc. My time and attention demand usable work. There are a lot of very seasoned analysts out there with deep knowledge and insight that we could benefit from. RV needs to widen its circle.

  • MM

    Michael M.

    10 2 2018 03:21

    3       0

    The real deal. Excellent. Thanks

  • RZ

    RICK Z.

    10 2 2018 03:06

    6       0

    I loved his , kind of qasi crack at the beginning about how Powell is an attorney and not economist. It sounded as if he was trying to say Powel didn’t know what he was doing because he wasn’t economist?? - LOL I can only hope I got this wrong because we all know that the gas bag economists atvyhe Fed and the other central Banksters -put it in this unavoidable Debt death spiral - The Keynesian asset inflation without income. It’s so distorted, I’m not quite sure how this system has survived this long.anyway , But the gentleman sounds like he understands trading, but really when it comes to the macro picture, maybe he should take a backseat

    • EF

      Eric F.

      10 2 2018 11:26

      7       0

      Agree Rick, I thought exactly the same. Can’t knock Powell for not being an economist when it’s actually those same economists with their inflexible views and models that have engineered the current mess. I count that as a positive for him.

  • KL

    Kathlyn L.

    10 2 2018 02:35

    5       2

    Unacceptable audio... Love Peter Borish

    • EF

      Eric F.

      10 2 2018 11:27

      2       0

      I thought the audio was off in a few places. I actually just download the audio, so this would’ve been more obvious to me.

    • JW

      James W.

      11 2 2018 09:26

      1       1

      Audio sucked. Borish's mic was hot and bassy, TT's was nearly on mute at times.

  • CG

    Chase G.

    10 2 2018 01:53

    3       0

    Awesome conversation between two people I respect. Thanks Tommy, Peter, and RV.

  • SS

    Swagotom S.

    9 2 2018 22:24

    5       1

    Tommy Thornton is an excellent listener.

  • MG

    Mohamed G.

    9 2 2018 15:58

    8       0

    So much wisdom I’ll have to watch this a second time. RV, anyway we can have a Jim Grant interview with Paul Tudor Jones?

  • DC

    Douglas C.

    9 2 2018 14:58

    6       0

    One of my favorite interviews on RealVision. If you're a trader and you've survived, you get it. Thanks

  • AG

    Amir G.

    9 2 2018 13:06

    41       17

    Since we pay with this service, we should be entitled to expressing our unbiased opinion. So I’m going to speak frankly on this that Thomas Thornton just doesn’t intrigue me as a very confident interviewer. He’s nervous and it’s hard to follow his comments at times.

    • DK

      Damian K.

      9 2 2018 14:52

      10       1

      second that

    • GS

      George S.

      9 2 2018 17:24

      14       1

      It's really hard to be both a good investor/trader and a decent interviewer. So, it's a trade-off.

    • EF

      Eric F.

      9 2 2018 17:41

      15       1

      You know what, I initially wanted to say give him time, and cut him some slack, but I actually think you’re right. On either side of the camera TT doesn’t come across naturally. He could get better or this could simply have been a bad call by both RV and TT. I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings but I think this is fair you bring this up. I agree with George though, Grant and Raoul make it look easy, but it’s not.

    • JL

      Jim L.

      9 2 2018 19:41

      1       0

      Agreed

    • AH

      Andreas H.

      9 2 2018 19:43

      21       2

      So what, I do not care at all if he is nervous, we should be thankful for the strengths in people! I like this interview!!! I like Thomas Thornton, great Questions, good stuff!

    • JV

      James V.

      9 2 2018 21:15

      11       1

      Look, Tommy seems like a very nice guy whom I wouldn't mind having drinks with, but Amir is right. He's just not an engaging interviewer. A good interviewer keeps a conversation going, seamlessly moving from topic to topic while probing his guest for deeper insight. Tommy hesitates while posing his questions and switches topics in a way that makes his questions seem uncorrelated. Peter obviously has a tremendous amount of wisdom and experience which I feel could have been drawn out to reveal further and deeper insights by a more accomplished interviewer.

    • LS

      Lou S.

      9 2 2018 23:51

      8       0

      Honestly, I think there is more to it than you can see! They don't seem to have the same take on several issues or their personalities and may have already disapproved on some things... Best example is 10 mins before the end of the video. Thomas Thornton pays great attention on how he mentions things and has his reasons.

    • TE

      Tito E.

      10 2 2018 08:59

      6       0

      He's knowledgable and diversity of interviewer is as important as that of interviewees

    • RL

      Rui L.

      10 2 2018 12:18

      13       0

      Hi A, I agree there are negatives on having a fund manager doing the role as interviewer, it's not natural to them surely and I have to admire all participants on even accepting trying to do it with each best will. Now, think the "opposite", do you prefer nice looking, very articulate, no real experience talking-heads, reading what someone wrote for him, as interviewer ? Point is, yes of course there are negatives on this format. Still I prefer to thank those who willingly get out of their comfort zone and give it a shot.

    • WM

      William M.

      10 2 2018 15:20

      3       0

      Agree Tommy is not a natural interviewer but he is knowledgable. It was ok.

    • JW

      James W.

      11 2 2018 09:01

      5       0

      I was critical of TT's first interview - that with Dean Curnett - because he was unprepared and completely failed to take advantage of Curnutt's expertise in the subject of vol. But I thought TT did a great job in this interview, and is worth developing. His writing over time has uncovered valuable perceptual and experiential perspective. His evident struggle at times to express himself I empathize very strongly with, and as it's belied by an ability to express himself clearly and directly in writing, I think there is talent yet to be uncovered here, which I hope to benefit from.

    • JW

      James W.

      11 2 2018 09:25

      1       0

      That all said, the interviewer should be somewhat matched to the subject, so that should be kept in consideration.

    • MM

      Michael M.

      10 3 2018 19:54

      1       0

      Agree

  • HA

    Hammad A.

    9 2 2018 11:33

    1       0

    How to send resume?

  • PU

    Peter U.

    9 2 2018 10:53

    8       0

    Love his bear tie . . . look closely

    • GG

      Glenn G.

      10 2 2018 04:59

      1       0

      Guess I need a 4K TV !

  • PU

    Peter U.

    9 2 2018 10:31

    1       0

    excellent!!

    • PB

      Peter B.

      10 2 2018 15:52

      2       0

      One of the most brilliant men on Wall Street who is as knowledgeable about the market than most.