Protectionism and Red Velvet Cake

Published on
16 May, 2018
Bitcoin, Macro, Geopolitics
23 minutes
Asset class

Protectionism and Red Velvet Cake

Featuring Justine Underhill, Alex Rosenberg, Roger Hirst

In this inaugural episode of “The Knock-On Effect,” Justine and Roger try to convince Alex that a U.S. crackdown on free trade could lead American red velvet cakes to turn pink. Yes, really. Plus, Alex takes issue with Charlie Munger’s shocking bitcoin comparison. Filmed on May 10, 2018 in New York.

Published on
16 May, 2018
Bitcoin, Macro, Geopolitics
23 minutes
Asset class


  • PG

    Peter G.

    4 10 2018 18:50

    0       0

    I hate to pile on, but just wanted to add my $0.02. I am a 30 yo retail investor. I found out about RealVision through the AIF podcast. I wanted to learn more about finance/business and picked AIF and the Investors podcast because they were top-rated on iTunes. I really enjoyed them, especially how they (both) interviewed really interesting individuals and broadened my understanding of how the world works. I am worried with the replacement of AIF with this. I listened to the first two in this series, then discontinued the podcast. I decided to subscribe to RV (wouldn't have came though if the paywall was still $500 though) after hearing that there was a Drunkenmiller interview (I follow GW and RP on twitter). So far I am happy with the content and will likely stay. That being said, had it not been for the highly rated podcast, for the wonderful interviews on AIF, i would never had stayed with it, and I wouldn't be a paying customer now. Raoul, I understand the concern with having good content outside the paywall, but I believe you will get more customers in the end if you tease them with GREAT free content. Having good free content can be a better money generator. Its why free mobile and video games are the biggest revenue producers over longer periods and why games with high paywalls (think mario run) are doomed for failure. The podcast drew me in, and I think there are a lot of regular old retail guys like me that would love to join if they knew about it, and could experience a taste of the great stuff for free. Unfortunately, TKOE isn't the great stuff.

  • RK

    Roger K.

    26 7 2018 09:35

    0       0

    Can you get into the discussion , please don't waste time!

  • JJ

    JJ J.

    28 5 2018 12:36

    0       0

    'NPR planet money' is possibly closer to what you could aspire tkoe to be. It's actually what got me interested in finance and investing as when it launched around the same time as the gfc, it did a fantastic job of taking complex financial products, topics and economic concepts and making them easy to understand while up skilling the listeners knowledge base. I stopped listening to the podcast when they moved off from CDO's, RMBS and the like and covered more opaque topics such as red velvet cupcakes... lol... in all fairness the RV team does an amazing job and I'm sure you've earned a pass for this one. But consider AIF that goes for just 20-30mins with a 10-20min chat with an expert covering some topic... as I listening to tkoe is not something that would inspire me to move inside the paywall.

  • SL

    Shanan L.

    28 5 2018 02:02

    6       0

    I was appalled when I listened to the podcast that replaced Adventures in Finance. I forced myself to listen to the entire podcast. I can't even image watching a video of that unintelligent discussion, if you can even call it that. Seeing the first 15 seconds on TKOE episode 2 and I realized its actually worse watching the podcast! I read a lot of comments and Raoul's response and I have to say Raoul is right regarding targeting a "different, wider audience", but I'm hesitant to believe the audience targeted (those willingly listening/consuming) by such discussions would ever be willing to pay for RV TV. I appreciate what Raoul and Grant and the others are doing at RV TV, but there has to be some way to filter or categorize the content not just by topic and/or asset class, but by sophistication or experience level. I became a partner at RV because I finally found intelligent life on this planet and I was blown away by a number of interviews. What appears to have happened here is AIF (a graduate level class) was replaced with a freshman year 101 introductory class and that caught RV partners and AIF listeners completely off-guard given their level of sophistication.
    Best of luck fixing TKOE (~your gonna need it~).

  • DW

    David W.

    22 5 2018 05:39

    9       0

    Great title and great build-up but oh so disappointing! This is no substitute for 'Adventures in Finance' and there is certainly no substitute for Grant's humour and presentational skills. Will try the next one as a podcast as the video adds nothing to the conversation.

  • ZY

    ZHENG Y.

    21 5 2018 16:04

    1       0

    I will try to watch the next two episodes.
    The dialogue flow is a bit odd to me. (maybe it is still new)
    Rooms for improvement.

  • RP

    Raoul P.

    20 5 2018 11:50

    24       1

    I know you all miss Adventures in Finance and this is very different. AIF was a truly excellent podcast, with the masterful Grant Williams, but as a business it was actually too good to have outside the paywall. Many people (many tens of thousands) listened in but never moved across to Real Vision TV because they got so much from the podcast. It was an own goal. It satiated too many needs in non-subscribers.

    Could we re-launch it as a podcast-style TV program in the future, behind the paywall? Yes. Its definitely worth considering and would be a fresher take and an accretive program to our arsenal. Grant is just so damned good at that style of show (as he is at deep interviews). We just need a bit of time. We are running at full-tilt and are pushed to our limits. But I do like that idea, if we can figure out a trick that allows Grant to film it from anywhere, as he travels. Feedback on that appreciated as ever.

    The Knock on Effect is aimed at a different, wider audience. People who are less familiar with the financial world. They need to be engaged and to realise that finance isn't some opaque dark art, but the everyday life around us. If we stand by our mission to democratize financial information then we cant just provide specialist content to those more knowledgeable. That is elitist. Real Vision TV already does deep knoweldge exceptionally well. But in order to make Real Vision, and the world of finance, more accessible we have to allow others with less knowledge in, not making just exclusive. That would be wrong.

    Thus, we are adding lots of new series; some deep, insightful, long-form and informationally dense but we are also adding short-form, education, immesrive storytelling and also different styles of engaging content to help those with less knowledge. Everyone has to develop a love of finance, economics and markets from some seed point. We need to offer those seed points.

    I remember trying to learn golf when I was young and being tutted at by more serious golfers when I hooked, sliced and slashed off the tee. People would mutter that I shouldn't be on the course. I was slowing them down. I eventually told them to fuck off and gave up golf. If we cant be allowed to learn in our own way, then how do we attract new people into our world? This is why golf is dying as a sport amongst the young, because it tended to favour those who have some existing ability or talent and was rigid in its approach. I had none of the talent or ability and was made to feel very unwelcome. I never plated golf again.

    Real Vision will still knock the ball out of the park with the type of programming you know and love us for. It is the bedrock of what we do. We are just adding more on top. Lots more. The point is, you shouldn't feel the need to watch everything, just the things that are of value to you, or addresses things at your knowledge level. After all, we don't watch everything on Netflix, just the things that appeal to us. It will take a while (and a change to how we organize content on the home page) for people to become more familiar with having a lot more content to choose from. The point is we want to offer choice, not just three or five videos a week. We want the broadest, deepest financial and business programming that sets the benchmark. We want to push boundaries is every aspect of what we do, trying new styles that lead the industry. If we want to thrive as a business we need to offer that choice.

    With regards to The Knock on Effect, we know it isn't right yet. It doesn't yet meet our aspirations, but we use a lean (MVP, listen, test, iterate, improve) approach to new product launches that gives us speed, agility and a fearlessness to test new ideas (if we didnt test new ideas, RV would never exist!) and most importantly it gives us a chance to improve, always.

    But, this program may not be for you. We totally understand. But if we get the right balance, it will be right for those with a deep knowledge; producing humour, a quirky take and an aha! moment that fills in knowledge and understanding but yet still allows the non-technical to understand and engage. That is our aspiration and we will keep working towards that.

    We are here to push every boundary we can. We created a revolution. It is in our very DNA.

  • JB

    Jason B.

    20 5 2018 07:20

    3       2

    I thought Real Vision TV was planning on hiring a new Adventures in Finance podcast host because Grant Williams was too busy? Instead of a new host on Adventures in Finance, we get this. Ugh!

  • BO

    Bob O.

    20 5 2018 04:16

    1       0

    I'm just about finished fermenting my first Shiraz vintage. No crushed bugs were used to colour the wine.

  • CM

    C M.

    19 5 2018 15:40

    7       3

    This is awful. Waste of time to watch.

  • WP

    William P.

    19 5 2018 15:17

    11       0

    Bring back Adventures in Finance, this is fluff!

  • MJ

    Manish J.

    19 5 2018 04:17

    3       0

    No meat, no potatoes, only fillers

  • DW

    Denton W.

    18 5 2018 13:38

    18       0

    Why is this also the RV podcast as well now? Adventures in Finance was top notch quality. Huge downgrade.

  • AP

    A P.

    18 5 2018 10:12

    4       1

    NO CONTENT - just blurb! No offence to the presenters but this format has intellectually zero sophistication.

  • SJ

    Steven J.

    18 5 2018 07:43

    21       0

    Loved Adventures in Finance - great podcast I could listen to in the car while commuting and learn something intelligent on the way to/from the office. Saddened to see the podcast replaced with this. Couldn't get past about minute 8 or 10 before being annoyed enough to turn it off.

  • MU

    Mo U.

    18 5 2018 03:35

    24       0

    I miss Adventures in FInance

  • GF

    Gordon F.

    17 5 2018 18:29

    15       0

    Some 30+ years ago there was a PBS series called "Connections" which looked historically at how one thing can lead to another. I would recommend that the producers of Knock-on Effects go back and review that series, as it was very well done (at least as I remember it).
    I agree with many of the previous comments that this particular episode was not up to what I consider the RV standard, but I also see potential in the format. They either need to improve it or drop it. Having said that, we are under no obligation to watch everything RV produces, nor do I have the time to do so if it becomes a full-fledged channel. RV itself is an experiment, and that means that some of their efforts are not going to work out. I am still excited to be a subscriber, and eager to see what else they may come up with.

  • GL

    Guillaume L.

    17 5 2018 18:25

    8       2

    Please call this new series CringeVision.

  • BB

    Brian B.

    17 5 2018 14:47

    12       0

    Very sorry but this feels like a JV version of NPR’s Planet Money. Please please give me the RV I signed up for back at the beginning. I like Planet Money. It’s a fun show, but it’s not what I was looking for when I decided to become a “Partner” with RV a couple of years ago.

  • TR

    Todd R.

    17 5 2018 14:23

    1       9

    Loved it!

  • CY

    C Y.

    17 5 2018 13:39

    3       1

    I like this because sometimes you need a divergence from the normal heavy lifting. But it needs to be shorter.

  • SN

    Seth N.

    17 5 2018 12:31

    3       1

    I agree with most of the rest of the comments. While it may not speak well for my attention span anymore after 5 minutes in they still hadn't said anything of any import. Too slow, too cute.

  • BT

    Brian T.

    17 5 2018 12:26

    3       0

    Unable to see the light in this conversation.

  • SL

    Stephen L.

    17 5 2018 11:58

    3       0

    I actually enjoyed this segment but videocasting a podcast kind of took away from it IMO.

  • PD

    Pat D.

    17 5 2018 10:59

    7       0

    While I am fond of Justine and the energy she brings to an interview, this is not Real Vision as I understand it. If I wanted light entertainment I would listen to a Radio talkback show or similar.

  • ML

    Mark L.

    17 5 2018 10:01

    11       0

    Sorry RV. Most of the prior comments say it all. Love you guys but there is not enough meat in these 22 minutes. Trying new formats is great but this one does not cut it for me. I like RV because I get to hear interesting, intelligent people provide their well thought out views in an uncluttered interview or other type of piece. Most of your long-form interview style pieces I could have go on longer. This one, I forced myself finish (on high speed)...just so I could write this review. And...are the headphones really required.

  • PV

    Peter V.

    17 5 2018 09:01

    6       0

    content and especially presentation makes me wonder whether this is a new version of Muppet Show. I prefer the original one which was entertaining.
    Please become real again! I struggled to listen to the end.

  • JM

    James M.

    17 5 2018 07:53

    9       0

    Not what I signed up for. The original content from RVTV captured the imagination of its subscribers for a reason. This isn't it for me. Seems to follow the stereotypical corporate model and ultimately will end up producing another Bloomberg CNBC product IMO. $180? (Maybe not such a good idea)

  • TR

    Theodore R.

    17 5 2018 07:35

    11       0

    Stopped listening at min 10 or so. Either this sort of videos are out OR perhaps you could put together two types of RV. RV Pro (founding member type of content) and RV Light (to include this and possibly the Trader videos ...don’t have a particular issue w/ latter but perhaps more appealing to a different audience). RV Pro could include access to RV Light, however subscribers would access it ‘voluntarily’, fully cognizant of consequences. Not a marketing or media expert while fully supportive of increasing RV’s appeal and audience with the positive knock on effect on revenues (RV investor bias here). Segmentation could keep subscribers at peace and possibly the Light/Netflix type of product could eventually get a lot of subscribers to eventually upgrade and pay more for the Pro version (in line with accessing a wider market and offering better financial education to wider audience base). I would hate to see the old Pro customer base eventually considering discontinuing their subscriptions. Time is precious and segmentation can help. Thanks for the opportunity to express my view.

  • PN

    Philip N.

    17 5 2018 06:41

    11       1

    Please don't do this again.

  • CF

    Cause F.

    17 5 2018 05:59

    2       0

    A poor video by RV standards. Humor is okay, but the format and execution here is not. The Peru-India free trade agreement is the only take-way for the first 10 minutes or so. Not worth the time.

  • SS

    Steve S.

    17 5 2018 03:24

    21       1

    Fact - This is the worst video in real vision history.

  • CB

    C B.

    17 5 2018 02:40

    3       0

    There isn’t anything to feel bad about here, however the format was missing an interesting, cohesive narrative. Also Alex talking while professor was talking seemed discourteous (like a dude trying to impress a girl at the expense of showing respect to the guest). This weekly, recurring frequency provides an opportunity to give some markets based situational awareness to the audience and that was absent. I think my major disappointment stemmed from the perception that none of these speakers knew anything about markets. The audio quality and video quality were high. I’d watch again if these adjustments were made. RV for life!!

  • DR

    Dick R.

    17 5 2018 02:19

    12       0

    When the on-camera personalities are having more fun than the viewers, it's time to fold.

    Change is fine. Sandbox is not.

  • BP

    Bryce P.

    17 5 2018 01:30

    9       0

    I realize it's only the first show but it would have been much better to keep the Adventures in Finance podcast how it was than do this.

  • VV

    Vanessa V.

    17 5 2018 00:40

    7       7

    RV is changing and obviously targeting a wider audience in its quest to overthrow mainstream financial media. Which means old RV subscribers need to adapt to this change. The tagline "Netflix for traders" says it all. Netflix subscribers don't watch everything on Netfllix, they choose what they want to view. RV subscribers now need to do the same - filter out what you don't enjoy. If you only enjoyed the old style videos then watch those (they are still around) and skip the rest. As a coach I would say to those complaining, consider taking a moment to reflect on your reaction to change. How does this show up in your trading or investing? Are you open to changing your views or approach as and when needed? Whilst this video wasn't for me, I appreciate what RV is trying to do and I wish them all the success they deserve.

  • ER

    Eric R.

    17 5 2018 00:31

    10       0

    This video is my short for tomorrow’s podcast. Getting nervous about going long tomorrow’s podcast.

  • DR

    Daniel R.

    16 5 2018 23:52

    8       0

    It's good to experiment. This is one that doesn't work in its current form. Not sure if it can be salvaged. Anyway, keep innovating please.

  • AP

    Adil P.

    16 5 2018 23:23

    6       0

    It was hard to listen. Too much noise. I see what they are trying to do. But entertainment portion way too much thus crating noise.

  • DJ

    Dhananjay J.

    16 5 2018 23:17

    26       0

    Real Vision must not underestimate its viewers. We want to pay for the content. Stop the fancy packaging, I hate to see you waste money like this.

  • DF

    Doug F.

    16 5 2018 23:06

    18       0

    I'm afraid I agree with John P. We all have a limited amount of time each day to digest incisive, meaningful content which RV has been great at producing. In my view this 22 minutes falls into the 'noise' category of financial commentary and it's not up to RV's usual high standards. I also agree less is more when it comes to content, ideas and analysis. I don't need an email (or more) from RV in my Inbox every day - I think you dilute the value of the core principles of what RV has created - interviews with high caliber individuals who deliver great insight into an array of topics. Very interested in the interviews with key thought leaders, not this sort of Fox News output.

  • JP

    Jeff P.

    16 5 2018 22:17

    32       3

    This is a waste of time.
    In fact, I would say that RealVision is producing TOO MUCH stuff.
    I would rather receive 1-2 meaningful emails A WEEK than 1-2 emails A DAY.
    While I love some the the content, I am finding the volume of stuff being sent annoying.

  • HH

    Heath H.

    16 5 2018 22:16

    1       2

    I like this better than RV trader, but not nearly as much as the classic long interviews.

  • JL

    James L.

    16 5 2018 21:51

    6       0

    No thank you.

  • CM

    Chris M.

    16 5 2018 21:32

    0       0

    I thought y'all were gonna have real vision viewers on to figure out the trade. Incorporating your user base to make more of a connection to community of thinkers. I appreciate learning new things everyday. I learned something today. Value of that knowledge varies from person to person and what they are willing to pay for it. Time, currency, emotional value... I personally found value, but after watching, chose not to again unless, viewers are incorporated. But that is as simple as not clicking on the link, and not complaining, but thats just me.. Trade well y'all !!!

    Chris M

  • RH

    Rob H.

    16 5 2018 21:21

    11       0

    I understand trying out new ideas but more is not always better. With the amount of noise out there now, I don't need more to decipher through. I don't like the trade ideas mixed in with the other video either, just more noise to me.

  • NJ

    Namit J.

    16 5 2018 21:11

    25       0

    @RV: Strategically, if you try to serve everyone, you will serve no one!

  • SS

    Stefan S.

    16 5 2018 20:45

    10       2

    I'm all for experimentation, but I think this experiment failed, and shouldn't been repeated.

  • MT

    Michael T.

    16 5 2018 20:14

    10       0

    I appreciate the effort but this is not what I'm here for. Waste of 20 Minutes and yes, I can spot a fake laugh...

  • JC

    Justin C.

    16 5 2018 19:38

    23       1

    I appreciate the price drop to 180 dollars, but if it means more content like this, I'd prefer it had just dropped back to the 360 dollar price where I originally signed up at. This piece seemed like a shot at entertainment, and while I have found the higher quality videos on RV to be entertaining, thats not why I'm here; I'm here because they are also highly educational and very well produced. This video only told us three things, Peru produces red dye from bugs (don't care), very old rich people don't like bitcoin (duh), and the economies of the world are interconnected (everyone here knows this). I found Adventures in Finance to be much better and most of us would probably prefer that over this.

  • RM

    Russell M.

    16 5 2018 19:27

    17       0

    I would add that Justine is a good interviewer in the RV Trader series. Give her more serious interview work.

  • IO

    Igor O.

    16 5 2018 19:19

    3       0

    I like it.
    But next time maybe straight to the point? What is knock on effects of:
    Higher rates
    Higher dollar
    Higher oil

  • WG

    Wade G.

    16 5 2018 19:14

    3       0

    I appreciate trying to be creative to derive new formats, but this was a big miss for me. If u stick with it, I might try another to see if it can be improved, but I'm not hopeful. Further, the Munger quote and discussion was just a bad choice of content. Munger makes a startling, non-nonsensical remark, and u feature it for several minutes. And honestly, I zoned out of that discussion, because I had not gotten any positive reinforcement yet in the video for tuning in... but I think your crew missed the point. Munger seemed to bizarrely have two points: one, bitcoin is in a bubble (fine), and two, bitcoin, regardless of price is immoral/repugnant. Now that latter point might be worth discussing, intelligently, and in a serious format. I'd guess Munger's problem w/ bitcoin isn't that it consumes electricity and other resources, but that it represents a rejection of traditional (parasitic) banking and fiat, centrally controlled (manipulated) money. That's worth discussing, but I'm not sure this format could do it justice. My two cents, from a pretty loyal fan.

  • RM

    Russell M.

    16 5 2018 19:11

    4       1

    I would recommend not printing your realvision brand logo on toilet paper. Its not brand enhancing.

  • lD

    lance D.

    16 5 2018 19:03

    3       1

    Well i enjoyed it, hope it stays... the only thing that i didn't like was when the professor spoke the camera went onto that dodgy picture/photo frame.. maybe its just me i am easily distracted so if that picture frame/photo could go that will be great the last thing i need is distractions in this game... by the way (i feel pretty stupid for asking this) was that picture of the actual bloke speaking? if not don't laugh to hard at me please.
    any way like i said i enjoyed this

  • FS

    Frank S.

    16 5 2018 17:28

    12       0

    Certainly a different approach. Kind of reminds me of "sports talk" radio.
    I have no complaints about a light-hearted approach to economic topics. Particularly if you (RealVision) is going for a broader, less sophisticated audience. Even NPR occasionally has some segments which make their point(s) in a more light-hearted manner.
    Realizing that this is a work-in-progress, two points insofar as delivery:
    (1) if you have to explain a joke, it's not funny
    (2) perhaps editing could reduce some of the "prefacing" to make the final cut more streamlined.
    All in all, room for improvement, but perhaps worthwhile for broader release.
    As for some of the comments below, Lighten Up!
    If you don't like this particular format, don't watch it.

  • CE

    Christopher E.

    16 5 2018 16:38

    7       1

    This was a frivolous approach to what could have been an interesting - if peripheral - subject. The project needs a radical rethink - and some audio control to combat the contrasting extremes of penetratingly shrill tones with a mature male baritone.

  • YB

    Yuriy B.

    16 5 2018 15:56

    1       4

    I like the deep dive into the topic and the explanation of "carmine". I could see why this might not be the cup of tea for some RV viewers, but I learned something from this. And I appreciate the knowledge. However, the point about bitcoin was inane. By "shorting baby brains," you're providing liquidity to an insane and immoral market. Munger is (as always) right, you're just dead wrong.

  • MC

    Minum C.

    16 5 2018 15:45

    12       1

    Real Vision's current strategy would make an interesting case study. What is its target market? How big is this market? What is the geographic scope of its market and who is the competition? Does this video attempt to satiate the demands of RV's current target market or is it an attempt to expand/change its target market? Recent changes with pricing and content suggest a major shift in RV's strategy, and the abruptness with which this has been delivered may not be favourably received. Being stuck in the middle strategically is unlikely to be a recipe for high subscriber renewal rates.

  • dj

    daniel j.

    16 5 2018 15:44

    6       2

    Wow this was so bad, so much jumping around and they had so much trouble sticking to the subjeckt.

  • SD

    Sebastien D.

    16 5 2018 14:49

    3       0

    The concept interesting, thanks for trying new things.
    A bit hard to follow the causal chat format but I'm non native English speaker.

  • SS

    Steve S.

    16 5 2018 14:29

    10       3

    Excuse me for being blunt, but this was a car wreck.

  • JW

    Joel W.

    16 5 2018 14:22

    7       0

    I agree with Scott W. One caveat is that the opportunity cost of producing this show may have an effect on the other programming. On the other hand, if the new show adds a lot of value it could end up enhancing the established content. I’m lukewarm about this inaugural episode, but keeping an open mind to see how it evolves.

  • SW

    Scott W.

    16 5 2018 13:01

    11       0

    Some harsh criticism below to which I would suggest that provided this is additive (i.e. we won't see LESS of Grant) then let's take it as another format and style that broadens the overall platform. The more playful give and take can be both entertaining and informative and I look forward to see how this new content OPTION develops.

  • V!

    Volatimothy !.

    16 5 2018 12:44

    7       1

    RV is experiencing some volatility in it's programming. Worth watching but it will take some time to adjust.

  • RM

    Richard M.

    16 5 2018 12:43

    7       2

    Well, for a first showing this wasn't too bad! I know RVTV is trying to fill out their expanded coverage (to try to become a full fledged finance channel). Now not every show can be a big hit (but can still be a good show). The concept of "knock-on effects" was a new one to me when Raoul first introduced it years ago and it definitely started to make me think about second and third order effects (per Howard Marks). I think we should give this show a chance to grow as it could introduce many interesting ideas as it relates to knock-on effects. Just my 2 cents! :-)

  • RL

    Radu L.

    16 5 2018 11:55

    3       1

    first I wanted to say "pretty useless" but then I realised "pretty" was usless in the context...

  • DW

    Daniel W.

    16 5 2018 11:17

    78       3

    Where can I apply for having "my old Realvision" back?

    The one that had trade recommendations only when there was an opportunity.

    The one where I watched EACH video from the beginning to the very end and not skipping through them and wasting my time.

    The one where people like Grant Williams as interviwer took the time to make most out of exceptional guests and interviews were not cut to 30min because it is "30 min monday".

    Really, I don't think I like where this is going. I am happy to pay the old price for 2 to 4 exceptional videos per month instead of skipping through all this mediocre stuff.

  • TJ

    Terry J.

    16 5 2018 09:56

    3       9

    Worth watching just to hear Alex's take on Charie Munger's recent comment that trading bitcoin is analagous to trading baby brains!!

  • EL

    Erik L.

    16 5 2018 09:34

    4       1